New to tent camping, need ideas for possible Sun n fun

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4RNB

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4RNB
I have not been flying much due to painting, plane due back this week. Happened to catch that there is a great aviation get together in Florida next month! Spouse is travelling and I might head south for a few days. I'm looking for ideas to consider for staying on airport. What make or break things do I need? I'm large, not going to sleep in the plane. I have a military style cot, willing to go open air but want to be better prepared. Bug spray, cooler, food, maybe a solar charger. What works for you? Zero adult camping experience. What does not work? What tie downs?

Thanks.
Links to old discussion welcome.
 
I made my own tie downs. Some angled aluminum plus spikes. Worked well at OSH.

My experience at OSH is that condensation will form on top of the wings and drip off the trailing edge. If you set your tent beneath the wings expect to hear that dripping on top of the tent all night. Scope out the nearest shower facilities and try to figure the slow times. Getting fuel might take longer than expected.

The pix are from FLD.
IMG_0569.jpegIMG_0570.jpeg
 
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This is a thread for Osh but most of the info applies to SnF. https://eaaforums.org/showthread.ph...-camping-at-Oshkosh-how-do-I-do-this-properly

If you haven’t already, familiarize yourself with the SnF aircraft camping rules: https://flysnf.org/camping/aircraft-camping/

I would not forgo a tent. Other things to bring are sunglasses, a hat, towels, 2 pairs of shoes, shower shoes/flip flops, and a dry bag/trash bags to put things in to keep them dry unless you store everything in your plane, and your credit card.

Invest in or make good tie-downs. Do not, repeat do not use those dog leash screw-in types.
 
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If you can, go to a camping supply that caters to backpackers (e g. REI, not the outdoor aisle at Walmart) and tell them what you want to do. Tent, sleeping bag, air mattress. I usually forgo the tent when backpacking but I use one for privacy when camping at fly -ins.
 
Hilton makes a great tent, so does Hyatt.
I was stationed at Eglin, back in the day. I don't sleep on the ground in Florida.
Everything else is like packing for a weekend away in Florida. Sunblock, bug spray, body spray, and some clothing. The amount depends on how long you stay, how bad you are willing to smell, and how much your plane can
carry. :cornut:
 
Matthew said:
My experience at OSH is that condensation will form on top of the wings and drip off the trailing edge. If you set your tent beneath the wings expect to hear that dripping on top of the tent all night.
Click to expand...
So many people setup under their wing and end up with this problem. I've never understood it. The other one is people who throw a tarp over their wing and stake it down as a sunshade. It provides shade, for sure, but is attaching a sail to your control surfaces really want you want to do? That's gonna put a lot of force onto things!
 
Matthew said:
I made my own tie downs. Some angled aluminum plus spikes. Worked well at OSH.

My experience at OSH is that condensation will form on top of the wings and drip off the trailing edge. If you set your tent beneath the wings expect to hear that dripping on top of the tent all night. Scope out the nearest shower facilities and try to figure the slow times. Getting fuel might take longer than expected.

The pix are from FLD.
View attachment 126785View attachment 126786
Click to expand...
How are the shower facilities at SnF? Also, how long are the stakes you use?
 
4RNB said:
I have not been flying much due to painting, plane due back this week. Happened to catch that there is a great aviation get together in Florida next month! Spouse is travelling and I might head south for a few days. I'm looking for ideas to consider for staying on airport. What make or break things do I need? I'm large, not going to sleep in the plane. I have a military style cot, willing to go open air but want to be better prepared. Bug spray, cooler, food, maybe a solar charger. What works for you? Zero adult camping experience. What does not work? What tie downs?

Thanks.
Links to old discussion welcome.
Click to expand...
Open air? Meaning no tent? You're almost guaranteed to get wet. This is in Florida, after all, it rains a lot.
 
RussR said:
Open air? Meaning no tent? You're almost guaranteed to get wet. This is in Florida, after all, it rains a lot.
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Not to mention the State bird is the mosquito. Bug spray will only protect for so long.
 
Matthew said:
I made my own tie downs. Some angled aluminum plus spikes. Worked well at OSH.

My experience at OSH is that condensation will form on top of the wings and drip off the trailing edge. If you set your tent beneath the wings expect to hear that dripping on top of the tent all night. Scope out the nearest shower facilities and try to figure the slow times. Getting fuel might take longer than expected.

The pix are from FLD.
View attachment 126785View attachment 126786
Click to expand...
Do you have photos of the bottom part of the tie down? This looks great as the one I have is just huge and heavy.
 
Definitely get a tent. I have a REI backpacking 3 person tent that’s extremely lightweight but after traveling it’s just too small. I don’t need to skimp out on weight/size that much especially when throwing it in the baggage compartment.

I went on Amazon and got a 6 person tent for $100, I checked my order history and that exact tent is not there anymore but I did short list about 3 of them around this price for 6 person tents. Have not used it yet but I did set it up in my living room and was huge and easy to set up and put away.


Get some padding to sleep on, light sleeping bag, extra pillows, I would get a solar battery pack, although you can get by without it, those are convenient to have to keep your electronics charged. Extra towels, dry / laundry bags, water and water or at least some empty jugs for your water, snacks or energy bars just in case you get low on energy. Everything else you can buy if you need it (food, Uber to a Walmart or the likes, etc).
 
mandm said:
Do you have photos of the bottom part of the tie down? This looks great as the one I have is just huge and heavy.
Click to expand...
Rcmutz said:
How are the shower facilities at SnF? Also, how long are the stakes you use?
Click to expand...

If I were to do this all over again I’d consider angle iron similar to what you’d use to hang a garage door opener. Check to see how strong it feels. Then just cut to length and file down the rough edges. I got a toolbag small enough to hold three sets, 3x20’(?) lengths of rope, and a hammer.
IMG_0488.jpeg
 
I made basically the same set as @Matthew, and then modified a little later on.
Edit: I did use the slotted angle iron as mentioned by Matthew above. It seems strong enough.

The stakes are 18"L x 1/2" dia. steel, and have either a J-hook at the top, or a T.
The J-hooks have an 8"L x 3"W x 1/16" diamond shaped plate welded to them for more pull resistance in wet/soft ground.
Later on, I questioned whether a piece of the angle iron welded to the stake would have been better, just in case the plates get turned sideways in the ground when being pulled. But with the J-hook top, probably not a major concern.
Also wondered if just a piece of angle iron sharpened at one end could be used instead of stakes. Or a couple of them with a chain or maybe a bolt between them. Could be hard to drive in unless it's soft ground, but that's also when they would be most needed.

I made 1 set for each wing and 1 for the tail = total of 6 J's, 6 T's. That lets me use various combinations of stakes per tiedown depending on ground condition.
I always use at least 1 T per set, just to make sure the angle iron doesn't work free from the J-hooks. It would likely have to get buckass crazy for that to happen, but I do it nonetheless.

I haven't re-weighed with the plates added, but the whole kit weighed in at 10lbs, all steel, not including rope.
Probably 2-3 lbs for the plates, So, not a lightweight solution, but that's not really what I was going for at the time. I had most of the materials and was in a hurry. I'm sure aluminum could be used, at least for some of it.
If any of the engineers on here want to chime in, It'd be great to have some info on strength equivalents/sizes or thoughts.

I used the kit at Oshkosh in 2021 with only 2 J stakes on each set, and at that time had no diamond plates welded on. It held fine during two of the storms that flattened some tents. The ground seemed pretty dry below the surface. So with the diamond plates added, and/or an extra stake, it should work good.

I don't have a very good picture handy, but a crude drawing:
1710697413182.png
At Osh (not a good view)
1710699432194.png

Also, in the video above posted by @rwellner98, two moment's (4:22, and 4:30), illustrate driving the stakes at angles, which I feel is important, but I've seen others drive them vertically. Especially bad if close to the plane.

1710698571427.png1710698250888.png

Haven't been to SNF yet, but seems to be a similar list as OSH so far.
I'll add Ibuprofen and an energy drink to the list. It's a magic combo after a long morning of walking.

And don't forget the gust lock :lightning:
 
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The one thing I would add for the next time I go to OSH is a small camp chair, small enough to fit in a light backpack. Load water bottles, cell phone battery packs, and that small chair and head out for the day. At OSH (I’ve not been to SnF) there’s always something flying, and it’s really nice to have a chair with you so you can have a place to sit and watch.

Oh, yeah, and some sort of reflective material to tie onto the tie down ropes so I don’t keep tripping over them at night even though I know where they are, I have a flashlight, and I tell myself not to trip.
 
mandm said:
Get some padding to sleep on, light sleeping bag, extra pillows
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:yeahthat:

From my experience the ground at SnF is harder than most :yes:. You will appreciate having an air mattress to put under a nice sleeping bag along with a good pillow ...
 
@Salty camped at SNF last year and might have some advice.

I prefer to drive the 45 minutes to my house and sleep comfortably.
 
I live about 15 miles away and go every year. I've camped in the area many times, though never at SnF.

Rainy season has not started yet, so unless a front comes through, it is usually dry. Temperature is warm to hot in the day, pleasant at night. Sleeping bags are overkill unless lightweight.

Biggest threats are sun, dehydration, and mosquitoes. Bring multiple means of sun protection. Sunscreen, wide brim hats, long sleeve fishing shirts, and some means of shade. Wally world sells screen rooms and canopies. Plan to take them down in case of a storm, but in mild weather they are great.

Bugs come out about 30 minutes before the sun goes down. Best defense is a screen room, with bug spray as backup. If it rains, bugs for a few days after will be voracious. If it has been dry for a while, you might not even notice them.

Drink plenty of water. CamelBaks, refillable water bottles, coolers, etc are all helpful to encourage that.

Clothes get pretty skanky from the sweat, so bring plenty of changes. Bring 2 pair of socks per day. Dry feet after a long day are quick relief.
 
My tent is canvas and weighs 120lbs. Probably a little heavy for snf. But it held up great to 30 minutes of 3/4" hail and daily thunderstorms in New Mexico last year
 
Ear plugs. Amazon flies in all hours day/night.

Early morning showers to beat the rush, take something to hang your towel on to dry during the day.

Familiarize yourself with the NOTAM, take it with you with frequencies written on your leg board. The Cake it references should be called a cupcake, is very small.

Stage yourself an hour or two away and call the KLAL ATIS for entry times. Monitor the ATIS and have fuel for an extra 30 mins or so of delay to enter the field. An alternate airport would be smart as well. Watch your route as well, the further East the more swamps and less available places for a forced landing. I think the alligators would beat EMS to most of the swamps there.

Live ADSB - visibility can get low, you'll need it to hold around the lakes and join the arrivals line.

Its a friggen madhouse when everything gets delayed and pretty stressful if you're solo.

Set your tent underneath the wing with evening shade. There was one cold night last year, I'd trade the sleeping bag for a microfiber blanket to save the weight.

The trolleys get scarce much after dark, its a hike to The Island but they sell most of the things you'll forget and have decent food until fairly late.
 
You didn't mention the type of airplane (useful load being the important factor). If you need to save on weight, go for the backpacking tent. If you have lots of excess load capability, I'd go for something you can stand up in, maybe from Coleman if you don't expect to be a regular camper, or something at the REI/Cabela's level if you expect to be a repeat camper.
 
keen9 said:
You didn't mention the type of airplane (useful load being the important factor). If you need to save on weight, go for the backpacking tent. If you have lots of excess load capability, I'd go for something you can stand up in, maybe from Coleman if you don't expect to be a regular camper, or something at the REI/Cabela's level if you expect to be a repeat camper.
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If I go this year it would just be me so useful load and gear not an issue, could even take someone else. I'm not aware of allotted space so not sure how big of a tent to consider.
 
If it's shorter than one wing, and the tail, you're gtg.

I used to think I'd camp all week, but I have yet to make two nights. One night is enough to remind me that one night is enough. I try to stay for the night air show.
 
keen9 said:
You didn't mention the type of airplane (useful load being the important factor). If you need to save on weight, go for the backpacking tent. If you have lots of excess load capability, I'd go for something you can stand up in, maybe from Coleman if you don't expect to be a regular camper, or something at the REI/Cabela's level if you expect to be a repeat camper.
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SnF (and oshkosh) have guest services that you can ship things to, so you don't have to fit everything in your plane.

flysnf.org

Guest Services - SUN 'n FUN Aerospace Expo

Guest Services ATMs and Check Cashing Automatic Teller Machines: There are several ATMs on the site. Please see convention map for specific locations. Check Cashing is available for Florida Air Museum and EAA members at the Finance Office located at the Main Admissions Plaza. Hours of operation...
flysnf.org flysnf.org
 
Like most things in camping you can have lightweight, durable and inexpensive. Pick 2.

I have hundreds of nights with 2 people sleeping in a 4 person backpacking tent that weighs 6 pounds. REI is a great place to shop.
 
Initial Fix said:
Like most things in camping you can have lightweight, durable and inexpensive. Pick 2.

I have hundreds of nights with 2 people sleeping in a 4 person backpacking tent that weighs 6 pounds. REI is a great place to shop.
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You make a good point. When selecting tents take the printed tent capacity and divide by 2—that’s the practical capacity.
 
I have a solar charger that I leave leaning against the plane's main gear while I'm wandering the grounds all day. I use the solar charger to recharge one of those "battery bricks". When I get back to my campsite at dusk, I use the battery brick to recharge my phone and my tablet. I'm particular about the coffee I drink, so I take a small camp stove and use an AeroPress (Aeropress on Amazon) infusion coffee maker. I also carry a battery operated whisk so I can froth my milk and have a morning latte. Once I have my latte, I can deal with other people and enjoy the show. I buy ice almost every day from the ice vendor and replenish the ice in my camp cooler. Having a cold drink waiting for you when you get back to your camp site is heaven. You can see my camp cooler in the shade under my plane's belly. I also carry a stainless steel vacuum thermos in a side pouch on my day pack. I fill it with ice in the morning and usually add water. I refill it multiple times each day. It's easier for me to stay hydrated if the water I'm drinking is cold. I really hate drinking warm water, and you'll need to drink a lot in the Florida heat. I prefer low profile tents to the tall ones you can stand up in. When the winds pick up, those tall tents tend to either blow away, or break their poles and collapse. There is at least one nasty thunderstorm each year at both AirVenture and Sun-N-Fun. The next day, the dumpsters all around the site will be filled with torn and broken tall tents. My low profile mountaineering tent has never leaked, or had trouble dealing with the high winds in thunderstorms. If you use your cot (I also sleep on a cot) make sure it will fit through the door of the tent you are buying. You might have to assemble the cot inside the tent after the tent is set up. N40.jpg
 
1). Tie downs: The video in post #2 was interesting and informative. While the tests did not simulate the kind of cyclical loads likely to be encountered as the airplane rocks and yaws in strong, gusty winds, or the effectiveness of the anchors in different types of soil, it does give us a reasonable idea of which design might work best. I made a set very similar to that described in the EAA pub linked in post #4, using 3/8" x 18" aluminum rods instead of steel. They worked well enough, but were never called-upon to endure gusts over about 30 kts. Don't overlook the rope--make certain that the WORKING LOAD rating of the rope you use is at least equivalent to your estimate of the holding capacity of the tie-down (working load can be as low as 15% of the maximum tensile strength). A knot in the rope can reduce its strenght by as much as 50%. Nylon rope is a good choice due to the way that it stretches under load, which acts as a buffer between the moving airplane and the immovable (we hope) tie down. Use new rope that has not been abraded or previously exposed to sunlight and the elements.

2). Tent: I have several tents, from a Nemo ultra-lightweight backpacking tent to a Coleman 6-person dome with 6' headroom (also recommended by keen9, #22). The Nemo only goes on biycle and motorcycle trips, whereas I bought the the Coleman specifically for 2 people to sleep in at OSH. The Coleman is much larger and heavier, but the additional size and weight are worth it if your airplane can accomodate it. It's nice to have room to stand up, store gear, and enjoy a water and mosquito-proof refuge when the rain keeps on raining. The Coleman has weathered several impressive thunderstorms without leaking and has proved durable.

3). Sleeping: I agree with Daleandee in post #17. A good night's sleep makes the show much more enjoyable. I fought against my minimalist instincts and learned to use a good air mattress, along with a sleeping bag suitable for expected temperatures and a comfy pillow. Ear plugs recommended by FancyG in post #21 are helpful.

4). I have a gear list that I will PM you.
 
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Matthew said:
I made my own tie downs. Some angled aluminum plus spikes. Worked well at OSH.
Click to expand...
I use Storm Force, which are pretty much the factory version of the ones you made! I like them a lot. I wouldn't recommend the Claw, even though many people swear by them. I've seen them break.

rwellner98 said:
So many people setup under their wing and end up with this problem. I've never understood it. The other one is people who throw a tarp over their wing and stake it down as a sunshade. It provides shade, for sure, but is attaching a sail to your control surfaces really want you want to do? That's gonna put a lot of force onto things!
Click to expand...
I love the idea of having that much shade, but agree that I've seen some planes take a beating when the storms come through. I wouldn't want the tarp rubbing on my paint, much less damaging the control surfaces.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I use Storm Force, which are pretty much the factory version of the ones you made! I like them a lot.
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I was looking around at various tie-down designs, including the DIY claw-style from EAA. I had access to a machine shop and material so I just cut to length, punched some holes, then went to Home Depot for the rest of the parts. I don't know if I broke any sort of patent laws, and I haven't done any pull-tests. I have used them to tie down a 10'x20' pop-up tent and they held it down tight even during that strong TS and heavy gust front last Sep at a bbq contest. Even though the tent legs actually did get up in the air, the tie downs kept it from twisting and deforming. I sized the working strength of the rope to match the weight of the airplane. I can't remember the exact numbers, but I can probably look it up. It's a nylon double-braided, but I can't remember if it's 1/2" or 5/8". After looking it up - the rated working strength is 1500lb and 3000lb. I probably got 5/8". The weak link is going to be at the tie-down itself and how well the soil anchors will hold. But setting it out so there's approx a 45 deg angle on the rope is the strongest. That also ends up as, potentially, a pretty good tripping hazard at the tail.
 
"Zero adult camping experience" My advice is buy a cheap tent and try it out. There's a good chance you might just want to toss it in a dumpster rather than pack it up and bring it back home again.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I love the idea of having that much shade, but agree that I've seen some planes take a beating when the storms come through. I wouldn't want the tarp rubbing on my paint, much less damaging the control surfaces.
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Yeah, good point. I usually mention that also, but forgot this time. Even ignoring the control surfaces issue (which plausibly could kill you), is there an amount of shade that's worth a 30k paint job!
 
Silvaire said:
"Zero adult camping experience" My advice is buy a cheap tent and try it out. There's a good chance you might just want to toss it in a dumpster rather than pack it up and bring it back home again.
Click to expand...

And practice setting it up BEFORE you leave for SnF!
 
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