New Pilot, Trip over the Appalachian Mountains.

Personally, I have not found FF to be of a whole lot of use, and I've been using it a lot lately on long cross country flights. Really, so far, the only thing I've gotten out of it is being more comfortable working with ATC. Every time I've needed something, they've not been able to help, and they pretty much have made me route around any airspace just as I would have had to without them. As a VFR pilot, it's still pretty much up to you to navigate and avoid weather and traffic. Every advisory I've ever gotten I already knew about before they gave it to me. I use it anyway on long flights, but I often wonder why (when I'm flying into podunk airports). I do have to admit it was useful to have been in the system as I approached and landed at Addison last month. In crazy airspace it's worth it.

I do recommend the OP use it on this flight, and continue to on long flights until you understand it well and are comfortable with it. Then you can decide for yourself.
 
Kenny Lee said:
Hey guys. Ya’ll may think this thread dumb, but I know enough to be concerned. I am based in Union City Tn (KUCY) with friends in Hickory NC (KHKY). I plan to fly there and visit. I know the Appalachians aren’t the Rockys, but remember I am a flat lander. I have high water marks on my ankles. I have never flown over the mountains.

A direct route would put me over Nashville and Knoxville airspace. I can easily divert North or South of those airspaces. Or would you simple fly over them? Knoxville ceiling is 5,000 and Nashville is 4600.

What about the typical weather over the mountains? I have visited there and seen plenty of clouds. Is there a better time of day to cross? Does the weather patterns change in the mountains quicker than the flat lands? Winds stronger? Turbulence worse? I would appreciate any feed back as I plan this trip. No date yet.
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What makes you skittish about Knoxville/Nashville airspace? Why not just call the tower and request flight through their airspace, giving direction and altitude? "Knoxvile Tower, Buzzbomb 2345X requesting overflight east to west at (altitude)." Although tower airspace nominally extends 4000 feet above field elevation, the controllers in the cab don't much care what happens higher than 2500' AGL. In most cases, they have a Letter of Agreement with Approach Control or Center ceding the top 1500 feet to them, so if you are on flight following with Center or Approach you can steam right through the D airspace; they are supposed to coordinate with the tower on the landline (if you are not sure, when on FF ask "Am i cleared through Knoxville airspace?"

Bob Gardner
 
7,500 AVL area to TRI on a windy day and only light turb. 7,500 generally works for the most part. Anything below that with 25 kt surface winds will be sporty. If you’re familiar with HEMS tool, I suggest looking at that to see what the valleys (fog) are doing and it’ll overlay AIRMET / SIGMETs and PIREPs for turb as well. If it’s a personal flight and I see several MOD reports above 7,500, then usually I’m not going. Not worth getting bounced around for a $100 burger.
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Salty said:
Personally, I have not found FF to be of a whole lot of use
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This.

I don't mean to sound disrespectful. Last time I used flight following I saw what appeared to me to be a C-130 off to my right, same altitude and same direction but 4 or 5 miles away. I kept a close eye on it and it turned out to be a army green Cessna Skymaster crossing from my right to my left, same altitude with no relative movement, and less than a mile from me.

I pulled and did a climbing right turn hoping no one was in loose formation with the Skymaster and passed behind and above the flight path.

I realize that see and avoid is my responsibility, and that FF depends on load basis, but just a little warning would have been nice.

So IFR it is at night.
 
Flying through the BNA class C is a no brainer. We've gotten permission to just tool around downtown sightseeing. Transiting is even easier.
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Westerners scoff at Eastern mountains, but there's way more water in the East, thus far more weather in Eastern mountains. Do treat them with respect.I've had trouble every time I've flow over those rocks VFR.
 
Lots of responses and opinions which I appreciate. It does make it tough when one guy says YES and the next says NO. But, to be expected in a public forum.

As far as never using FF, I just haven’t. My CFI recommends I start using it. He plans to fly with me soon and help with it. It does sound fairly simple and I am sure I can do it. Some of ya’ll trained in class C or B airports. I started my training in a Podunk airport. I wound up my training in a slightly larger Podunk airport. I have flown into KPAH, a class D a handful of times. I flew into KMKL for the first time Friday afternoon. Most of the ATC guys have been great. A few spit it out like a machine gun, talking faster than I listen. Seems to help if I tell them I am a student, or new pilot. I do know radio communication with ATC is a huge part of flying. I will slowly work my way into it. There is no way I would fly into a class B or C airport right now. In time, I will.

Skittish? I would prefer to say I am cautious with it. Never entered that airspace, so I simply want to do it correct and professionally when I do. Much easier to plan for it while on the ground than it is to search for the clutch and reverse to get out.
 
Kenny Lee said:
Most of the ATC guys have been great. A few spit it out like a machine gun, talking faster than I listen. Seems to help if I tell them I am a student, or new pilot. I do know radio communication with ATC is a huge part of flying. I will slowly work my way into it. There is no way I would fly into a class B or C airport right now. In time, I will.
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I'm fortunate that my dad started flying when I was two, from a towered field, and my flight instructor was also a tower controller. Also I've been an Amateur Radio operator since I was 13yo. Radio communication doesn't intimidate me.

That said, I recall what someone else posted here. I'll paraphrase since I can't find the original post.

An airliner said: (Full drawl turned on). XYZ Center, do you hear how fast I'm talkin'? That's about how fast I can listen!

I had to laugh on that one.
 
A few weeks ago a fast talking ATC got me confused and I gilflirted his instructions...more than once. After takeoff, as I was on my way..he radioed me and demanded I let him know when I am out of “HIS” airspace.

I don’t think he was trying to say he’d miss me.
 
Kenny Lee said:
A few weeks ago a fast talking ATC got me confused and I gilflirted his instructions...more than once. After takeoff, as I was on my way..he radioed me and demanded I let him know when I am out of “HIS” airspace.

I don’t think he was trying to say he’d miss me.
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Next time respond to every radio call doing your best Marlee Matlin impression. :D
 
@Kenny Lee - Sound like you have a great setup and a great attitude :)

Other than an attempted request to get into the Bravo once during training (which would have been Flight Following) neither of my CFI's did it. So I made a point of making every cross country with FF just to get used to it. After about 5 times I started using it for flights around the Bravo or destination airports under the Bravo. As of now I probably get cleared into the Bravo about 60% of the time and even right over the Minneapolis airport a few times. I never been refused Flight Following but I can see it happening if something is busy. Read Bob's book. Filter through a couple of YouTube videos and learn your initial call and all will be well.

I look at it this way. On Flight Following they know your destination and are keeping an eye on you. You are always just one simple mic click away from talking to incredibly helpful people if you have a problem. Imagine flying with your wife and just tracking Unicom's and you have a problem. If you had time at all, you would have to configure a radio for 121.5 while dealing with the emergency. Meanwhile someone on Flight Following has already established a good working communication with ATC - before the problem. You could actually be talking while looking for a field. That first communication could be done higher up where it has a better chance of being received. Yes, you should fly the plane (aviate, navigate, communicate) but being on Flight Following makes that so much easier to do.

If I am flying locally or in a spot where ATC can't be reached I have my first COM flip-flip set with 121.5 as the alternate. In a emergency I can just flip it in (one button press) and talk while doing other things. Not sure if anyone would hear...hope so, maybe a big ole jet airliner :)

Re: Clouds. I would suggest taking a few flights and work up to being comfortable above Few and Scattered. I am not saying to violate any IFR's or do something stupid. But rather just progress up a bit at a time. My first CFI did a bit of this with me which was awesome. Now, as long as forecasts are good I will go above few and usually above scattered...to a degree. The best is usually a summer evening flight where you might start out above scattered and then they clear off as you fly. Or if you destination is skies clear but you start off scattered. But I also only do this with Flight Following. Even honoring VFR cloud clearances its nice to know ATC can talk to you if a big/fast plane might be ripping up through the clouds.
 
Kenny Lee said:
A few weeks ago a fast talking ATC got me confused and I gilflirted his instructions...more than once. After takeoff, as I was on my way..he radioed me and demanded I let him know when I am out of “HIS” airspace.

I don’t think he was trying to say he’d miss me.
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Kenny, this is hard to put into practice, but when you do life talking to ATC will be much easier. And that is don't give an F if they give you attitude.

Don't ever say ok to something you don't understand, even if it takes five tries back and forth to figure it out. Don't let them rattle you. Almost all the controllers I talk to are professional and very helpful. Sometimes they are having a bad day, nobody cares, your job is to extract what you need out of them, and there are things they need to hear from you too. Don't antagonize them, but don't back down either if you don't understand or they don't understand what you want.

The AIM is pretty good at spelling out what they need from you. Be short and concise. Instead of calling in with "Podunk tower, bo 1234, we are over here next to the smokestack, about 8 north east, I would like to land, I have the weather, ahh, I think it's Bravo and ah...… yeah, that's it." Keep it short and concise "Podunk tower, Bo 1234, 8 north east, Bravo, land." It really helps. Also, even though you have your license, don't be afraid to say "Student Pilot" if you are having trouble. Most of all, don't worry about pleasing them, try to be professional, but make sure you get what you need and understand what they are giving you before you agree to it.
 
Also remember, some towers don't have radar, so the only way they know where you are is by your description and when you report to them where you are, don't forget those calls.
 
Sinistar said:
I never been refused Flight Following but I can see it happening if something is busy.
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I think I can only remember being refused once (actually I wasn't refused because I knew better than to ask in this case). We were coming back into the Denver area -- along with everyone else -- after the eclipse; we'd flown into KTOR to watch it since that was in the totality path. On the way back someone called and asked for flight following; the center controller laughed a bit and said "there is no way that's happening any time soon." They said that was by far the busiest they'd seen that airspace---ever.
 
Center refused me flight following during the eclipse 2 years ago. Can’t say I blamed them.

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deyoung said:
I think I can only remember being refused once (actually I wasn't refused because I knew better than to ask in this case). We were coming back into the Denver area -- along with everyone else -- after the eclipse; we'd flown into KTOR to watch it since that was in the totality path. On the way back someone called and asked for flight following; the center controller laughed a bit and said "there is no way that's happening any time soon." They said that was by far the busiest they'd seen that airspace---ever.
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I've been ignored a few times. The last time was by Boston Center near Keene, weather was closing in and I was VFR with a clear path to BED. She had a lot of traffic deviating, probably to where I was so I guess she was busy.
 
I read a story about an airmail pilot who had to fly over the Appalachians at night. He was worried because it seemed like every time he was in the middle of nowhere, with no airports or open fields anywhere, his plane's engine would start to sputter. Another pilot told him to take a flask of whiskey with him and take a sip every time the engine sputtered. So he did. Every time the engine sputtered or felt rough, he took a sip of whiskey. He arrived without any engine problems or whiskey.
 
Did a short 52 mile XC out and back today, and got flight following from Binghamton approach, Boston Center, and Syracuse approach, all uniformly helpful, friendly, and useful. Have no idea why more folks don't take advantage of the service.
 
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