[NA]More "defective out of box; buyer must pay" bullNA]

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
20,772
Location
west Texas
Display Name
Display name:
Dave Taylor
I am so pzzed! Even if I am wrong and need to 'be told', I appreciate having you guys here to rant to (or at)!
This month's "big company swindle" is about a home hot water recirculating pump I bought from an authorized dealer.
Ordered 9th arrived 14th noon, installed that night, fully in accordance with instructions on the company's website including torques with a calibrated torque wrench.
Turn on the water and the %&!*# thing is pouring out water from a factory joint.
Probably a missing or defective o-ring or gasket or housing mechanical defect. Anyway look at the video. I cannot think of any way that installation could damage that part of the pump.
See the description below the YT above for how I did not preload the pipes or anything; it was a direct replacement and no heat was applied.
The dealer says they will apply for a warranty claim but don't get in a hurry (12 days) AND I WILL HAVE TO PAY TO HAVE A NEW ONE SHIPPED AND I WILL HAVE TO PAY TO HAVE THE DEFECTIVE ONE RETURNED!!
WITAF!!!!

Any reputable company is going to a) apologize b)promptly ship me a replacement at their expense c) issue a call tag for their original POS pump.

Amex dispute submitted.

(Anyone remember my lengthy thread from 16 mo ago where Dell gave me absolute Hell about a NEW laptop that had a defect....then their tech bricked it in a remote session, so I was supposed to pay them to bring it back to life, then fix the original problem?!)

/exasperation


 
You broke it, Dave. Admit it. You used that big Canadian hammer on it.
 
I whacked the living **** out of it after it leaked like that, that's for sure. In my mind.
 
did you use a left handed monkey wrench to tighten her up?
 
Did u try tightening the 4 allen bolts? Its a big o ring set into the case separate from motor. I always use a taco or grundfos.
 
I put a wrench on the allen screws and they are tight. Did not check torque but that does not appear to be the problem.
 
I have no way of knowing if it was made by a $0.50/hr "employee" (slave) or just made stateside on a Friday afternoon.
 
So much of that. I feel your pain. seems like everything I buy either quits shortly, or is defective right out of the box. Just in the last three days, i have taken back a WEMO smart switch that was defective out of the box, and sent back another one that quit in 2 months. Replaced some smoke alarms in a couple houses. 2 out of 8 defective right out of the box.
Water heater at a rental was replaced a bit over a year ago. I was out of town when it leaked?????? So tenant had a local rip off outfit replace it. It was still under warrantee, but disposed of before I could prove that. I doubt the heater was leaking, but no way to prove it. The "plumber" who replaced it saw the install date, but replaced it anyway for a ridiculous price. It's constant, life is a battle..........................
On the positive side, WEMO was pleasant and fairly easy to deal with. The company that made the old water heater wanted to replace it. Very simple, take a picture of it with water under it and the valves to prove its not a valve.
Anyway, yes sorry to vent, but......................
 
Notrub said:
Did u try tightening the 4 allen bolts? Its a big o ring set into the case separate from motor. I always use a taco or grundfos.
Click to expand...
How about a Langstrom seven-inch Gangly wrench?
 
Ok so what did you do with the gasket?
 
frfly172 said:
Ok so what did you do with the gasket?
Click to expand...
I'm sure they will dream up some excuse to blame me for it.
I did not see it or touch it or heat it, torque the housing, drop it, look at it sideways; it did not even have hot water run past it. My fault. sigh.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
...Any reputable company is going to a) apologize b)promptly ship me a replacement at their expense c) issue a call tag for their original POS pump.

...
Click to expand...

Except for one from China...

I know this is no consolation, but looks like the last one went almost 24 years. This one went zero. So you're still averaging an even dozen. ;)

Seriously, that looks like a really bad piece of assembly. Almost like someone forgot the gasket or 'O'-ring completely.


upload_2020-12-16_16-42-53.png
 
Paying all the shipping costs is pretty much standard warranty terms.
 
GRG55 said:
Seriously, that looks like a really bad piece of assembly. Almost like someone forgot the gasket or 'O'-ring completely.
Click to expand...

I understand that the expectation is to get satisfaction from the company that took your hard earned money. But it might be just as easy (and save some aggravation) to remove the end of the pump and put in a proper gasket, or O-ring, with sealer, if needed, and stop the leak.

Still, I hate having to fix something I just bought.

A few years ago I was having an over-voltage issue with the airplane. Only happened a couple of times but I decided to replace the regulator. I bought a brand recommended by a guy that I respect and trust. After install, during ground run testing, the voltage looked correct on the gauge but my alternator off-line light was dimly lit. As I advanced the throttle the voltage would increase slightly but the alternator off-line lamp would get brighter. When I looked at the regulator I could see what appeared to be clear silicone leaking out of the back.

I called the company (it was USA made) and was told that on some applications the light coming on was normal. I was also told the leaking clear liquid would eventually stop. When I asked for a refund/exchange I was told that since I had had it for more than 30 days, and it was an electrical item that had been installed ... yep! :mad:
 
Clip4 said:
Paying all the shipping costs is pretty much standard warranty terms.
Click to expand...

They are using word games to dodge responsibility.
“Warranty” is for a product you bought, then failed some time later.
This device never did work; assembled wrong & defective out of the box.
 
Let me get back to you guys?
I have to go work on a NEW popular (& high quality) brand of home window that has an obvious manufacturing defect in one of the lower sash’s retraction mechanism; I am serious <dark, brooding cloud emoticon >
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
They are using word games to dodge responsibility.
“Warranty” is for a product you bought, then failed some time later.
This device never did work; assembled wrong & defective out of the box.
Click to expand...

Yeah I wouldn't call this a warranty item, this is a defect. I'd call it a return and demand a full refund and then some.
 
NoHeat said:
home hot water recirculating pump? what’s that?
Click to expand...

One of life's essentials. Hot water, immediately. At every hot water tap in the house.

It's a small electric pump on a loop throughout the house, starts and ends at the hot water tank.
 
K, .
Let'sgoflying! said:
They are using word games to dodge responsibility.
“Warranty” is for a product you bought, then failed some time later.
This device never did work; assembled wrong & defective out of the box.
Click to expand...

The warranty covers manufacturers defects. Sound like you had one.
 
I am genuinely surprised that companies still treat their customers so poorly. These days word of mouth travels quickly indeed. I am happy to report the makers of my airplane heater (who go by the horrid name of aircraft heaters.com) agreed to take mine back and refurbish it for a reasonable price. I have to pay to get it there and retrieve it, but that's only fair since I (actually my new partner) broke it.
 
Did you unplug it, wait 30 seconds and plug it back in?

Are the drivers up to date?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I am so pzzed! Even if I am wrong and need to 'be told', I appreciate having you guys here to rant to (or at)!
This month's "big company swindle" is about a home hot water recirculating pump I bought from an authorized dealer.
Ordered 9th arrived 14th noon, installed that night, fully in accordance with instructions on the company's website including torques with a calibrated torque wrench.
Turn on the water and the %&!*# thing is pouring out water from a factory joint.
Probably a missing or defective o-ring or gasket or housing mechanical defect. Anyway look at the video. I cannot think of any way that installation could damage that part of the pump.
See the description below the YT above for how I did not preload the pipes or anything; it was a direct replacement and no heat was applied.
The dealer says they will apply for a warranty claim but don't get in a hurry (12 days) AND I WILL HAVE TO PAY TO HAVE A NEW ONE SHIPPED AND I WILL HAVE TO PAY TO HAVE THE DEFECTIVE ONE RETURNED!!
WITAF!!!!

Any reputable company is going to a) apologize b)promptly ship me a replacement at their expense c) issue a call tag for their original POS pump.

Amex dispute submitted.

(Anyone remember my lengthy thread from 16 mo ago where Dell gave me absolute Hell about a NEW laptop that had a defect....then their tech bricked it in a remote session, so I was supposed to pay them to bring it back to life, then fix the original problem?!)

/exasperation


Click to expand...
Actually, most warranties require that the person return the device for repair or replacement; and I'm sure you knew that.
 
Daleandee said:
I heard that one years ago and agree ... there's no such thing as a hot water heater ...
Click to expand...
Normally I would agree with you, but... in THIS case, you're circulating hot water throughout the house, returning it to the tank where one would have to assume it's still at least somewhat hot. Therefore, the water heater would be heating both cold and hot water.

In fact, let's look at the operation of water heaters in non-recirculating installations. Normally it's full of water at roughly 130-ish degrees. You take a shower, run the dishwasher, or it just sits and radiates heat. Now the water in the tank, due to the influx of cold water or normal heat loss, dips below the thermostat setting. The water isn't COLD, it's still hot -- just not hot enough to be above the thermostat setting. Yet the flame kicks on and it gets heated further. Therefore, it's heating hot water.

One could argue that the only time it's not really a "hot water heater" is during the initial startup, or if the pilot has been out long enough for the whole tank to cool down.

Just being argumentative. :)
 
Daleandee said:
I heard that one years ago and agree ... there's no such thing as a hot water heater ...
Click to expand...
Well taking water that is already hot and heating to an even higher temperature is what most water heaters spend the majority of their service life doing so... :stirpot:
 
Are you heating the hot water, or are you heating the water to hot?
 
Man ... now it seems I'm really in hot water, or maybe it's time for a hot bath with some minerals in it! Been a long day ...

BTW ... if the heater is bringing the hot water back up to temperature then wouldn't it be called a reheater? :popcorn:

Starting to get that Rodney Dangerfield feeling!
 
Clip4 said:
K, .


The warranty covers manufacturers defects. Sound like you had one.
Click to expand...
Yup. If it’s not covered by the warranty, then it’s totally your problem. This is exactly what a warranty is for.
 
Life is full of similarities and comparisons.
I run a small business.
Yesterday my staff screwed up, ignored training and policy so client was sent out the door without important product.
I find out today what they did (plus that not one of the three took any steps to remediate the problem).
This involves a 70mi drive, about an hour and a half driving.
I could have made the buyer drive back to get it (leaving our problem on the customer's shoulders like the pump company is). But I didn't.
I loaded up during a busy morning (which btw started 2 hours before my employees were scheduled to work) and took care of the customer.
Customer got what they paid for without any additional expense or trouble.
(let's not forget that the pump is one thing but we have downtime and install/remove/ship/reinstall labor associated with it)
This could all boil down to me having an antiquated idea about how the business world should work. I get that.
 
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Not all small businesses would have handled the situation the way you did. Presumably that's part of why your customers choose your business instead of your competition. Perhaps its time to find a new pump company. Or at least craft an email to the current pump company informing them that you will no longer be their customer and why.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Life is full of similarities and comparisons.
I run a small business.
Yesterday my staff screwed up, ignored training and policy so client was sent out the door without important product.
I find out today what they did (plus that not one of the three took any steps to remediate the problem).
This involves a 70mi drive, about an hour and a half driving.
I could have made the buyer drive back to get it (leaving our problem on the customer's shoulders like the pump company is). But I didn't.
I loaded up during a busy morning (which btw started 2 hours before my employees were scheduled to work) and took care of the customer.
Customer got what they paid for without any additional expense or trouble.
(let's not forget that the pump is one thing but we have downtime and install/remove/ship/reinstall labor associated with it)
This could all boil down to me having an antiquated idea about how the business world should work. I get that.
Click to expand...
But guessing that the client is now more likely to return. Are you going to use the pump company again?
 
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