[NA] How to create a permanent archive?

Van Johnston

Van Johnston

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Van Johnston
TL;DR: I have an oral biography my mother made. It is currently on six CDs. What is the best way to "future proof" it so it survives advances in technology and is easily retrievable decades and centuries from now?

Long version: I've reached that stage in life where it is time to begin to de-clutter and let go and downsize. In my lifetime I've used or seen storage media go from punch cards (I even had a professor who claimed he wrote his dissertation on punch cards), to mag tape, to 5.25 and 3.5 inch floppies, HDD, USB drives, SD cards, CDs, and now the cloud. This past weekend I came across a box full of 3.5 inch floppies I've been saving for 20 years. Having lived this long without that data, I can probably live the rest of my life without it, so that's not a big deal. Then I came across the CDs with my mother's oral biography. I still have computers with CD drives; whether they will boot up and whether I have a compatible monitor is the question. So before CDs go the way of tape drives and 5.25 inch floppies I need move them to a media that is both long-lasting AND easily retrievable. I thought about the cloud, but that still relies on it being in someone's account, and that person being alive and able to share the files. I'd like this to be something that can be handed down from generation to generation.

I am thinking the best way is to transcribe it, print and bind enough copies to give one to every grandchild and great-grandchild, and hope one or more survives at least a century or two. Are there better solutions? Is there a better option than printed media? I realize even paper has a limited lifetime, but it will last longer than any electronic media I can think of.

Suggestions?

PS - Once I get this figured out, then I am thinking of donating the CDs to the library or historical society where my mother grew up. But they will have the same issue.
 
Get it transcribed and save it as multiple formats - PDF, Word, TIFF/JPEG, and also simply the raw ASCII text. As long as humans will communicate via binary means, ASCII text will be able to be converted into human-readable letters. It's how we figured out how to convert letters to 1s and 0s in the first place and isn't going anywhere.

Then download Musicbee or another music player and convert the audio from the CD to all the common audio file formats, since it's probably nice to have the version with her voice too, if possible. Just buy a USB DVD drive for like $30 so that you can use your current PC to do this. Or send me one copy and I'll do it for you.

Send them all to your family and keep local and cloud backups, and encourage your family members to do the same.

Print some copies on archival paper and keep them in a fire proof safe, and/or a safe deposit box if you want to pay for it.
 
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I’d say Google drive you can set access permissions after an extended period of you not accessing the account. But that is just one generation and up to the next to pass it on.
 
Oral history has worked well for some peoples
 
I think "permanent" is a loaded word.

Even thinking something like a legacy website that you pay up for 1000 years...won't be there in 1000 years. You could print it out and engrave it on titanium sheets, but even those will eventually disappear. Build a giant pyramid in the desert with a chamber in middle seems to be the best bet, but even that isn't permanent.

The best you can do is pass it on to later generations and hope someone cares enough to do the same.
 
bflynn said:
I think "permanent" is a loaded word.

Even thinking something like a legacy website that you pay up for 1000 years...won't be there in 1000 years. You could print it out and engrave it on titanium sheets, but even those will eventually disappear. Build a giant pyramid in the desert with a chamber in middle seems to be the best bet, but even that isn't permanent.

The best you can do is pass it on to later generations and hope someone cares enough to do the same.
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And even then, when the sun starts to exhaust its hydrogen, everything on earth is going to get incinerated.
 
EdFred said:
And even then, when the sun starts to exhaust its hydrogen, everything on earth is going to get incinerated.
Click to expand...

or when the andromeda galaxy has a head on collision with the milky way
 
eman1200 said:
or when the andromeda galaxy has a head on collision with the milky way
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Interestingly enough because of the distances between stars, most star systems will remain intact. The night sky will look completely different though.
 
EdFred said:
Interestingly enough because of the distances between stars, most star systems will remain intact. The night sky will look completely different though.
Click to expand...


ya, thanks ed


1720536727728.png
 
Archival paper. I've got floppy disks from the late 80s - less than 15% are readable. All technologies change. NASA/JPL has thousands of tapes that are unreadable because there are no parts to repair the tape drives. But all my written college notes that are even older - still readable, still useful.

Tape drives - those spinny boxes you see in all the SF movies.
 
I have no idea if this is a thing, but I wonder if some libraries or oral historians might want to archive the audio somewhere that would potentially be semi-future-proofed and backed up outside your family? That's if you're comfortable with others hearing your mother's audio and knowing any of those potentially personal details.

I would definitely print hard copies and save into as many formats as you can. Store them in the cloud (Google drive, Dropbox, etc) for sure, just as backup, but also keep USB thumb drives, CDs, and DVDs. Those will all eventually fail, though, but hopefully it would survive long enough for a few generations to potentially carry it forward.
 
Hard copies are of course the most reliable way to ensure that it will be accessible. But as for digital files, it isn't all bad either.

I have Word documents and other MS Office files on my computer that haven't been modified since the mid 90's. School papers and such. Yes, that's only about 30 years, but they are still accessible with current software. MS Office, of course, but also OpenOffice, which is what I use now instead.

For audio, I have mp3's that are from 25 years ago. Still playable using current software.

I know you weren't so much asking about the file format and such, but at least for the past 30 years, most software has been pretty backward-compatible with the established formats.

For storage of the files, though, you can't really rely on any one method. Instead, have multiple methods.
- Many cloud storage options are free up to a certain amount of storage. So at least do that. Send links to all your family members.
- Then also have the files on your computer, and include them in your backup. Then when you get a new computer, you keep copying them over. That's how I still have 30-year old files, through manual copying of them. (I mean, they're all just in a folder in My Documents, so it's virtually zero effort.)
- Create many copies of the files simply by widely distributing them. If you email the files to 20 family members, well now you have 20 copies out there on various accounts and hard drives. Guaranteed some of those family members never delete emails that they should, let alone ones they shouldn't. I still have emails that are 25 years old, and I expect I'll be able to access those for at least another 25 years.

You don't need to come up with a method that will work for all eternity, you just need to come up with a method that will last until it's time for you to pass them on to the next generation. After that, it's their "problem".
 
I think Russ has the right direction. Txt files from the 70's are still readable, and PDF files and MP3 files are also readable from the first versions. Those 3 formats, and JPG, are so ubiquitous that I think they'll always be readable as long as people have the technology to read digital files. Don't use encryption, digital rights management, or any proprietary format, except that PDF is fine. I'd keep them in mp3 format just so her voice will still be accessible. Voice recordings of ww2 vets are pretty interesting, compared to the text versions.

As far as the format for storing the files, Russ has that right, too. Make a bunch of copies and send them to everyone. Ask that they put them somewhere on the cloud, or back them up to their accounts online, or if small enough email them to themselves. With a bunch of kids and grandkids, there will be generations that keep them alive that way. The beautiful thing about digital data is that it can be copied forever without any loss. That's not true with any other format, especially paper.
 
Van Johnston said:
TL;DR: I have an oral biography my mother made. It is currently on six CDs. What is the best way to "future proof" it so it survives advances in technology and is easily retrievable decades and centuries from now?

Long version: I've reached that stage in life where it is time to begin to de-clutter and let go and downsize. In my lifetime I've used or seen storage media go from punch cards (I even had a professor who claimed he wrote his dissertation on punch cards), to mag tape, to 5.25 and 3.5 inch floppies, HDD, USB drives, SD cards, CDs, and now the cloud. This past weekend I came across a box full of 3.5 inch floppies I've been saving for 20 years. Having lived this long without that data, I can probably live the rest of my life without it, so that's not a big deal. Then I came across the CDs with my mother's oral biography. I still have computers with CD drives; whether they will boot up and whether I have a compatible monitor is the question. So before CDs go the way of tape drives and 5.25 inch floppies I need move them to a media that is both long-lasting AND easily retrievable. I thought about the cloud, but that still relies on it being in someone's account, and that person being alive and able to share the files. I'd like this to be something that can be handed down from generation to generation.

I am thinking the best way is to transcribe it, print and bind enough copies to give one to every grandchild and great-grandchild, and hope one or more survives at least a century or two. Are there better solutions? Is there a better option than printed media? I realize even paper has a limited lifetime, but it will last longer than any electronic media I can think of.

Suggestions?

PS - Once I get this figured out, then I am thinking of donating the CDs to the library or historical society where my mother grew up. But they will have the same issue.
Click to expand...
This is an interesting and borderline philosophical question.

... To start, I'll assume you don't have $50 million dollars handy to establish a dedicated endowment or entity whose mission will be to keep the memory and audio alive... That would solve a lot of issues relating to continuity...

I think the technological challenge is more-or-less straight forward. Getting into a digital format on the cloud (1-2 providers) and granting access to all your family members (or making it public) will provide persistence for a while. Even when digital formats inevitably evolve your audio files could evolve, too. Barring a morbid, catastrophic accident - that should diversify access a lot so there is no single (or couple points) of failure.

Losing the ability to access it in our digital cloud-connected world is, I think, a distant secondary concern to people losing the awareness or interest in it. Not out of disrespect but from the span of generations that separates them from the author. Even works written by then-popular authors or musicians will (usually) ultimately drift slowly into obscurity, and at some point eyes will read or ears will listen to them for the last time.

This audio will have the greatest impact with your family, of course. So if it were me? I'd record my own audio biography and include it with the series of my parent. In effect, memorialize your own life while lending your generational connection and create a stronger tether to the next generation, the one you leave behind. This generation will remember you, and by proxy may feel a stronger interest in carrying the torch. At a minimum I think there'd be a sort of poetic continuity to surviving family having both of them.

The historical society and local library may work but I think you run into the same issue. They'll be less incentivized to keep it accessible if it's never accessed, and building interest might be challenging outside your fam.

Regardless of which solution you choose I commend you for trying to memorialize your family member in the way they want to be remembered. I think there is no better way to honor a person. Good luck!
 
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I will investigate archival paper and re-consider cloud-based solutions for both the text and audio.

I see now a few points in my original post were unclear:

- Not trying to make this last in perpetuity; 100-200 years would suffice. I agree that descendants lose interest once there is no one left who knows someone who knows someone, if that makes sense. We have letters from my grandfather from the front in WW I that are treasures because I know the people who knew him, even though I never did. My kids only show a polite interest.
- The historical interest to someone who is not family is that she paints a vivid picture of growing up in a small town in the south during the depression, and then her young married life during WW II (moving around alot, rationing, etc). Once she is past WW II then I agree no one else would be interested.
- She doesn't reveal any skeletons and addresses the few sensitive, personal topics tastefully, so not worried about any public disclosure.

Thanks again.
 
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For a while, there was such an animal as "archive grade DVD's." News agencies used them to replace their microfiche.

A USB thumb drive will probably outlast the dinosours as long as they aren't accessed frequently. The limitation in storage length is going to be measured by technology, rather than physical storage media properties, these days.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
Losing the ability to access it in our digital cloud-connected world is, I think, a distant secondary concern to people losing the awareness or interest in it. Not out of disrespect but from the span of generations that separates them from the author. Even works written by then-popular authors or musicians will (usually) ultimately drift slowly into obscurity, and at some point eyes will read or ears will listen to them for the last time.
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Great discussion here, and a very insightful post. I am a digital archiver of photos, documents, videos, audio, etc. that are important to me and my family. I've been working on the technological solutions for long-term preservation and getting everything organized.

It's been good, but.. I have begun thinking about the same problem ArrowFlyer86 mentions here. Who is going to care about it? If I pass on at a young age, then I think my wife and family will be grateful. But beyond that, my children may take some interest in it, and that's about it. I realize that for the most part, the archive, and any documents I write, are for me.

Probably the best format that has a chance of being passed down and being of interest would be printing out pictures (or making a picture book) and storing them in multiple locations. Nobody is going to be that interested in the computer programs I wrote as a kid, or my written recollections of holidays as a child, or audio of us as kids. Realistically I need to be sharing these with people that might be interested now. That's likely to have the greatest impact.
 
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Clay/stone tablets. Only way to make them last forever. Even paper will degrade.

Joking aside, order the mature technology storage medium of the day and copy the digital files onto it. Keep the previous medium it was stored on. Research required storage conditions for the current medium and make sure they are met. For example, flash storage needs to be powered up to refresh the cells every now and then (depends on technology, SLC, MLC, and so on). Mechanical drives could use a power cycle every year to ensure bearings don't stick. Storage is also cheap, put your precious memories on 2-3 devices and store in different places.
Replace with new storage medium in 5-10 years. Keep the previous one.
 
Transcribing onto papyrus, sealing the documents in pottery jars, and burying the jars in Qumran caves has proven to be a long-lasting (though not permanent) solution, known to remain retrievable for ~2000 years.

Otherwise, storage in multiple formats kept in multiple locations, BUT it would be wise to have one or two designated "family archivists" who agree to keep track of formats and storage locations and to occasionally re-record the material onto new media and into new formats as they become available.
 
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Half Fast said:
Transcribing onto papyrus, sealing the documents in pottery jars, and burying the jars in Qumran caves has proven to be a long-lasting (thought not permanent) solution, known to remain retrievable for ~2000 years.
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So a much more modern technology than our aircraft engines?
 
Sac Arrow said:
A USB thumb drive will probably outlast the dinosours as long as they aren't accessed frequently. The limitation in storage length is going to be measured by technology, rather than physical storage media properties, these days.
Click to expand...
I doubt a USB thumb drive would be readable much beyond 10-15 years if left alone. I do agree with the second sentence… paper never goes out of style (though some paper and some inks suck for longevity).
 
Mark the files "confidential - not for export outside the united states" and put it on any internet based file share. In a year there will be copies you can find all over the world, and they'll be there forever.

I only half kid.
 
If you intend to use cloud, ensure that the facilities are independent. It's no use using two services if both are run out of the same building (which then burns down). You could get a multi-pack of USB drives fairly cheaply, then put the audio on those and hand them out to 'family archivists' in addition to a cloud service or two.
 
A bunch of people recommend reasonable solutions, but most (all?) recommend a single solution. I think a better solution is multi-pronged. Don't rely on any one thing.

Every time you get a new computer, tansfer the oral history to it and take five minutes to see if you think the format needs to be updated. You said oral history, so I'm assuming it's recordings of your mom talking. MP3/WAV/AAC are all great formats for preserving that kind of thing. May as well keep it in all three.

Then also put it on your favorite cloud services.

Then also put it on a USB hard drive that stays at someone elses house in case yours burns down.

The swiss cheese model applies to this problem also. You want to have multiple paths that have to be turned in order for the data to vanish.
 
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