Move over Icon, there's a new toy in town-

Dav8or

Dav8or

Final Approach
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Dave
Supposedly meets part 103 ultralight regs, so no medical, or pilot's license needed. Disassembles for transport, can float, little to no training required as it has loads of auto controls just like all the camera drones do, so you can take off, fly, hover and land as a novice. Lots of redundant systems and of course, if everything goes to hell, there's a parachute.

What could possibly go wrong??

The Opener Blackfly


And also-


I will say though that it is an impressive bit of engineering. Amazing what can be accomplished with enough drive and desire combined with almost unlimited funds.
 
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The company developing these, Opener, envisions the sky above your house filled with these. The end game is not a recreational toy, but a commuter vehicle to get to work. If there was ever a stretch to the spirit of the Part 103 rules, this would be it. The FAA certainly is going to have a lot on their plate going into the future.

Look forward to carbon fiber and electric motors raining down in your yard someday.
 
The immediate limitation to the FAR103 exemption is the 254 lb max empty weight considering battery technology and weight. Sure that battery tech and weight to power ration will improve, but can it be a viable "commute" vehicle under those restrictions? Doubtful.

But I have no doubt that this is the future and answer to the "flying cars". The FAA is already putting the infrastructure in place for these things to become reality outside the limitations of current regulations.
 
Dav8or said:
Supposedly meets part 103 ultralight regs
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I keep seeing that places, but it doesn't make sense given that the empty weight is 313lbs. That's 59lbs over weight, which doesn't seem like a lot until you realize is is 23%.
 
So it's too heavy for part 103, and has too many motors for LSA. Am I missing something, or would it not currently require at least a Private Pilot cert with multiengine rating to legally fly this thing?
 
Isn't empty weight defined as with only unusable fuel and oil on board? Since the fuel here is batteries, you take out the batteries, and come in under the empty weight. Then you add fuel (the batteries) and you.
 
EdFred said:
Isn't empty weight defined as with only unusable fuel and oil on board? Since the fuel here is batteries, you take out the batteries, and come in under the empty weight. Then you add fuel (the batteries) and you.
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That's an interesting take on it. I can see the logic there.
 
skier said:
I keep seeing that places, but it doesn't make sense given that the empty weight is 313lbs. That's 59lbs over weight, which doesn't seem like a lot until you realize is is 23%.
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I think they give the weight a pass because it's all electric. The 103 regs say 254 lbs dry and it also says the max fuel the aircraft can carry is 5 gallons. Well 5 x 6 = 30 lbs, so a fully fueled ultralight really weighs 284 lbs. The regs also make exception for safety equipment, so the weight of the parachute is not counted. At least this is my guess and it's only a guess.
 
DaleB said:
That's an interesting take on it. I can see the logic there.
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I could also see logic equating an uncharged battery to an empty fuel tank, and I don't think an uncharged battery is particularly lighter than a charged one... :D
 
Half Fast said:
I could also see logic equating an uncharged battery to an empty fuel tank, and I don't think an uncharged battery is particularly lighter than a charged one... :D
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The battery, like avgas, is also not part of the structure, and can be removed for charging or to swap for a full one if you don't want to wait.
 
My straight line commute to work is ~ 15 miles, would certainly be nice to fly there and back.
 
Posted this up a week-ish ago, granted the thread title was a little cryptic: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/larry-page-is-at-it-again.112223/

My favorite quote from the BBC article was

“But the regulations are ‘well you can’t do this, you can’t do that’. They don’t understand it.”

He added: “Now will they crash? Probably, but cars crash every day."

It's a neat looking "thing" with some alien qualities to it.. but 25 miles at 60 mph is not that impressive. Unless you live in a serious traffic area I don't see how this is at all feasible.. beyond just fantasy.

I would still take this instead
upload_2018-7-20_10-58-2.png
 
EdFred said:
Isn't empty weight defined as with only unusable fuel and oil on board? Since the fuel here is batteries, you take out the batteries, and come in under the empty weight. Then you add fuel (the batteries) and you.
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The weight of an empty battery would seem to me to be the weight of "unusable fuel".
 
Salty said:
The weight of an empty battery would seem to me to be the weight of "unusable fuel".
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But the battery isn't empty. All the physical components are still contained within it. Depleted isn't necessarily the same thing as empty.
 
Hank S said:
The battery, like avgas, is also not part of the structure, and can be removed for charging or to swap for a full one if you don't want to wait.
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So if I designed an LSA with a removable fuel cell that was intended to be removed from the aircraft for re-filling, could I remove it to satisfy the 1320lb weight limit?
 
Half Fast said:
So if I designed an LSA with a removable fuel cell that was intended to be removed from the aircraft for re-filling, could I remove it to satisfy the 1320lb weight limit?
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Maybe. As we have seen with the certification of the Icon A5, you clearly can argue your point to the FAA and they might grant it.
 
EdFred said:
But the battery isn't empty. All the physical components are still contained within it. Depleted isn't necessarily the same thing as empty.
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Only if it takes 24 hrs to taxi out
:biggrin:
 
DaleB said:
So it's too heavy for part 103, and has too many motors for LSA. Am I missing something, or would it not currently require at least a Private Pilot cert with multiengine rating to legally fly this thing?
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And is it Airplane-MultiEngine Land, or is it Powered Lift?
 
25 min endurance at 64 mph = well, about 25 miles with no wind.
 
It sure looks like something from science fiction movie.
Here is my take on this kind of flying machines for average Joe wants to use it every day for commute or what ever use : no matter how much technology advances, laws of physics will always be the same. There will be accidents and mishaps and that will quickly ruin the reputation of the manufacturer. Also there is large segment of society who is afraid of heights and they will never go or this type aerial vehicle.
 
The trouble with ICON, is that when they swarmed all over the Dornier S-Ray at Oshkosh, stealing all the dimensions .............they failed to make a good copy. Thus their complete failure so far, and their forthcoming demise.
 
kgruber said:
The trouble with ICON, is that when they swarmed all over the Dornier S-Ray at Oshkosh, stealing all the dimensions .............they failed to make a good copy. Thus their complete failure so far, and their forthcoming demise.
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I don't know about that. I was at OSH for a week and everyday I walked past the ICON tent there was a lot of buzz still:

GOPR1831.JPG

My wife loved it too. I can imagine there are a lot of non-aviation folks who will too!

I spoke to a sales rep and he said so far there are 10 that has been delivered to customers.
 
Velocity173 said:
Yeah but you could own half an Icon for only $225k with a small monthly fee. You can buy a completed one for only $389K...not sure how they jumped from $258K to that number. :confused:

https://www.iconaircraft.com/a5/own/fleet-access
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Yeah, I saw that a few days ago and nearly blew a fuse in my head trying to figure out how they can justify those partial ownership prices compared to full ownership. Any added value from them managing things is not worth anywhere near that much.
 
Conceptually it is a pretty cool idea. Be neat to see where it goes going forward. Wonder if the styrofoam box it comes in will have a few extra props so you can fix it quickly and keel flying :goofy:
 
benyflyguy said:
Conceptually it is a pretty cool idea. Be neat to see where it goes going forward. Wonder if the styrofoam box it comes in will have a few extra props so you can fix it quickly and keel flying :goofy:
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Yep and the wings are held on with rubber bands, so you can easily put it back together again!!
 
Can you just imagine the usual commute traffic maniac with one of these things? The outages from hitting power poles and mayhem striking overpasses, trees, and buildings?

Just wait until a gusty cross wind day.
 
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