Love At First Sight

Bob Noel said:
Should we start a pool on when Jay starts wanting something faster?

:)
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Heh. We are already looking at speed mods. :D

My delivery pilot, trying to beat weather and darkness last night, opened her up between Lacrosse, WI and his home base, Crystal, MN.

He showed 177 knots groundspeed. Yeehaw!

Here's another pic...just cuz she's so purty....

tebysedy.jpg
 
Jay Honeck said:
Heh. We are already looking at speed mods. :D
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There is a guy in Minneapolis that can make a SWEET plenum. Some folks have done some different wing root fairings, leg fairings, and wheel pants. Other than that and tucking the antennas inside as much as possible, you're already playing with a pretty slick airframe.

I don't know if the newer style wing tips add anything or not.
 
Jay Honeck said:
And...an hour later, the seller still hasn't received the funds.

Which means my delivery pilot is still sitting on the ground, with the meter running.

God, I hate banks...
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When you want to hand them money, they're all on top of it... when you want to withdraw...
 
CJones said:
There is a guy in Minneapolis that can make a SWEET plenum. Some folks have done some different wing root fairings, leg fairings, and wheel pants. Other than that and tucking the antennas inside as much as possible, you're already playing with a pretty slick airframe.

I don't know if the newer style wing tips add anything or not.
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If you look closely, this plane does not have gear-to-fuselage fairings. Never had 'em. Don't know why.

Tom was surprised that the plane did 200+ mph without them. Which means either (a) they are really just there for looks, or (b) this plane will be 2 knots faster once we add them.
:D

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3...
 
denverpilot said:
When you want to hand them money, they're all on top of it... when you want to withdraw...
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Between that, and the new banking regulations, getting financing was a giant PIA, even though it was never in doubt.

We got so frustrated that we almost just did a cash deal, but we're adding a second story to the hotel this fall and didn't want to end up cash poor if the Pathfinder takes a while to sell...

I've done enough remodeling now to know that you can add 30% to your best estimates...

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3...
 
Congrats to you and Mary, Jay! Beautiful bird.

Are you doing transition training anywhere?

Is Tom doing the mods as well?
 
Jay Honeck said:
Between that, and the new banking regulations, getting financing was a giant PIA, even though it was never in doubt.

We got so frustrated that we almost just did a cash deal, but we're adding a second story to the hotel this fall and didn't want to end up cash poor if the Pathfinder takes a while to sell...

I've done enough remodeling now to know that you can add 30% to your best estimates...
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Don't you just love signing the ten pages of government mandated warning sheets and putting initials next to things that say stuff like, "You know you're responsible to pay this money back because you're an f---ing adult supposedly now... mmm-kay? [Initial here]" when you have enough cash in the bank to just buy the damn thing with a check? :)
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Congrats to you and Mary, Jay! Beautiful bird.

Are you doing transition training anywhere?

Is Tom doing the mods as well?
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Tom is doing the mods, delivering it, and then providing transition training.

He's a "one stop shop"! :D

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3...
 
Nice Jay. I like the trike over the tail dragger. Stands taller, lookers bigger, and you've got viz over the nose. I'd put a warbird paint job on it though. Saw a nice one at OSH with like a T-34 type paint job.
 
denverpilot said:
Don't you just love signing the ten pages of government mandated warning sheets and putting initials next to things that say stuff like, "You know you're responsible to pay this money back because you're an f---ing adult supposedly now... mmm-kay? [Initial here]" when you have enough cash in the bank to just buy the damn thing with a check? :)
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That was what is so frustrating -- the gummint is punishing all banks, and all bank customers, because of what the CitiBanks of the world did to the world's financial markets in 2008-9.

First Bank Midwest, in little Oskaloosa, Iowa, had NOTHING to do with the worldwide financial collapse, and I am as close to a "sure thing" as they get WRT a loan -- yet we both had to jump through flaming hoops to get the loan.

My banker hates it more than I do. She's known Mary and me for 15 years, stayed at our hotel, and this is our third aircraft loan with her. There was never a doubt that they would lend us the money, but the paperwork requirements alone were crazy-labor intensive.

Example: I had to find documentation proving that Mary is the Vice-president of our corporation. Why? Nobody knows. Dumb.

Which is why banks are literally sitting on billions of dollars that they can't lend.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3...
 
When do you (and Mary) actually get to fly the plane (roughly)? Oh and when do you get the paper registration with your name on it? All "official" things I guess.
 
Hard cards have been running about 30 days.

kimberlyanne546 said:
When do you (and Mary) actually get to fly the plane (roughly)? Oh and when do you get the paper registration with your name on it? All "official" things I guess.
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kimberlyanne546 said:
When do you (and Mary) actually get to fly the plane (roughly)? Oh and when do you get the paper registration with your name on it? All "official" things I guess.
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He will deliver it in a week or so -- whenever he gets the modifications finished.
 
Velocity173 said:
Nice Jay. I like the trike over the tail dragger. Stands taller, lookers bigger, and you've got viz over the nose. I'd put a warbird paint job on it though. Saw a nice one at OSH with like a T-34 type paint job.
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Yeah, the 8 is one of the few GA planes that actually looks good in military livery. Still...

I love the Ferrari red! :D
 
The goofy bank regs are probably here to stay but the wire transfer hassles can be solved by closing through escrow. Wire the funds to the escrow company before the closing and the closing will happen on time. They use big banks and know how to get it done quickly. Buyer and seller split the fee. You would have spent less money and generated far less heartburn.

Jay Honeck said:
That was what is so frustrating -- the gummint is punishing all banks, and all bank customers, because of what the CitiBanks of the world did to the world's financial markets in 2008-9.

First Bank Midwest, in little Oskaloosa, Iowa, had NOTHING to do with the worldwide financial collapse, and I am as close to a "sure thing" as they get WRT a loan -- yet we both had to jump through flaming hoops to get the loan.

My banker hates it more than I do. She's known Mary and me for 15 years, stayed at our hotel, and this is our third aircraft loan with her. There was never a doubt that they would lend us the money, but the paperwork requirements alone were crazy-labor intensive.

Example: I had to find documentation proving that Mary is the Vice-president of our corporation. Why? Nobody knows. Dumb.

Which is why banks are literally sitting on billions of dollars that they can't lend.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3...
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Your not flying up to bring her home yourself when she is ready?:dunno:
 
wabower said:
The goofy bank regs are probably here to stay but the wire transfer hassles can be solved by closing through escrow. Wire the funds to the escrow company before the closing and the closing will happen on time. They use big banks and know how to get it done quickly. Buyer and seller split the fee. You would have spent less money and generated far less heartburn.
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Great, except we didn't know if (a) it would pass the prebuy, or (b) if the seller would accept my offer.

Bottom line is we tried to compress everything into the very last hour of a multiweek process. If the bank had done its job, that would have worked better.

As it turns out, all's well that ends well. :D

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3...
 
Jay Honeck said:
She's got 300+ hours on her.

It's the original Van's nose wheel design. We are pondering whether to do the fork mod, or just upgrade the axle, which supposedly addresses the problem.
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ask the guys at the emergency repair area at OSH what they think. Then you'll go home and do the fork mod.
 
JHW said:
ask the guys at the emergency repair area at OSH what they think. Then you'll go home and do the fork mod.
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My guy says that the aftermarket axle mod fixes 97.9% of the problem the -8A had with the original nose gear.

Apparently the original axle could bind under load, locking the front wheel. Bad and dumb design. Very un-Vans.

The new, after-market axle cannot do that. He's installing that tomorrow.
 
Jay Honeck said:
My guy says that the aftermarket axle mod fixes 97.9% of the problem the -8A had with the original nose gear.

Apparently the original axle could bind under load, locking the front wheel. Bad and dumb design. Very un-Vans.

The new, after-market axle cannot do that. He's installing that tomorrow.
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There have been endless discussions on the Van's forums on this topic. No way I'd take one expert's opinion without at least considering what all of the other experts had to say about it. You owe it to yourself to spend an evening reading through those threads. I don't have a dog in the fight (having a tailwheel airplane), but you do...

Be aware that your -8, flown without a passenger, has a more forward CG than any of the other Van's trigear models and puts a correspondingly larger amount of weight on the nosegear. That ain't necessarily a good thing when the nose gear has a fragile or sensitive reputation.

Oh, and your goal with that nosegear is that the only time it touches the ground, you're doing under 30 knots and have the stick at the aft stop. You keep it there whenever the engine is running and the airplane is moving on the ground. That's the operator's way of minimizing exposure to nosegear problems.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
What does the back normally have? Just a stick?
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There is a socket for a rear stick on all of them. It is up to the builder if he wants to put rudder pedals and a throttle back there. I never understood the guys that don't put dual controls in. One of the joys of giving rides is to let the passenger get some stick time. Also you probably won't find an instructor that will give a bi annual if he doesn't have a set of controls. Don
 
Jay Honeck said:
Apparently the original axle could bind under load, locking the front wheel. Bad and dumb design. Very un-Vans.
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Every manufacturer makes a bad design in some way, shape, or form.

Every. That means all of them. Even Vans. ;)
 
What Kyle said.

kyleb said:
No way I'd take one expert's opinion without at least considering what all of the other experts had to say about it.
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Deciding who the experts are is as much of an adventure as is diagnosing the problem.

Nauga,
and his taildragger RV-4
 
Jay Honeck said:
The stick is almost always in back. Many -8s have the rudder pedal extensions. Some have the throttle we are putting in.

With both of us pilots, we want full dual controls. Unfortunately there is no way to get brakes in the back, but at least it will be flyable from the back.
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Oh you can get brakes in the back, remember the big placard on the thing, starts with an "E"?
 
kyleb said:
There have been endless discussions on the Van's forums on this topic. No way I'd take one expert's opinion without at least considering what all of the other experts had to say about it. You owe it to yourself to spend an evening reading through those threads. I don't have a dog in the fight (having a tailwheel airplane), but you do...

Be aware that your -8, flown without a passenger, has a more forward CG than any of the other Van's trigear models and puts a correspondingly larger amount of weight on the nosegear. That ain't necessarily a good thing when the nose gear has a fragile or sensitive reputation.

Oh, and your goal with that nosegear is that the only time it touches the ground, you're doing under 30 knots and have the stick at the aft stop. You keep it there whenever the engine is running and the airplane is moving on the ground. That's the operator's way of minimizing exposure to nosegear problems.
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One good thing -- we will almost never fly solo. :D

My RV expert recommends doing the nose gear mod, but after we do the axle mod it's not a "must do now" thing. I agree.

The previous owner flew this plane for ten years, safely, with the original design. That's a pretty good endorsement.
 
Congrats on the new bird. You two will have a good time with it. The RV series is fun to fly, fast but also economical. I like the Red, too.

I bet you pick up more than 2 kts with the upper gear fairings installed. Your -8A should cruise 175kts TAS on 8gph or so at altitude.
 
Jay, If you fly it like it had a tailwheel you won't have any problem with the nose gear. I.E. always touch down on the mains and hold the nose wheel off as long as possible, taxi with the stick back, on take off get the nose light as soon as possible. Most of the nose gear failures are caused by touching down way too fast and not holding the nose off. Also the 8 is nose heavy solo with no baggage and I would put 50lbs or so in the baggage compartment when I flew it solo. You should be able to solo it in less than 10 hrs. My friend built an 8A and only had 60hrs in a Cherokee and we had him flying it well in around 6hrs. The biggest thing to get used to is planning descents and slowing it down to flap speed when approaching an airport. If you are getting over 200mph cruise at 75% power and the engine temps run normal in cruise and climb don't mess with anything under the cowl. A lot of other speed mods get expensive and you don't gain much for the time and cost involved so just go fly it and enjoy. Don
 
Guess the perceived "endorsement" depends on your point of view. Failures attributable to some combination of age or use don't typically become less frequent as both increase.
Jay Honeck said:
One good thing -- we will almost never fly solo. :D

My RV expert recommends doing the nose gear mod, but after we do the axle mod it's not a "must do now" thing. I agree.

The previous owner flew this plane for ten years, safely, with the original design. That's a pretty good endorsement.
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Foxhole said:
Wondering could a solo pilot fly it from the back seat?
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Only if you added rudder pedals, throttle, and brakes and anything in the front you need to manipulate like the fuel selector or that's on the instrument panel like the ignition switch (there's no rear instrument panel and you can't reach the front instrument panel from the rear seat). Not sure if you could even latch the canopy from the rear either. Finally, if you got all that licked, IIRC you'd also have to put some significant ballast in the front seat to stay in CG range. Bottomline, the plane simply isn't designed to be flown from the rear seat so it would, IMO, be way more trouble than it's worth to try and make it happen.
 
Thanks You answered my question. After all is said and done your CG would be out. I have never seen an RV anything and didn't know that.
 
tsts4 said:
IMO, be way more trouble than it's worth to try and make it happen.
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Since when has that stopped some RV owners? (Or owners of other EAB aircraft. Heck, owners of many kinds of aircraft - think Turbine Bo.)
 
wsuffa said:
Since when has that stopped some RV owners? (Or owners of other EAB aircraft. Heck, owners of many kinds of aircraft - think Turbine Bo.)
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Didn't say it couldn't be done (prolly already has), just pointed out what you'd have to do to make it happen. I've added mods to my own project so this is not unfamiliar territory. However, in this case I'm missing the answer to the "why would you want to" question beyond just to see if it could be done.
 
tsts4 said:
Only if you added rudder pedals, throttle, and brakes and anything in the front you need to manipulate like the fuel selector or that's on the instrument panel like the ignition switch (there's no rear instrument panel and you can't reach the front instrument panel from the rear seat). Not sure if you could even latch the canopy from the rear either. Finally, if you got all that licked, IIRC you'd also have to put some significant ballast in the front seat to stay in CG range. Bottomline, the plane simply isn't designed to be flown from the rear seat so it would, IMO, be way more trouble than it's worth to try and make it happen.
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As much as possible, we are making ours flyable from the back cockpit.

That said, as you point out there are simply some things that cannot be done from the back seat.

One thing I would really like to see -- and maybe this exists? -- is some way to remotely tune radios. We are so used to flying 2-pilot ops, with the right seater in charge of navigation and setting up the radios, that it's going to be a PIA to go back to the pilot doing everything.

With modern electronics, how tough could it be to have a remote tuner? Hell, why not a wireless remote control, just like the radios in modern automobiles?
 
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