Is there a Pt135 for Dummies?

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
20,769
Location
west Texas
Display Name
Display name:
Dave Taylor
The company I fly for got their 135 approval so I started plowing through those regs last night.
Very onerous, so I was wondering if anyone knew of a written, compliance-based synopsis for pilots.
Found nothing online.
Was hoping for an abbreviated, point-form "Must do's" (and "Must avoids") that would apply to our operation. (I can give more details on that at an appropriate time. I realize I will need to be intimately familiar with the OpCert, OpsSpecs, and Company Manual but til I am provided with that I wanted to get studying.
 
Doc Holliday said:
14 CFR Part 1
14 CFR Part 43
14 CFR Part 61
14 CFR Part 91
14 CFR Part 119
14 CFR Part 135

FAA Order 8900.1

NTSB 830

And when you get them

Your Company Training Manual
Your Company General Operations Manual
Your Company Approved MEL’s
Click to expand...
Hehe, he asked for a synopsis, not the works.
 
I’d start with commercial oral checkride training study guide, which outlines key differences between 135, etc.
 
MountainDude said:
Hehe, he asked for a synopsis, not the works.
Click to expand...

Here's the deal. There is no cliff notes or "Part 135 for Dummies".

The OP didn't tell us what type of 135 certificate he will fly under. Single Pilot? Basic? Full Certificate? 10 or more? Domestic Ops? International? Passenger? Cargo? Both? Hazmat Will Carry, Will Not Carry? Actual Weights or Average Weights?

Lots of variables here. Part 135 is not a one size fits all.
 
Here’s a start. But as stated above, there’s a lot of accompanying information that makes that 135 cert valid. Get reading.
 
I have flown commercially part 91, 91K, 135, and 121.

By far the hardest was 135. Most restrictions, yet the company (usually) puts the onus on the pilot. They will throw you to the curb.
Somewhat same for 91K.

121 easiest because everything is taken care of for you, with tons of support.
91 pretty easy, but some gotchas.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
The company I fly for got their 135 approval so I started plowing through those regs last night.
Very onerous, so I was wondering if anyone knew of a written, compliance-based synopsis for pilots.
Found nothing online.
Was hoping for an abbreviated, point-form "Must do's" (and "Must avoids") that would apply to our operation. (I can give more details on that at an appropriate time. I realize I will need to be intimately familiar with the OpCert, OpsSpecs, and Company Manual but til I am provided with that I wanted to get studying.
Click to expand...
Hope!!? You’re “…hoping for an abbreviated, point-form "Must do's" (and "Must avoids")…”
 
That’s ok, I can get this done myself.
Here is an example of the paragraph after paragraph of legal minutiae I am reading, in case anyone is interested;


“Each certificate holder that conducts commuter operations under this part with airplanes in which two pilots are required by the type certification rules of this chapter shall comply with subparts N and O of part 121 of this chapter instead of the requirements of subparts E, G, and H of this part. Notwithstanding the requirements of this paragraph, a pilot serving under this part as second in command in a commuter operation with airplanes in which two pilots are required by the type certification rules of this chapter may meet the requirements of § 135.245 instead of the requirements of § 121.436.
(c) If authorized by the Administrator upon application, each certificate holder that conducts operations under this part to which paragraph (b) of this section does not apply, may comply with the applicable sections of subparts N and O of part 121 instead of the requirements of subparts E, G, and H of this part, except that those authorized certificate holders may choose to comply with the operating experience requirements of § 135.244, instead of the requirements of § 121.434 of this chapter. Notwithstanding the requirements of this paragraph, a pilot serving under this part as second in command may meet the requirements of § 135.245 instead of the requirements of § 121.436.”
 
Doc Holliday said:
14 CFR Part 1
14 CFR Part 43
14 CFR Part 61
14 CFR Part 91
14 CFR Part 119
14 CFR Part 135

FAA Order 8900.1

NTSB 830

And when you get them

Your Company Training Manual
Your Company General Operations Manual
Your Company Approved MEL’s
Click to expand...
Synopsis “…a brief summary or general survey of something...”
 
Doc Holliday said:
Here's the deal. There is no cliff notes or "Part 135 for Dummies".

The OP didn't tell us what type of 135 certificate he will fly under. Single Pilot? Basic? Full Certificate? 10 or more? Domestic Ops? International? Passenger? Cargo? Both? Hazmat Will Carry, Will Not Carry? Actual Weights or Average Weights?

Lots of variables here. Part 135 is not a one size fits all.
Click to expand...
He did say “…I realize I will need to be intimately familiar with the OpCert, OpsSpecs, and Company Manual but til I am provided with that I wanted to get studying...”
 
Kritchlow said:
I have flown commercially part 91, 91K, 135, and 121.

By far the hardest was 135. Most restrictions, yet the company (usually) puts the onus on the pilot. They will throw you to the curb.
Somewhat same for 91K.

121 easiest because everything is taken care of for you, with tons of support.
91 pretty easy, but some gotchas.
Click to expand...
K? 91K. What’s that?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
That’s ok, I can get this done myself.
Here is an example of the paragraph after paragraph of legal minutiae I am reading, in case anyone is interested;


“Each certificate holder that conducts commuter operations under this part with airplanes in which two pilots are required by the type certification rules of this chapter shall comply with subparts N and O of part 121 of this chapter instead of the requirements of subparts E, G, and H of this part. Notwithstanding the requirements of this paragraph, a pilot serving under this part as second in command in a commuter operation with airplanes in which two pilots are required by the type certification rules of this chapter may meet the requirements of § 135.245 instead of the requirements of § 121.436.
(c) If authorized by the Administrator upon application, each certificate holder that conducts operations under this part to which paragraph (b) of this section does not apply, may comply with the applicable sections of subparts N and O of part 121 instead of the requirements of subparts E, G, and H of this part, except that those authorized certificate holders may choose to comply with the operating experience requirements of § 135.244, instead of the requirements of § 121.434 of this chapter. Notwithstanding the requirements of this paragraph, a pilot serving under this part as second in command may meet the requirements of § 135.245 instead of the requirements of § 121.436.”
Click to expand...
Sounds to me like you got a pretty good handle on this. Just curious, what planes are you flying at work?
 
luvflyin said:
K? 91K. What’s that?
Click to expand...
Without pasting a link to the reg…
In short terms, it’s a subpart of 91 to force fractional ownership companies (think Net Jets) to operate closer to 135 rules.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
That’s ok, I can get this done myself.
Here is an example of the paragraph after paragraph of legal minutiae I am reading, in case anyone is interested;


“Each certificate holder that conducts commuter operations under this part with airplanes in which two pilots are required by the type certification rules of this chapter shall comply with subparts N and O of part 121 of this chapter instead of the requirements of subparts E, G, and H of this part. Notwithstanding the requirements of this paragraph, a pilot serving under this part as second in command in a commuter operation with airplanes in which two pilots are required by the type certification rules of this chapter may meet the requirements of § 135.245 instead of the requirements of § 121.436.
(c) If authorized by the Administrator upon application, each certificate holder that conducts operations under this part to which paragraph (b) of this section does not apply, may comply with the applicable sections of subparts N and O of part 121 instead of the requirements of subparts E, G, and H of this part, except that those authorized certificate holders may choose to comply with the operating experience requirements of § 135.244, instead of the requirements of § 121.434 of this chapter. Notwithstanding the requirements of this paragraph, a pilot serving under this part as second in command may meet the requirements of § 135.245 instead of the requirements of § 121.436.”
Click to expand...
Does that apply to you?
 
luvflyin said:
He did say “…I realize I will need to be intimately familiar with the OpCert, OpsSpecs, and Company Manual but til I am provided with that I wanted to get studying...”
Click to expand...

So I offered the areas (not all) that he'll need to study. Apparently the OP doesn't understand the various levels of Part 135, or has even asked his employer what they have applied for.

He needs to know all of NTSB 830. He needs to know Rest and Duty requirements for his certificate. He needs to know all of the certificate OpSpecs and how they apply to his certificate.

He also needs to know dispatch weather requirements and alternate requirements. He will have to know HAZMAT and how that applies (Will Carry or Will Not Carry) and how it applies to his certificate. He will need to know how to do a W&B because it will be required for every flight. If the certificate has MEL's authorized by OpSpec he will need to know them and how to use them. He will need to know the procedures for maintenance return to service and documentation required.

If they have the Air Carrier Certificate already issued, that means the GOM (if applicable), the TM (if applicable) and the OpSpecs are already issued.
 
Last edited:
luvflyin said:
Sounds to me like you got a pretty good handle on this. Just curious, what planes are you flying at work?
Click to expand...
CitationJet previously Part91 business and Dry Lease
C182 Pt91 business & Low level wildlife survey
We are adding an M-600 to the 135 cert shortly
A bunch of helos but that’s not my purview.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Sounds like you should be looking for guidance from the company regarding what you should be studying rather than SGOTI.
Click to expand...

At the beginning of an Initial Class I was conducting I had a new hire pilot (new to 135) say "Can you just review with us the final test, and give us the questions on the 135.293 (a)(1,4-8) Oral to study?" He then spent the initial playing with his phone, taking numerous breaks to answer calls, etc.

He failed the written and was not recommended for the Oral due to lack of preparation. If he would have participated in the initial (like the others) it wouldn't have been a problem.

So I see red flags when someone wants the quick way to study.
 
At the end of the day, your company owes you all of this training that will answer all of your questions. If you’re in the position of building the training (ie. DO), you may be in over your skis. Nothing is insurmountable, it will just be a lot of work and doesn’t happen overnight.
 
Looks like you’re jumping in with both feet, looking for many sources to get going with your studies. Admire the enthusiasm and work ethic.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
The company I fly for got their 135 approval so I started plowing through those regs last night.
Very onerous, so I was wondering if anyone knew of a written, compliance-based synopsis for pilots.
Found nothing online.
Was hoping for an abbreviated, point-form "Must do's" (and "Must avoids") that would apply to our operation. (I can give more details on that at an appropriate time. I realize I will need to be intimately familiar with the OpCert, OpsSpecs, and Company Manual but til I am provided with that I wanted to get studying.
Click to expand...
Maybe hire a CFI to explain the regs to you since reading the regs is onerous.
 
Clip4 said:
Maybe hire a CFI to explain the regs to you since reading the regs is onerous.
Click to expand...
Can you find a CFI that will read the thread to you since obviously you didn't?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Problem is, you’re filling your head with information that you don’t even know is applicable, much less understand. Primacy is going to work against you here.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. Until you know for sure which direction to take it will most likely be counterproductive to do much studying. The caveat to this is if the company you work for has provided some guidance as to what you should study.

Don’t get ahead of yourself.
 
WDD said:
Looks like you’re jumping in with both feet, looking for many sources to get going with your studies. Admire the enthusiasm and work ethic.
Click to expand...
Thanks-
It’s always paid off for me to read, research, ask around in advance of all new endeavors!
If some don’t have the same experience or thoughts on that, well we are all different and that’s cool.
 
Get with the chief pilot of the company you are flying for,to get some useful guidance.
 
frfly172 said:
Get with the chief pilot of the company you are flying for,to get some useful guidance.
Click to expand...
Of course.
All that will happen, at right time.
We are talking about basic self study in advance of that.
Thank you.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Of course.
All that will happen, at right time.
We are talking about basic self study in advance of that.
Thank you.
Click to expand...

At least study what is pertinent.

Again, need to know type of operation, OpSpecs to even give advice.

Even if the OpSpecs aren’t issued yet, they are in draft.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Of course.
All that will happen, at right time.
We are talking about basic self study in advance of that.
Thank you.
Click to expand...

Here's one: study all the rest rules. Know when you're actually required to be off. When are you allowed to turn off your phone?
 
Know what “travel not local in nature” means with regards to rest and duty.

Who retains Operational Control?

VFR/IFR and when and how it applies.

Flight Following.

Servicing the aircraft.

Nav Databases
 
Einstein376 said:
You might enjoy “Everything Explained for the Professional Pilot”. It covers a lot of info on Part 135 flying…

https://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/3255
Click to expand...
Definitely this.

Also (it's a little old but still mostly good): http://www.austincollins.com/aveg.htm

These get you close, but it's all going to depend on OPSPECS, GOM, SOPs
- include: 135 Rest requirements, Alternates (T/O & Landing), and all the 135 when can you do an approach etc etc, and my personal favorite that they grilled me with - HAZMAT/Dangerous materials.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top