Information about Amelia Earhart's location.

Occam's Razor - she made a couple calls establishing herself as basically lost. Ran out of fuel, and ditched.

Big leap to assume she went from running N/S along a line of longitude, to finding the (any) island, and sticking it in a lagoon. Nah, they ditched, and either were killed/drowned then, or a bit later. . .what's to find? A couple engine blocks, and corroded junk? Documents? Not very likely. Heck, even if the Japanese did get her, so what? That crew would all be dead now, as well. . .

The light is well faded on this singular mystery; and her historical significance isn't impacted by whether her airplane is found, or not. It's a minor historical puzzle, suitable for the obsessed. If/if it was found, it make the nightly news once, maybe twice, and a pretty good History channel documentary.
 
Tom Maxwell said:
When the aircraft is investigated in-situ, among the items found might be AE's briefcase. Is it in the submerged plane? If not?? did USMC Wallack really find the briefcase in that safe on Saipan? History discovery awaits.

If Salty will keep looking at that image and using his own GE to investigate, he will eventually see and measure/analyze the L10E that Amelia safely landed on the lagoon surface. The Japanese pirates scuttled the craft along with the raft Fred had prepared. The pirates had to sink the craft knowing the USN search was closing in on the island.
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You make less sense every post.

Now you're insinuating that evil japanese pirates would have sunk an airplane without taking an item like a briefcase, and then the briefcase is sitting there undisturbed after 70 years of hurricanes and salt water corrosion, and that there couldn't possibly have been more than one briefcase onboard a flight such as that.
 
Salty said:
Now you're insinuating that evil japanese pirates would have sunk an airplane without taking an item like a briefcase, and then the briefcase is sitting there undisturbed after 70 years of hurricanes and salt water corrosion, and that there couldn't possibly have been more than one briefcase onboard a flight such as that.
Click to expand...

Somehow, I think finding any Lockheed Electra there would almost seal the deal. But a briefcase? What a bizarre thing to call out as a possible clue.
 
Tom Maxwell said:
The location in the lagoon at Orona has been known since 2008 and public knowledge since 2010. The search there is blocked by TIGHAR's exclusive search agreement with the Kiribati government. No others are permitted to look in the waters of Kiribati. The news media is completely unaware of this aspect of the AE mystery.
Click to expand...
Like the earlier posts said, nothing to prevent anyone from going diving there.

Tom Maxwell said:
Well Salty I wish I could do just that. Unfortunately, I don't have the 14M$.

Here is a screen grab from the NOAA website. The Okeanos Explorer sets immediately off of Howland Island. A limited search pattern is seen in the ship's track. Don't know exactly if this where Nauticos is now searching or if Okeanos is just generally looking around as part of the survey. Note that the ship's track from Apia mostly follows the 157/337 rhumb line.View attachment 52129

Some of the nations best aviation folks are involved in this search and if nothing is found at least the data and research provided should be valuable in the future. The MH370 results and this high quality search, I think, force the air industry to have built into every commercial plane beacons that deploy and don't go down with the ship.
Click to expand...
That looks like they are just surveying and mapping around those islands an underwater mountains.
 
Tom Maxwell said:
The location in the lagoon at Orona has been known since 2008 and public knowledge since 2010. The search there is blocked by TIGHAR's exclusive search agreement with the Kiribati government. No others are permitted to look in the waters of Kiribati. The news media is completely unaware of this aspect of the AE mystery.
Click to expand...

Refuted multiple times in the discussion. Nothing is blocking anyone from looking in various ways.

Cap'n Jack said:
Like the earlier posts said, nothing to prevent anyone from going diving there.
Click to expand...

Or just flying over it with good cameras or radar. Or even just paying for better satellite imagery. A credit card and a mouse click away.

No shortage of various commercial imagery aircraft that can easily make the trip. Not even THAT expensive compared to full blown surface expeditions. And Kiribati won't care in the slightest.

Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true.
 
denverpilot said:
Refuted multiple times in the discussion. Nothing is blocking anyone from looking in various ways.



Or just flying over it with good cameras or radar. Or even just paying for better satellite imagery. A credit card and a mouse click away.

No shortage of various commercial imagery aircraft that can easily make the trip. Not even THAT expensive compared to full blown surface expeditions. And Kiribati won't care in the slightest.

Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true.
Click to expand...

I have been termed mentally impaired but never called a purposeful liar on a public forum. But wait. I may be in good company as discovery is often charged with heresy and lying. I think denverpilot has his own idea about the AE mystery and finds that denigrating other ideas is a good way to protect his own idea.

Entering the PIPA (Phoenix Islands Protected Area) requires a permit and entry without permit can result in a big fine up to $100,000. No, you can't go diving there without a permit. For science research purpose maybe. Recreation-no way.

I don't have the several tens of thousands of dollars the lease a "commercial imagery aircraft". Fly out there to Orona only to find poor visibility, high waves, etc.---oh let's try next week for another 25 grand. No thanks.

Better satellite imagery is a possibility. I keep looking but most commercial sites don't have the up close inspection required to see if the image is of any value. Special software, like GE, is required to inspect the fine detail of high resolution imagery. The recorded light that outlines the aircraft is specular or reflected light. It's not diffuse. Very few satellite or air photos are going see the glint (as in glint of a gun barrel) from the the aircraft. Sun and camera alignment have to be perfect; very rare.
 
Tom Maxwell said:
I have been termed mentally impaired but never called a purposeful liar on a public forum. But wait. I may be in good company as discovery is often charged with heresy and lying. I think denverpilot has his own idea about the AE mystery and finds that denigrating other ideas is a good way to protect his own idea.

Entering the PIPA (Phoenix Islands Protected Area) requires a permit and entry without permit can result in a big fine up to $100,000. No, you can't go diving there without a permit. For science research purpose maybe. Recreation-no way.

I don't have the several tens of thousands of dollars the lease a "commercial imagery aircraft". Fly out there to Orona only to find poor visibility, high waves, etc.---oh let's try next week for another 25 grand. No thanks.

Better satellite imagery is a possibility. I keep looking but most commercial sites don't have the up close inspection required to see if the image is of any value. Special software, like GE, is required to inspect the fine detail of high resolution imagery. The recorded light that outlines the aircraft is specular or reflected light. It's not diffuse. Very few satellite or air photos are going see the glint (as in glint of a gun barrel) from the the aircraft. Sun and camera alignment have to be perfect; very rare.
Click to expand...

Glint of a gun barrel on Amelia earharts plane that's been in saltwater for 70 years?

Im struggling to respond to that one without resorting to denigrating remarks.
 
The unpainted shiny metal of the Electra receives and reflects tiny amounts of light through small openings in the layer of marine growth. The rounded surfaces have less sand and growth and are brighter than the flat surfaces which collect a heavy coat of sand. Note that the wings and elevator is practically invisible. In 1937, had a pilot aligned himself perfectly to intercept the glint or reflected light, the aircraft without any marine growth would have blossomed as a brilliant flash. Every pilot has experienced the blinding flash from water the sun can create. Lambert's flight loitered as he investigated below and they probably made dozens of observations at that end of the lagoon. But none passed through perfect alignment to see the reflected light from the downed plane. A plane's movement provides only a momentary glimpse of the glaring aircraft surface. When one searches a ridge line for the location of a hunting companion, he may rarely see the glint of the gun barrel the hunter carries but it tells exactly where the hunter is. Knowing where to point, pocket mirrors may be used to signal friends but remain invisible to foes nearby. Extremely few cameras/photos can intercept the glint because perfect alignment is required.
 
Tom Maxwell said:
The unpainted shiny metal of the Electra receives and reflects tiny amounts of light through small openings in the layer of marine growth. The rounded surfaces have less sand and growth and are brighter than the flat surfaces which collect a heavy coat of sand. Note that the wings and elevator is practically invisible. In 1937, had a pilot aligned himself perfectly to intercept the glint or reflected light, the aircraft without any marine growth would have blossomed as a brilliant flash. Every pilot has experienced the blinding flash from water the sun can create. Lambert's flight loitered as he investigated below and they probably made dozens of observations at that end of the lagoon. But none passed through perfect alignment to see the reflected light from the downed plane. A plane's movement provides only a momentary glimpse of the glaring aircraft surface. When one searches a ridge line for the location of a hunting companion, he may rarely see the glint of the gun barrel the hunter carries but it tells exactly where the hunter is. Knowing where to point, pocket mirrors may be used to signal friends but remain invisible to foes nearby. Extremely few cameras/photos can intercept the glint because perfect alignment is required.
Click to expand...
Maybe they can use a Geiger counter and find her glow in the dark wristwatch.
 
There's never been a clear picture of bigfoot or a UFO either....just sayin. :rolleyes:
 
Tom Maxwell said:
The unpainted shiny metal of the Electra receives and reflects tiny amounts of light through small openings in the layer of marine growth. The rounded surfaces have less sand and growth and are brighter than the flat surfaces which collect a heavy coat of sand. Note that the wings and elevator is practically invisible. In 1937, had a pilot aligned himself perfectly to intercept the glint or reflected light, the aircraft without any marine growth would have blossomed as a brilliant flash. Every pilot has experienced the blinding flash from water the sun can create. Lambert's flight loitered as he investigated below and they probably made dozens of observations at that end of the lagoon. But none passed through perfect alignment to see the reflected light from the downed plane. A plane's movement provides only a momentary glimpse of the glaring aircraft surface. When one searches a ridge line for the location of a hunting companion, he may rarely see the glint of the gun barrel the hunter carries but it tells exactly where the hunter is. Knowing where to point, pocket mirrors may be used to signal friends but remain invisible to foes nearby. Extremely few cameras/photos can intercept the glint because perfect alignment is required.
Click to expand...

At this point, I highly doubt the Electra would be reflecting much, if any light. It was a polished aluminum airplane. To keep the surface reflective takes a lot of work. As an example, look how fast the reflective surface dulled on airliners back when that was popular. Now throw on 80 years of being underwater, along with silt, mud, and sand building up on the surfaces. Even the rounded bits.

This DC3 was sunk in 2009 for drivers to explore. Look how much of the reflectivity has been lost in just 8 years. Dc3 wings were usually silver. As were the prop hubs.

The chances of an Electra still reflecting enough light to be picked up on a low resolution google maps photo are pretty much nil I think.

a3b90fbafb062d49020390c6e3648fd3.jpg


6be0ed84d276515a928a208b5ffdbca8.jpg


Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
AmazonChitlin said:
At this point, I highly doubt the Electra would be reflecting much, if any light. It was a polished aluminum airplane. To keep the surface reflective takes a lot of work. As an example, look how dast the reflective aurface dulled on airliners back when that was popular. Now throw on 80 years of being underwater, along with silt, mud, and sand building up on the surfaces. Even the rounded bits.

This DC3 was sunk in 2009 for drivers to explore. Look how much of the reflectivity has been lost in just 8 years. Dc3 wings were usually silver. As were the prop hubs.

The chances of an Electra still reflecting enough light to be picked up on a low resolution google maps photo are pretty much nil I think

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

But it doesn't have gun barrels to glint in the sun like an Electra does.......
 
I bet if it had an AoA indicator we'd all see the Blue Donut shining like a beacon at night, up from the depths of the forbidden lagoon where the Kiribati government blocks all light from escaping. LOL.
 
denverpilot said:
I bet if it had an AoA indicator we'd all see the Blue Donut shining like a beacon at night, up from the depths of the forbidden lagoon where the Kiribati government blocks all light from escaping. LOL.
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You mean... AE actually embarked on an around-the-world flight without an AoA indicator ??! :eek2:
 
AmazonChitlin said:
At this point, I highly doubt the Electra would be reflecting much, if any light. It was a polished aluminum airplane. To keep the surface reflective takes a lot of work. As an example, look how fast the reflective surface dulled on airliners back when that was popular. Now throw on 80 years of being underwater, along with silt, mud, and sand building up on the surfaces. Even the rounded bits.

This DC3 was sunk in 2009 for drivers to explore. Look how much of the reflectivity has been lost in just 8 years. Dc3 wings were usually silver. As were the prop hubs.

The chances of an Electra still reflecting enough light to be picked up on a low resolution google maps photo are pretty much nil I think.
Click to expand...

I would agree with you if the two environments were similar. Having enjoyed the diving at Kanton for several years, I can say that there is no silt or mud in the lagoons of the Phoenix Islands. The bottom is mostly hard corals and a light limestone sand. And the vegetative algae clinging to the DC-3 is rarely seen at Kanton/Orona. The first picture posted has some reflected light just above the flight positions but mostly the illumination is normal diffuse light. The second picture shows considerable light from the main cabin. That could be reflected light from the flash photography. The wings are dark-covered by silt kicked up by the divers. The lagoons of the Phoenix islands are patrolled by parrot fish, including the giant bumphead parrotfish. These fish are constantly eating the coral so a new coral tower may take centuries to develop. I speculate the fish keep the surface of aircraft cleaner than it would be otherwise. Eventually of course the coral will overgrow the plane and after thousands of years bury the thing forever. Yours is a point to ponder; but light rays, waves, or particles..no matter how you describe light..is incredibly small and only the tiniest opening is required for light to enter and escape. Google Earth photos are high resolution.
 
Tom Maxwell said:
I would agree with you if the two environments were similar. Having enjoyed the diving at Kanton for several years, I can say that there is no silt or mud in the lagoons of the Phoenix Islands. The bottom is mostly hard corals and a light limestone sand. And the vegetative algae clinging to the DC-3 is rarely seen at Kanton/Orona. The first picture posted has some reflected light just above the flight positions but mostly the illumination is normal diffuse light. The second picture shows considerable light from the main cabin. That could be reflected light from the flash photography. The wings are dark-covered by silt kicked up by the divers. The lagoons of the Phoenix islands are patrolled by parrot fish, including the giant bumphead parrotfish. These fish are constantly eating the coral so a new coral tower may take centuries to develop. I speculate the fish keep the surface of aircraft cleaner than it would be otherwise. Eventually of course the coral will overgrow the plane and after thousands of years bury the thing forever. Yours is a point to ponder; but light rays, waves, or particles..no matter how you describe light..is incredibly small and only the tiniest opening is required for light to enter and escape. Google Earth photos are high resolution.
Click to expand...
#/dev/null
 
denverpilot said:
I was tempted to make a personal attack to get the standard, "Thread closed for MC review" process going. LOL. Throw myself on the sword to save us all.
Click to expand...
Your mother dresses you funny.

There. Is that enough of a personal attack?

I think we have start arguing that Trump rigged the election to get the thread closed.
 
Wonder why others on this thread don't have any contribution to the thread subject and narrative. There is the Nikumaroro theory, the crash and sink theory, the Irene Bolam theory, all kinds of other Japanese capture theories. I am sure several hundred people have followed this thread but the critics make it sound as though they are the only members to have read the thread and surely their critical opinions are those of everyone. If indeed the focus of the thread is so narrow to only include my new (untested) theory, then I agree...MC close the thread.
 
It's OK to disagree, and some great thoughts have been presented. No need to belittle the dude.

I thought I needed to make the ports on my XR100 smaller to increase airspeed just before it entered the port. People told me that was a bad idea, that we spend most of our time in the upper RPMs, and normally people go bigger on the ports.

I didn't care, darn it, I was going to pioneer and do what others weren't. Maybe I'd find something they missed.

I had to find out for myself that it didn't work in practice. Everybody was right.

If dude wants to believe, let him believe, until more facts can definitely say it's not her plane. For all we know it is; it does most likely exist out there somewhere. Does anyone know of such a site that sells higher quality images that he could use? Or is the only option really going there?

I wonder if you could put out a "anyone in this area, if you can take pictures, I'd pay you XXXX" for them. I wonder if a local person would boat out there and take pictures of GPS coordinates?
 
StevieTimes said:
It's OK to disagree, and some great thoughts have been presented. No need to belittle the dude.

I thought I needed to make the ports on my XR100 smaller to increase airspeed just before it entered the port. People told me that was a bad idea, that we spend most of our time in the upper RPMs, and normally people go bigger on the ports.

I didn't care, darn it, I was going to pioneer and do what others weren't. Maybe I'd find something they missed.

I had to find out for myself that it didn't work in practice. Everybody was right.

If dude wants to believe, let him believe, until more facts can definitely say it's not her plane. For all we know it is; it does most likely exist out there somewhere. Does anyone know of such a site that sells higher quality images that he could use? Or is the only option really going there?

I wonder if you could put out a "anyone in this area, if you can take pictures, I'd pay you XXXX" for them. I wonder if a local person would boat out there and take pictures of GPS coordinates?
Click to expand...
When someone is blowing smoke they deserve every bit of the smoke they get back. Folks were nice (more or less) until the smoke blower insisted on clinging to his ignorance while trying to convince us of more male bovine excrement. Weapons released at that point....

And yes, trump rigged the election to get this thread closed. ;)
 
It was not the Japanese, it wasn't getting lost and ditching in a big, deep ocean, and it wasn't even the Swedes.

Just like Elvis, she went home.....
 
Salty said:
Nope. This link explains.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17980520/hashtag-instead-of-the-dollar-sign-ssh-shell
Click to expand...

Umm kinda.

The thought process behind having the super user shell use a # is that if you cut and paste a line using a rodent, the hash will negate an accidental cut and paste of the carriage return from running the command again, because # is a comment to the shell.

A sneaky/smart way to attempt to keep you from hanging yourself if you're still using a mouse and haven't figured out how to completely screw your self over in proper command line fashion yet, with a "!" prefix and a history line number. LOL.

But in this case it doesn't matter -- the provided string wasn't a valid command anyway. ;-)

And technically if you're using a mouse it should be a three button mouse, paste is the center button, and all windows should gain focus if the mouse hovers over them, even if they're partially obscured under another window.

By most commercial and non-Commerical unix conventions, anyway. ;-) YMMV.
 
denverpilot said:
[snip]
A sneaky/smart way to attempt to keep you from hanging yourself if you're still using a mouse and haven't figured out how to completely screw your self over in proper command line fashion yet, with a "!" prefix and a history line number. LOL.
[snip]
Click to expand...

I've always preferred to screw myself from the command line. I've been able to do a pretty good job at times. And learned some rather creative ways to recover.

I watched over somebody shoulder (it wasn't me, honest!) while somebody typed:
cd /
rm -rf *

The first indication that anything funny was going on was:
rm: busy

Glad we had good backups...
John
 
MAKG1 said:
You guys think /dev/null is executable?

What do you expect it to do?
Click to expand...

Many moons ago I worked in various parts of the computer storage industry, mostly writing device drivers. I did propose writing a high speed null device driver that would preemptively DMA data from memory into /dev/null... :cool:

Of course I also wrote a white paper describing how we could (in less than infinite time) restore hard drives that hadn't been backed up by generating all possible combinations of bits and picking the correct one. That one scared me because somebody in the marketing department got it and didn't realize it was a joke...
 
Clark1961 said:
When someone is blowing smoke they deserve every bit of the smoke they get back. Folks were nice (more or less) until the smoke blower insisted on clinging to his ignorance while trying to convince us of more male bovine excrement. Weapons released at that point....

And yes, trump rigged the election to get this thread closed. ;)
Click to expand...

I learned that in debate class too. Make your arguments, state your case, use facts, logic, and reason; and if you can't convince the other person of your point, then it's OK to attack them.
 
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