If you're flying in...

I've camped in some extreme weather and circumstances. That, to me, is part of the fun and experience. I'll opt for a tent over a hotel room any day. My family camped 3-4 times/yr growing up and I've kept that momentum going. I basically just subsist on beer and bacon, the rest sorts itself out!
 
Would do Oshkosh again, and possibly fly in as I like airplanes and like to see new things, but hate large crowds. But no camping as I'm mosquito bait, unless it's in an RV / trailer with AC and bathroom and shower if camping, or better yet, a hotel room. Especially with the wind and rains I've seen roll through OSH.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I MAY be in the minority here but all the things mentioned above is why I don't have a desire to fly into Oshkosh. First and foremost, I hate crowds and dumb people. I get enough air show experience twice a year here at home and I work most of it for my job. Second, I hate camping and feeling like I need a shower and I've done a lot of it over my years and have decided that I like air conditioning and electricity way too much to sleep in a tent in the bugs and weather.

There, I said it.
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You know, I'm sitting at a desk in the dorms with air conditioning and showers. It's not too bad.
 
After a few cups of 'trucker black' things will come into focus. Later on a trip to the SOS Tent will clear things up even more.
 
mcdewey said:
I'm here. Dirty, sweaty, smelly, buggy, and sleep-deprived. But I'll forget it all when I get home and just remember the good stuff. I can't imagine doing this for anything else.
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Does being totally jealous of this indicate a need for therapy? (Planning to leave in the morning and camping wherever they'll have me.)
 
N659HB said:
Some of us can only manage 90 knots at redline.

What about all the Cubs?
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Fly max cruise per the NOTAM and consider early arrival per the NOTAM. But if you in a Bo' everyone on the ground and air expect 90 knots, not 90 mph


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Cajun_Flyer said:
I've camped in some extreme weather and circumstances. That, to me, is part of the fun and experience. I'll opt for a tent over a hotel room any day. My family camped 3-4 times/yr growing up and I've kept that momentum going. I basically just subsist on beer and bacon, the rest sorts itself out!
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Yup

The Pirates of the North40 threw one helluva party last night.
 
eman1200 said:
I would love to chill out at The Kosh but I still have zero desire to fly in. And I mean zeeroh.
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Too bad - It's one of the neatest experiences in flying. Should be on every pilot's bucket list.

Timbeck2 said:
I MAY be in the minority here but all the things mentioned above is why I don't have a desire to fly into Oshkosh. First and foremost, I hate crowds and dumb people.
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Luckily, the proportion of dumb people at Oshkosh is extremely low.

And crowds are easily ignored, especially when you are watching airplanes that you just don't see anywhere else. I rather enjoyed the jet-bomber flyby (B-1, B-2, B-52) and the missing man with a pair of B-29's where one of the B-29's was the missing man. You just can't see these things anywhere else.

I get enough air show experience twice a year here at home and I work most of it for my job. Second, I hate camping and feeling like I need a shower and I've done a lot of it over my years and have decided that I like air conditioning and electricity way too much to sleep in a tent in the bugs and weather.
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There's *plenty* of other options.

You can stay at a hotel or the UW-Oshkosh dorms and drive back and forth. You can rent a motor home or travel trailer and "glamp" on-site. Oh, and they do have showers for campers, and if you zip your tent the bugs will be outside.

Personally, I've found that I really enjoy the experience of being on the field 24/7 the entire week, living and breathing nothing but aviation. I am reaching my limit on camping and keep threatening to buy a cheap used travel trailer, though.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
field 24/7 the entire week, living and breathing nothing but aviation. I am reaching my limit on camping and keep threatening to buy a cheap used travel trailer, though.
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we rented one; it was a 15 min walk from the tower, trams go partway - so nice to have a mostly quiet place to chill, get out of the sun, nap, private shower, off-the-ground sleeping. Felt spoilt'!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
<rant>

Go to Ripon, follow the tracks, 1800 feet, 90 knots, 1/2 mile in trail, and...

SHUT. THE HELL. UP!!!
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No chit. On Monday morning inbound over Ripon at around 0800 I heard some assclown call up, "Oshkosh approach, we're a flight of 3 LSAs, 10 miles south of Ripon, inbound, just checking in." A flight of 3 LSAs, so that's 3 idiots who didn't read the NOTAM. You could almost hear the Fisk controller shaking his head as he basically said, "yeah, that's great, continue inbound over Ripon and head for Fisk." Frustrating...
 
Timbeck2 said:
I MAY be in the minority here but all the things mentioned above is why I don't have a desire to fly into Oshkosh. First and foremost, I hate crowds and dumb people. I get enough air show experience twice a year here at home and I work most of it for my job. Second, I hate camping and feeling like I need a shower and I've done a lot of it over my years and have decided that I like air conditioning and electricity way too much to sleep in a tent in the bugs and weather.

There, I said it.
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I think someone should track you down and sentence you to two days doing time at FISK. :cool: ;)
 
Timbeck2 said:
Des I didn't say anything about not loving airplanes. All I said was that I hate crowds (and I'll be more specific, meaning: large crowds) and dumb people, feeling dirty and sweaty, and sleeping in a tent with bugs and weather. I had no idea other people "thoroughly enjoyed" those things. My apologies to those who do.
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What we do in the N40 at OSH can hardly be called camping any more. It's more like lounging in a lawn chair next to the beer cooler and the ripstop. Hell, they even have flush toilets now. You don't even have to make your coffee in the morning (although the stuff they call coffee at the restaurant was about the worst I have ever tasted).
 
eman1200 said:
I would love to chill out at The Kosh but I still have zero desire to fly in. And I mean zeeroh.
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I've done the obligatory flight into OSH. BTDT.

I've flown in the cherokee once. Flew in with a friend in his C185. Took the train twice (pick up a car at MKE), drove twice (more than 10 yrs apart - forgot how miserable the drive is), commercial more than once (again, pick up a car at MKE).
 
We all ***** about everyone flying in, but one should keep in mind that midairs are staggeringly rare at Oshkosh, I think there's been one. Ten thousand airplanes show up, and no mid air collisions. Someone is doing something right.

By the way, I've called FISK approach for a runway assignment when they weren't too busy. Sometimes I even get what I want.
 
Flying in was a breeze. Had no issue at all except for the TwinStar that thought 135 knts was a suggestion. The high and fast pattern is much better than slugging it out in the 90 knot pattern. Landed 36L and rolled to the end. I can tell ya right now though that if they ask me to exit into the grass they are going to get an "unable" response and the trailing traffic will be going around. The Venture is not a grass airplane.
 
Heard this guy call the tower one evening during the show asking for landing clearance.

TOWER: Are you on the Ripon transition?
PILOT: Affirmative.
TOWER: Have you gotten to Fisk yet?
PILOT: Yes.
TOWER: Do you see the runways?
PILOT: Negative.
questions follow about the exact position which the pilot is unclear where exactly he is.
TOWER: OK, just fly due east until you come to the lake and then report that.
PILOT: I'm not familiar with the lake.
TOWER: It's a big lake, you'll find it.

At this point, I figure that the guy is probably south of Fond du Lac and the next call will be when he hits Lake Michigan rather than Lake Winnebago. Never heard from the guy again.
 
GRG55 said:
What we do in the N40 at OSH can hardly be called camping any more. It's more like lounging in a lawn chair next to the beer cooler and the ripstop. Hell, they even have flush toilets now. You don't even have to make your coffee in the morning (although the stuff they call coffee at the restaurant was about the worst I have ever tasted).
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Agreed, except for the part about the coffee. If you want to taste worse, swing by my work one day.

While I had fun in the N40, I'm already thinking I'll opt for Scholler next year. I like campfires and socializing around them.
 
Grum.Man said:
Flying in was a breeze. Had no issue at all except for the TwinStar that thought 135 knts was a suggestion. The high and fast pattern is much better than slugging it out in the 90 knot pattern. Landed 36L and rolled to the end. I can tell ya right now though that if they ask me to exit into the grass they are going to get an "unable" response and the trailing traffic will be going around. The Venture is not a grass airplane.
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I considered the 135 kt arrival, but the downward visibility in the Aztec is poor and I have visions of descending on some idiot not following ATC -of which there seem a plentiful supply year after year.
 
steingar said:
We all ***** about everyone flying in, but one should keep in mind that midairs are staggeringly rare at Oshkosh, I think there's been one. Ten thousand airplanes show up, and no mid air collisions. Someone is doing something right.
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Pretty sure that number is actually zero. And while the controllers are doing an amazing job, there's a lot of pilots out there who could be doing a lot better.

By the way, I've called FISK approach for a runway assignment when they weren't too busy. Sometimes I even get what I want.
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If they ask you which runway you want, answer. If there's only one other airplane (or less) along the tracks, *maybe* then it's OK. Otherwise, shut it!

Grum.Man said:
The high and fast pattern is much better than slugging it out in the 90 knot pattern.
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The NOTAM specifically says, several times, that the high arrival is for those "unable" to maintain 90 knots comfortably. I see an awful lot of airplanes (Cirrus' are a common offender) that fly high because they think they're cool for being able to go 135. Well, you're NOT cool... You're a pain in the ass for the controllers, who have to open up a big enough hole going to one runway or the other that you won't run over someone in front of you, and that's not easy when you don't know what's coming up the tracks. In fact, you may increase your chances of being told to go back to Ripon and start over so they can have time to create said hole.

Landed 36L and rolled to the end. I can tell ya right now though that if they ask me to exit into the grass they are going to get an "unable" response and the trailing traffic will be going around. The Venture is not a grass airplane.
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Then do one of two things:

1) Take the wheel pants off it, if that's the concern. We've done this with the club DA40 a few times.
2) Don't fly into Oshkosh. Go to Appleton and you can stay on the pavement all week.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Pretty sure that number is actually zero. And while the controllers are doing an amazing job, there's a lot of pilots out there who could be doing a lot better.



If they ask you which runway you want, answer. If there's only one other airplane (or less) along the tracks, *maybe* then it's OK. Otherwise, shut it!



The NOTAM specifically says, several times, that the high arrival is for those "unable" to maintain 90 knots comfortably. I see an awful lot of airplanes (Cirrus' are a common offender) that fly high because they think they're cool for being able to go 135. Well, you're NOT cool... You're a pain in the ass for the controllers, who have to open up a big enough hole going to one runway or the other that you won't run over someone in front of you, and that's not easy when you don't know what's coming up the tracks. In fact, you may increase your chances of being told to go back to Ripon and start over so they can have time to create said hole.



Then do one of two things:

1) Take the wheel pants off it, if that's the concern. We've done this with the club DA40 a few times.
2) Don't fly into Oshkosh. Go to Appleton and you can stay on the pavement all week.
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Wow somebody is high on their horse today! Since I don't fly a Cirrus I will assume the comment about the 90 knots wasn't directed at me. If it was well the reply is no I cannot safely fly 90 knots. At 90 knots my engine would over heat before I made the approach and I would be totally blind out the front as the nose is so high I wouldn't be able to see the traffic I am supposed to follow.

To your second point, I don't have wheel pants. I have a narrow short wheel base with tinny tires, a fragile front gear supporting an Io-550 and a propeller that is mere inches from the ground. If everyone that couldn't comply with the procedures diverted to Appleton the show would be far less crowded. 75% of the Vintage airplanes can't do 90 knots, you don't see any of the jets being directed into the grass immediately, they aren't sending DC3's into the grass or many other larger/rare planes. Are they somehow better than those of us that cannot or will not taxi in the grass? Last I checked this was put on by the EAA which stands for Experimental Aircraft Association. Well guess what, I am an experimental and I am an EAA member so I have just as much of a right to be there as anyone else including the big name performers.
 
1) If you are unable to do grass because of the type of airplane please still come to OSH! Just say unable when requested to exit. However, I've seen plenty a' Venture taxi in the grass at OSH, but see item #2.

2) Also, please don't think you need to get off the pavement at 20+ knots. In my RV-9 that would be another takeoff given the drop-off a lot of places on the field. You'd probably roll it in the Venture. Just get slow, and taxi off without delay.
 
keen9 said:
1) If you are unable to do grass because of the type of airplane please still come to OSH! Just say unable when requested to exit. However, I've seen plenty a' Venture taxi in the grass at OSH, but see item #2.

2) Also, please don't think you need to get off the pavement at 20+ knots. In my RV-9 that would be another takeoff given the drop-off a lot of places on the field. You'd probably roll it in the Venture. Just get slow, and taxi off without delay.
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Some of us will do it in an effort to be polite if it is a short distance and we can take our time, in fact all of us taxied across the grass to get to the Charlie Sandbox this year. All of us commented that we wouldn't do it again and none of us taxied on the grass leaving. We pulled the airplanes all the way to the taxi way. It's just way too hard on the nose gear and retract mechanisms and not worth the risk.
 
Having seen how unstable Ventures can be, I would be leery in some years and in some spots to get off in the grass at OSH too.

The vast majority of landing accidents in them is lateral loads at touchdown and tipping. They're not forgiving in the landing gear department.

They make up for it in the go-fast department though. Whew.
 
Grum.Man said:
Wow somebody is high on their horse today!
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I've flown the Fisk arrival ~30 times. I've been to Fisk on the ground. I've watched how hard the controllers have to work to keep us safe and traffic flowing, and it kinda ticks me off how difficult a lot of pilots make it on them.

Since I don't fly a Cirrus I will assume the comment about the 90 knots wasn't directed at me. If it was well the reply is no I cannot safely fly 90 knots. At 90 knots my engine would over heat before I made the approach and I would be totally blind out the front as the nose is so high I wouldn't be able to see the traffic I am supposed to follow.
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Perfect reasoning for going to 135. A Cirrus doesn't need to do 135, nor do I in the Mooney. 2200 RPM, gear down, one notch of flaps and I can see just fine in the Mooney.

To your second point, I don't have wheel pants. I have a narrow short wheel base with tinny tires, a fragile front gear supporting an Io-550 and a propeller that is mere inches from the ground.
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Sounds like you might not want to taxi on grass, period, at any speed! Since all of the OSH parking except showplanes and pre-arranged FBO accommodations are on grass, well, there ya go.

75% of the Vintage airplanes can't do 90 knots,
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And they're supposed to do best forward speed and arrive early in the morning if possible. All covered in the NOTAM. It's those who simply choose not to follow the NOTAM that drive me nuts.

you don't see any of the jets being directed into the grass immediately, they aren't sending DC3's into the grass or many other larger/rare planes.
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They're also much larger, coming in from a different arrival, and Tower knows they're coming and can make a hole for them while keeping the rest of the traffic flowing.

Are they somehow better than those of us that cannot or will not taxi in the grass?
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Nope. Stop taking it so personally. You fly a relatively rare experimental, and you have good reasons for doing what you do, and you're likely not causing anyone any trouble. Or, at least not any more trouble than you have to. ;)

Going back to the OP, what got my goat this year was the number of people talking on the radio even when it was super-busy, causing some inconvenient and unsafe moments for other people. While on the field, I saw plenty of others not following various procedures as well. Sooner or later, they're going to kill someone. Not cool.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Going back to the OP, what got my goat this year was the number of people talking on the radio even when it was super-busy, causing some inconvenient and unsafe moments for other people. While on the field, I saw plenty of others not following various procedures as well. Sooner or later, they're going to kill someone. Not cool.
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That C2O video from LAST year got me visibly angry listening to it. Formation flyers babbling on the radio just ultra-****es-me-off.

I bet the C2O guys had a little heart-to-heart chat with some folks this year in prep sessions and at the starting point about that.

I love the C2O guys and gals, I really do, but the Bonanza folks work harder at it. Watching one of the C2O training flight videos and the B2O training flight videos is like night and day different.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I MAY be in the minority here but all the things mentioned above is why I don't have a desire to fly into Oshkosh. First and foremost, I hate crowds and dumb people....

There, I said it.
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You are NOT the only one. There are MANY of us, we are just silent and don't say it out loud.
Dang, I now broke the first rule of the no-OSH-flight club. And the second rule too. :(
 
For those that saw the A-10, F-35, F-16 and a lot of the P-51, P-47, T-33, F-86, P-40 demos. I don't miss out on that. They come to my air patch every March to re-certify to fly those shows. I get three days of it every year. And I see the Blunderturds and Blue Cankles every other year. I've read even more stories of stupid pilots in this thread and how it cheeses people off. I just don't to be cheesed off and if I can prevent that, I do. :dunno:
 
keen9 said:
1) If you are unable to do grass because of the type of airplane please still come to OSH! Just say unable when requested to exit. However, I've seen plenty a' Venture taxi in the grass at OSH, but see item #2.

2) Also, please don't think you need to get off the pavement at 20+ knots. In my RV-9 that would be another takeoff given the drop-off a lot of places on the field. You'd probably roll it in the Venture. Just get slow, and taxi off without delay.
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There was a Venture parked on the grass among the second row of Barons behind me.
The grass is a risk for a lot of planes however. Several, including a Mooney, got stuck in the grass on the south side of 09-27 on Sunday, after the rain the night before. They finally put up cones.
 
they aren't sending DC3's into the grass or many other larger/rare planes. Are they somehow better than those of us that cannot or will not taxi in the grass?
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They indeed do send the DC-3s into the grass and the Trimotors turn off into the grass without even being told. If your landing gear is so precious that it can't taxi through rolled grass, then plan your approach so you turn off on the hard surface screwing your fellow aviators behind you.
 
flyingron said:
They indeed do send the DC-3s into the grass and the Trimotors turn off into the grass without even being told. If your landing gear is so precious that it can't taxi through rolled grass, then plan your approach so you turn off on the hard surface screwing your fellow aviators behind you.
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Assuming the big taildraggers are the same as the little ones, they kind of prefer the grass. Grass is good.


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I've never liked that long taxi through the grass but I just accept it as a necessary risk if I want to camp at OSH. Still, I will always be slowed to a relatively safe taxi speed before you see me leave the pavement.

I do always request that my nose strut is inflated to the maximum acceptable height just before the show. Then I cross my fingers and watch the plane ahead of me to see if it discovers any holes.
 
So I guess we should have told those probably 50 J3 cubs that flew in to stay out of Oshkosh because they likely inconvenienced another pilot or controller by not doing 90 knts. While we are at it, let's cut the mass arrivals out too since those inconvenience other pilots who have to hold while they land 50 Mooneys. No more Blue Angles since those guys cut an hour from the arrival and departure times inconveniencing some pilots. The guy in the Yellow DC3 must be a real douche for asking to do low passes causing the controllers to move other aircraft around to fit them in. I tell you what, there is a bunch of "entitled" people around here. The fact that you can see every type of aircraft known to man at Airventure is what makes it such a great event. If I have to break out and go back to Fisk because one of the last few Porterfields is doing 70 knots on his way to the greatest aviation show on earth who cares, I will be taking pictures of it after I land. When we pulled the Venture out of Charlie Sandbox for the Experimental in Review not a single volunteer complained. In fact there were more there to help than we needed.
 
I just realized that my first experience off the hard top was as a passenger on an Island Airways (?) Ford Trimotor. Back around 1970 my Dad and his RC modeling buddy were driving back from the mid-winter Toledo show and they spotted a flying Trimotor. They got all excited so we followed it to a landing (you can do that), bought tickets and took a flight.

I clearly remember all the 'piano wire' holding the exhaust manifold together and the crunchy dust of the dirt/grass runway. Cool, airplanes can fly off dirt! Heck, I had never even seen an RC operate off anything other than hardtop.

Forty five years later, between the gliders and Maule driving, that flight might be why I have logged more grass operations than hardtop ops.

Grass is good.


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