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flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
24,899
Location
UQACY, WI
Display Name
Display name:
iMooniac
<rant>

Go to Ripon, follow the tracks, 1800 feet, 90 knots, 1/2 mile in trail, and...

SHUT. THE HELL. UP!!!

It was really busy today, and it got to the point where the controllers were behind the eight ball, giving instructions to aircraft that were already past Fisk... Oh, and another PSA: The NOTAM specifically says DO NOT PROCEED BEYOND FISK without ATC instructions! Turn left, go around Rush Lake, back to Ripon, and start over.

Anyway, controllers were super-busy, and people keep keying up and saying "But we're a flight of three!" or "Can I have runway 36 instead?"

NO, you may not. Unless they specifically ask which runway you want, shut up, take what they give you, and do not speak on the radio. At all. They need every bit of frequency time they can get - Their mic was pretty much open. Stepping on ATC helps nobody! Because of that, they were having to repeat instructions and couldn't talk fast enough to give the arriving aircraft instructions in time.

Result? A controller had to jump on and press the reset button. "All aircraft past Ripon, turn left heading 270 immediately, proceed back to Ripon and start over."

</rant>

Please, read and follow the NOTAM. There is no reason to ever key a mic going into or out of Airventure VFR unless ATC specifically asks you a question. These controllers are the best of the best, let them do their job.
 
As we were approaching Fisk, someone was arguing with the controllers About what to do because "A Bonanza cut him off". "Make a right turn out of the arrival and rejoin at Ripon". "But..."


Dumbass. Shut up and fly the airplane.
 
Yeah, I always want to be on the inbound course a few miles SW of RIPON, not in a 45 AOB turning belly-up to the other traffic. I've seen a few cut the corner. It's like being on the playground as a kid, sort it out, no need to whine to the FISKE controller. Keep it safe too, no reason to add 'air rage' to the sky.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Pilot anti-authotarianism!
I saw 4 pilots ignore the flagmen despite shouting, waving, running!
"But I want to park with my friends!"
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Everything Cheesehead said is correct -- but this one is a problem EAA could resolve.

During the week of the show, you can go flying. To get back to your spot, you simply hold a sign up that says (for example) "Row 572". It works great. The flagmen let you pass to get there.

When people are arriving, it should be possible to do the same. If I've got people who arrived yesterday, and there is a spot there that they have set up for me, I should be able to hold up a sign that says "Row 516" (for example) to get to my group.

I say this because I've done it, and it worked fine -- except for the EAA volunteer who didn't want me to pass. The fact that ALL of my camping gear was set up on that spot just didn't seem to register with him. (Our gear lives in OSH year round.)

I finally got through to him that, yes, I already had a campsite, but it was silly and difficult. He must've thought we were going to go park sideways at the end of the row, or something?

And, yes, I know EAA has tried doing "corrals" for group reservations. Unfortunately, they put them on the North side of RWY 27, as far from the show as possible. No one in our group wants to waste an hour trying to get from there to the front gate (yes, we've timed it, when the busses were full).

It's not a big deal -- we are flying in today, and if it doesn't work, so be it (we are in Janesville right now, caffeinating) -- but it's something EAA might consider changing.



Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
 
Jay Honeck said:
Everything Cheesehead said is correct -- but this one is a problem EAA could resolve.

When people are arriving, it should be possible to do the same. If I've got people who arrived yesterday, and there is a spot there that they have set up for me, I should be able to hold up a sign that says "Row 516" (for example) to get to my group.
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Yes, clearly if you are popular it should be a license to have someone hold a spot for you. EAA's lack of enlightenment towards the entitled gentry should be addressed.
 
Volunteered for parking yesterday and today, am seeing that most pilots pay attention to us. Few are very assertive with their aircraft and just don't pay attention. We're directing you in a specific direction for a reason. You may not be following the plane ahead of you for a reason.

And turn off your damn taxi lights when you're on the ground. They're blinding to us.

Saw a bunch of near misses on 27 yesterday. There's quite a few low wing pilots that don't seem to know their short field landing procedures and carry way too much speed. Saw a Mooney almost get landed on because they had too much speed. Saw another get 5 landings in on one go. Again, way too much speed.

And castering nosewheels seem like a really dumb idea, especially on grass. He'll, you spend a million on a plane, at least they could give you a steerable nosewheels.

Saw some impressive slips from cub and champ pilots having fun hitting the dots.
 
The light thing never even occurred to me. Will strive to make it a priority to comply.
 
Cirus drivers trying to get something under the wheels before they sink in
 

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UngaWunga said:
Volunteered for parking yesterday and today, am seeing that most pilots pay attention to us. Few are very assertive with their aircraft and just don't pay attention. We're directing you in a specific direction for a reason. You may not be following the plane ahead of you for a reason.

And castering nosewheels seem like a really dumb idea, especially on grass. He'll, you spend a million on a plane, at least they could give you a steerable nosewheels.

Saw some impressive slips from cub and champ pilots having fun hitting the dots.
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Question; do parkers actually look at the signs pilot's hold up, or can they easily see them?

On 2 of my first 3 arrivals in my 1995 Maule, I was directed all around the airport and finally directed to vintage camping or parking(?). First time I didn't have a clue what was going on until I was directed past the entrance, upon which I stopped, shut down and peed... thought I would have arrived 15 mins ago. Second time I just went with and let them direct to a vintage spot and took my GA sign down.... of course some vintage guy saw the mistake and kicked me out. I mean it's just a tail wheel Maule, nothing exotic or vintage about it.

BTW, castering nosewheels are just as agile as a plane with a steerable wheel. No idea why one would think otherwise except due to inexperience. Bonus Points: the fun game to play is to see how much taxiing you can do without touching the brakes, especially fun on grass.

BTW2, Maule Drivers hit the spot without needing a slip!
 
Parkers can see the signs if you hold them up in your windshield. Sometimes we do end up playing plane pong, but we're all volunteers and some signs are hard to read in a windshield when a plane is coming right at you. And we occasionally **** up.
 
UngaWunga said:
Parkers can see the signs if you hold them up in your windshield. Sometimes we do end up playing plane pong, but we're all volunteers and some signs are hard to read in a windshield when a plane is coming right at you. And we occasionally **** up.
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I've always meant to thank you folks for all that hard work out in the sun, so thanks. I can't imagine how EAA would pull this off without you.
 
UngaWunga said:
Saw a bunch of near misses on 27 yesterday. There's quite a few low wing pilots that don't seem to know their short field landing procedures and carry way too much speed. Saw a Mooney almost get landed on because they had too much speed. Saw another get 5 landings in on one go. Again, way too much speed.
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This brings up another thing. People don't think about the procedures beforehand, and practice the things they'll need to do.

One of those things is to maintain 90 knots as far into the approach as possible, so that the guy behind you doesn't run up your tail and have to go around (or worse, cause an accident). But people don't usually see what it takes to slow from 90 knots to landing speed in the descent from pattern altitude, so they screw it up and land fast.

Or, they may just land fast all the time. Tons of that in GA.

If you're going to make one big trip a year... DON'T make it into the busiest airport in the world. Would you go for a $100 hamburger at O'Hare or Hartsfield for your first flight in spring?

Some things that should be practiced before needing to perform them in front of a huge crowd:
  1. The aforementioned slowing from 90 knots as close to touchdown as you can make it. (all approaches)
  2. Starting your descent on downwind, and touching down pretty much immediately upon rolling out on "final". (18L/R approach)
  3. Making short approaches (mainly 27)
  4. Maintaining exactly 90 knots and 1800 feet MSL, with the gear down. What power setting does your plane need for that?
  5. Exiting the runway into the grass at 20-30 knots.
If everyone mastered these five things in addition to basic airmanship (and NOTAM reading comprehension), Oshkosh would be smoother and much safer. Don't take that to mean OSH is unsafe - It's amazingly safe, but it is unsafe to those who are not proficient with their airplanes in a non-cross country environment. If you're good at slow flight and pattern work, great! You'll be safe. But every year, a couple of people manage to stall at low altitude because they're not one with their planes. Don't be that guy.
 
N659HB said:
Exit the runway at 20-30 knots? Really?
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As fast as you can safely do it. Yes, really. Unless you want someone else rear-ending you or going around 10 feet above your head.

And yes, into the grass. It amazes me when someone loiters on the runway as if to await taxi instructions, or putters down to the next paved taxiway. That usually results in multiple go-arounds.
 
And if you are flying a Bonanza or other aircraft with an ASI calibrated in MPH (and Knots), remember it's 90 KNOTS you F/$(;@:))!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
flyingcheesehead said:
As fast as you can safely do it. Yes, really. Unless you want someone else rear-ending you or going around 10 feet above your head.

And yes, into the grass. It amazes me when someone loiters on the runway as if to await taxi instructions, or putters down to the next paved taxiway. That usually results in multiple go-arounds.
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Thanks for the tip. I'll try to remember that should I ever attend. Just don't marshall me ahead of a Bearcat when we're leaving.
 
And pineapple chunks infused with rum are quite nice as you're judging landings. :popcorn:
 
Castering nosewheels.....
Saw three cirus (ciri?) end up like this today
 

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I would love to chill out at The Kosh but I still have zero desire to fly in. And I mean zeeroh.
 
I MAY be in the minority here but all the things mentioned above is why I don't have a desire to fly into Oshkosh. First and foremost, I hate crowds and dumb people. I get enough air show experience twice a year here at home and I work most of it for my job. Second, I hate camping and feeling like I need a shower and I've done a lot of it over my years and have decided that I like air conditioning and electricity way too much to sleep in a tent in the bugs and weather.

There, I said it.
 
eman1200 said:
I would love to chill out at The Kosh but I still have zero desire to fly in. And I mean zeeroh.
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Timbeck2 said:
I MAY be in the minority here but all the things mentioned above is why I don't have a desire to fly into Oshkosh. First and foremost, I hate crowds and dumb people. I get enough air show experience twice a year here at home and I work most of it for my job. Second, I hate camping and feeling like I need a shower and I've done a lot of it over my years and have decided that I like air conditioning and electricity way too much to sleep in a tent in the bugs and weather.

There, I said it.
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Heretic! :D

I kid! I kid!
 
Timbeck2 said:
I MAY be in the minority here but all the things mentioned above is why I don't have a desire to fly into Oshkosh. First and foremost, I hate crowds and dumb people. I get enough air show experience twice a year here at home and I work most of it for my job. Second, I hate camping and feeling like I need a shower and I've done a lot of it over my years and have decided that I like air conditioning and electricity way too much to sleep in a tent in the bugs and weather.

There, I said it.
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Fine, then stay home. You don't sound like you'd be much fun to have around anyway.

Why do some people insist on detailing reasons they don't like something that many people thoroughly enjoy?
 
RalphInCA said:
Fine, then stay home. You don't sound like you'd be much fun to have around anyway.

Why do some people insist on detailing reasons they don't like something that many people thoroughly enjoy?
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Wow Ralph, judge much? I'm going to let it go because you don't know me and I don't know you. ;)
 
Des I didn't say anything about not loving airplanes. All I said was that I hate crowds (and I'll be more specific, meaning: large crowds) and dumb people, feeling dirty and sweaty, and sleeping in a tent with bugs and weather. I had no idea other people "thoroughly enjoyed" those things. My apologies to those who do.
 
I hate dumb people too, but I'm not going for the people... especially the dumb ones. And I actually do thoroughly enjoy camping :D
 
Timbeck2 said:
I MAY be in the minority here but all the things mentioned above is why I don't have a desire to fly into Oshkosh. First and foremost, I hate crowds and dumb people. I get enough air show experience twice a year here at home and I work most of it for my job. Second, I hate camping and feeling like I need a shower and I've done a lot of it over my years and have decided that I like air conditioning and electricity way too much to sleep in a tent in the bugs and weather.

There, I said it.
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Did my obligatory trip flying into OSH. Once is enough. Prefer Appleton - less traffic and the hotel is close by. Not a camper since high school. Altho...camping in August for the eclipse to avoid the Monday morning-worse-than-stupid-Oshkosh-flyers-that-don't-read-the-notam.
 
RalphInCA said:
Fine, then stay home. You don't sound like you'd be much fun to have around anyway.

Why do some people insist on detailing reasons they don't like something that many people thoroughly enjoy?
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And why do some people denigrate others for not enjoying something they enjoy?
 
I used to like camping too until I had a few miserable trips. Waking up in a pool of your own sweat. Waking up in three inches of water with a wet, collapsed tent on top of you. A camping buddy that insists on bringing his dog that got sprayed by a skunk or a camping partner that rattles you out of your sleeping bag with their snoring will do that to ya. ;)
 
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