I need 1 cylinder to go 300 hours. What to get?

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Artimas

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Artimas
Continental IO-520 engine.
I have 6 ECI cylinders that need to be removed per AD in about 300 hours. That's also when my engine reaches TBO. My plan was to get a new or overhauled engine then, but it turns out that I need 1 of the cylinders replaced now.

I was thinking about an overhauled cylinder, if I can even find one. I know they have an unknown history, but it only needs to last 300 hours.

If I can't find an overhauled, I suppose I'll need a new one. That means either TCM or Superior. Just get what's cheapest?

What would you do?
 
Call a cylinder shop with your request, they should have what you need.
 
What AD are we dealing with. I'm not up to speed with this issue on ECI cylinders.
 
Ravioli said:
Well... why would a 300 hour cylinder not be acceptable to keep in the overhaul?
That would depend on how it failed, called out on a AD by serial number would be good reason it could not be re-used.
I'm going to start the popcorn machine. :popcorn:
@Tom-D and @GlennAB1 will help us all understand this issue. :stirpot:
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Do you really believe either of us can make "us all" understand anything?
Start a conversation, I have a bridge for sale.
 
Artimas said:
What would you do?
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I'd probably call a salvage yard and find a used and hope it goes 300 hours.

I can get new IO 520 cylinders (superior) for just over 1400.
 
Ravioli said:
Well... why would a 300 hour cylinder not be acceptable to keep in the overhaul?
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My thinking too. That doesn’t make a lick of sense.


So all you need is a disposable cylinder so the engine can limp along for another 300hrs to OH? :dunno:

Maybe it just doesn’t register with me since it’s after 2am. I will take a second look at this after I get a few Zzzz’s. G’night!
 
AD2016-16-12 presumably. It puts a life limit on the cylinder of 1160 hours total time or 320 hours past the adoption of the AD (September 2016).

Frankly, since you're going to loosen the case up changing the one cylinder now, I'd be highly inclined to just do the overhaul now. I have some ugly pictures of what can happen to an IO-550 after a single cylinder pull. (And no for those who are keeping score, I never got a reasonable explanation from either the NTSB which stonewalled me or the CORRUPT moneygrubbers at Continental).
 
Artimas said:
Continental IO-520 engine.
I have 6 ECI cylinders that need to be removed per AD in about 300 hours. That's also when my engine reaches TBO. My plan was to get a new or overhauled engine then, but it turns out that I need 1 of the cylinders replaced now.

I was thinking about an overhauled cylinder, if I can even find one. I know they have an unknown history, but it only needs to last 300 hours.

If I can't find an overhauled, I suppose I'll need a new one. That means either TCM or Superior. Just get what's cheapest?

What would you do?
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What went wrong with that one cylinder? Maybe some of the others are on borrowed time. Seeing's how you're planning on replacing the engine at TBO maybe you'll be better off in the long run to just do it now. Just an idea, it's your piggy bank. How many hours a year do you fly?
 
AD2016-16-12. What a pizzing contest, The FAA did stone wall every attempt to keep cracked cylinder heads in service. (can't say as I blame them)

Knowing that you have 6 cylinders prone to cracking and only 300 hours to TBO.
I'd dump that engine anyway I could, as a core for a new one? A rebuilder at any overhaul shop?
This is one case I'd advise a rebuilt from the factory. your engine IMHO is nothing but a run out core.
This AD is the best example I have seen for rental engines. (Power by the hour)
 
How comfortable are you,that the other cylinders are going to make the 300 hrs. Might be better to overhaul or replace the motor now.
 
Lots of engine shops keep a few overhauled cylinders on the shelves. Call a few. You’ll find a cylinder easily enough.
 
Your idea of replacing one cylinder with one that is nearing being a run-out is false economy.
 
luvflyin said:
What went wrong with that one cylinder? Maybe some of the others are on borrowed time. Seeing's how you're planning on replacing the engine at TBO maybe you'll be better off in the long run to just do it now. Just an idea, it's your piggy bank. How many hours a year do you fly?
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:yeahthat:
frfly172 said:
How comfortable are you,that the other cylinders are going to make the 300 hrs. Might be better to overhaul or replace the motor now.
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:yeahthat:
teejayevans said:
I would bite the bullet and OH now.
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:yeahthat:

I obviously concur.
 
The other 5 cylinders are all good. I am strongly leaning towards just replacing the one cylinder. I know there are many who think that pulling cylinders is a bad idea, but I just can't see doing the whole engine for 1 bad cylinder. If a couple more go, then yes, I'll do the engine. I fly 100 hours per year, that's 3 years to go.

I'm leaning towards a new Superior jug. Perhaps I'll be able to use it with some new ones on a remanufactured engine when the time comes.
 
teejayevans said:
I would bite the bullet and OH now.
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He's cracked one cylinder in how many hours? Me? I'd bolt on a refurb and see if the one cracked cylinder is an outlier. Crack another one and its a trend.
 
300hrs could be 5 years for some. I see no need to rush to overhaul. Let's ask Mike Busch about this!
 
The pretty consistent experience from high volume shops that see a lot of Continentals is that these cylinders are, in fact, a lot worse than others. They are more prone to cracking. A friend of mine had 12 of them on his RAM IV T310R. All 12 of them cracked at 500 hours SNEW. While I have issues with how this AD is written, by replacing the one jug you're taking a bet that the other 5 will make it those 300 hours. You might have another next year, or all 5 next year. Worse of all, you might have one of them fail catastrophically (the whole reason the AD exists).

520s are engines that you can run past TBO pretty easily if they've been cared for. I ran the 310's engines 400 hours past TBO before deciding to overhaul, and there was nothing wrong with the bottom ends at that point - I did it because both engines had such bad compression (rings) that the props looked like turbines spinning down when you shut them off. I could've topped the engines and kept going, but at 2100 SMOH that seemed like false economy.

I'd top the engine and plan to run it past TBO. If you have 300 until TBO I'm assuming you're at 1400 SMOH, and with a top you should make 2000+ pretty easily.

As to which brand cylinder to use, I went with a new Superior on the 414 in November. I'm not sure who makes the best Continental cylinder anymore. It's always a moving target and I'm not sure anyone else knows who's currently making the best, either. The Superior, for what it's worth, has been working well.
 
kyleb said:
He's cracked one cylinder in how many hours? Me? I'd bolt on a refurb and see if the one cracked cylinder is an outlier. Crack another one and its a trend.
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So you are going to ignore the AD which he mentioned in his post?
My math is : AD + 1 bad cylinder + 300 till OH = do it now.
 
teejayevans said:
So you are going to ignore the AD which he mentioned in his post?
My math is : AD + 1 bad cylinder + 300 till OH = do it now.
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The AD isn't due for 300 hours. This is one cracked cylinder (after 1100 hours?). An engine rebuild is gonna set him back >$30k.

Yeah, I'm replacing the cylinder and moving on.
 
How does the AD and TBO happen at the same time unless these cylinders were installed during a top overhaul?

Still curious how the one cylinder failed.
 
Continental bottom ends are bulletproof. I'm betting that you could take one to 2x TBO and still not see serious degradation of the bearings or other wear parts. Cylinders are by Marshmallow. Soft as a baby's butt and prone to crack (the cylinders, not the baby's butt). I'd replace that one busted jug with one that has a few hundred hours left on it. If you are DETERMINED to do a major at TBO (not what I would do) I'd do a full-bore top with brand new cylinders from anybody other than Continental and run that sucker 2x tbo on those new cylinders and the old bottom end.
THEN do a full-house overhaul at 2x TBO.

Just sayin'

Jim
 
I decided to go with a new Superior Millennium cylinder. It was only $200 more than an overhauled once since the core is unusable (due to the AD).
If more cylinders start failing, I'll either top it and try to run past TBO, or perhaps consider a new engine at that time.
I still think doing a top or major for 1 cylinder is overkill. 300 hours is 3-4 years more flying before the rest of the cylinders "expire".
These 6 cylinders were put in during a top about 700 hours ago and replaced the factory Continental cylinders.
YMMV.
Thanks for the interesting discussion.
 
Artimas said:
The other 5 cylinders are all good.
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In that case I would replace just one cylinder and use the engine for the remaining 300 hours.

If the cost to R&R and overhaul a 520 is $40k (just guessing), and it has a tbo of 2000 hours, then delaying an overhaul is worth about $20 per hour. Multiply X 300 hours = $6k; that savings will easily pay for your one cylinder.

As others gave said, call some cylinder shops to find a repaired one.
 
I give you credit for waiting for information which justifies such a drastic measure, rather than blindly plunging forward.
 
Artimas said:
An update.
After my bad cylinder was pulled, a bad cam lobe and damaged lifter were found. I have decided to get a new engine.
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The bigger the hole gets, the bigger it needs to be.
 
Artimas said:
An update.
After my bad cylinder was pulled, a bad cam lobe and damaged lifter were found. I have decided to get a new engine.
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Sounds as though you handled it perfectly, hopefully you'll be able to have faith in this mechanic.
 
First off that AD was straight BS if you really read up on it.

But for the OP, if you're going to overhaul it, talk to the overhaul shop, or if you have a local AP/shop you trust to do the overhaul, have them do one cylinder and then the rest after 300hrs, if the one cylinder still passes no reason you can't use it for the overhaul and just buy 5 jugs at OH time.

Also worth looking into a 550 conversion at this point, I know when my 520 hits overhaul I'm going to 550 it.


Also check these guys out.

http://www.hotwaircraft.com
 
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