I ended up "woke" by default today

schmookeeg

schmookeeg

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Mike Brannigan
So in our daily teamwide status meeting today at one of my clients, someone mentioned that Monday is a holiday. I know very little about it, but have mentally just filed juneteenth as "Second MLK day" along with other holidays where I'm happy they exist, without knowing why.

The Montanan in our group went on a comedy bender though, and was very funny about how he was looking forward to Julyteenth and Augustteenth next, and what a stupid name for a holiday and wtf is it even for anyway?

This was preceded by the same person ranting about having to do a 30 minute diversity and inclusivity training, so double cringe score for him today. I told him privately "dude you basically attended our standup meeting in a bedsheet today" Unfortunately I think he is a loud version of what others on the team actually feel -- it doesn't concern them and it's all so much nonsense.

My sole African-american colleague kept silent and smiling throughout. I noted he'd likely be a wicked poker opponent.

Our CTO ignored the antics and moved on to neutral topics without even addressing things or dropping knowledge.

This annoyed me, so I posted a Juneteenth link into our Slack chatroom and mentioned the history is actually interesting and worth looking into. It's been ignored. I think I made it weirder. Sigh.

...and it is actually interesting history. I spent the morning reading up on the Galveston situation and where this meeting of law, education, and enforcement hit the ground after the Civil War.

However, in my search, I didn't really find any single source that was a satisfying summary of the reason for the Holiday. I had to scratch around all over the place and piece it together for myself. My coworkers are unlikely to do this for themselves.

I could find bios on General Gordon Granger and his General Order #3, which got equal footing with his deeds in the Battle of Chickamauga.

I could find real heartfelt "how I feel" stories and anecdotes that don't set the historical stage, or denounce juneteenth as superior "to me" over July 4, etc.

I could find some hand-waving "in the wake of police shootings and rah rah, we decided to cop out with a new holiday"

...but no real single source acted as an in-depth "Hey, here's why this matters in context" I could share with others.

Anyone have any good sources/reads for those who may want to inform themselves? I'm also still pretty new to the subject and it's fascinating me.

Work is now awkward AF which gives me cover to research this stuff instead of doing real coding. :D

Appreciate any sources/leads/Cali bashing this may engender :P
 
When you are retired everyday is a holiday. Treat everybody with the same respect (unless they show they are unworthy of respect) and diversity training is not needed. :)
 
If we stopped celebrating holidays when the majority has no idea why we are celebrating, we wouldn't have any holidays.

 
I saw a reference to "Emancipation Day Celebrations In Texas" yesterday and I think that is a more dignified name for Monday, but if the Fed government wants to call it Juneteenth, based on an informed opinion, then so be it.

My employer came up with a policy for working on Monday, based on customer need...
 
@schmookeeg
My condolences. Your cringeworthy colleague sounds like half my family. Only charitable thing I can say is that maybe if he doesn't know what it is, he's just talking out of his a**.
No doubt that the world has gone completely berserk in their quest for all things 'woke', but some of the things (like making Juneteenth a holiday) actually do make sense when you acquire an understanding of what the event was. Not only do they make sense, they're long overdue.
Now the other 99% of things people are pushing? No thanks :)
 
I know my grandparents refused to celebrate 04 July because that's the day when Vicksburg fell.
 
Good on you.

Your next good deed is to subtly and respectfully educate people on the distinction between Memorial Day, Armed Forces Day, and Veterans Day.
 
Van Johnston said:
Good on you.

Your next good deed is to subtly and respectfully educate people on the distinction between Memorial Day, Armed Forces Day, and Veterans Day.
Click to expand...

yes
...and presidents day, and .....oh never mind.....
.....I wonder how that Hallmark stock is doing lately.....
 
schmookeeg said:
…However, in my search, I didn't really find any single source that was a satisfying summary of the reason for the Holiday.
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Much like most federal (not national) holidays the reason is to grant federal workers a paid day off.

Having grown up in Texas, we learned about Juneteenth as part of 7th grade Texas History as the beginning of the end of the Civil War and slavery in Texas. Still took a while for word to both get out and be enforced not just in Texas, but nationwide. The event is historic for cultural and political reasons in Texas, but until recently it hasn’t really been on the national spotlight and I don’t have a good reason why it should be singled out, as each of the southern states had a version of a Juneteenth day in their own right (Georgia’s is May 29th for instance).

What’s awkward is black history month does not coincide with the Emancipation Proclamation, the signing of the Compensated Emancipation Act, or any of the state emancipation days, all of which contribute to the history.
 
TCABM said:
What’s awkward is black history month does not coincide with the Emancipation Proclamation, the signing of the Compensated Emancipation Act, or any of the state emancipation days, all of which contribute to the history.
Click to expand...

As Barney would say, "Everybody knows that" :D

 
FWIW, it appears that some states already had this as a State Holiday. Culturally it was celebrated in the community with get togethers, picnics etc, the usual holiday stuff. Some in the community didn’t particularly like the Federalization of the Holiday.
 
Textron a while back came and hung up posters (and changed our screen savers) to have the slogan "Rethink Diversity." Of course, in typical Textron style, all fluff and no substance. We never got an explanation of what on earth they were talking about.

Rethink Diversity? OK, I was for it, but I guess I can change.
 
flyingron said:
Textron a while back came and hung up posters (and changed our screen savers) to have the slogan "Rethink Diversity." Of course, in typical Textron style, all fluff and no substance. We never got an explanation of what on earth they were talking about.

Rethink Diversity? OK, I was for it, but I guess I can change.
Click to expand...
Maybe you weren't for it. That's the beauty of these vanity movements. Lord knows what they really mean by it, and odds are you don't 100% agree.

Does diversity mean an environment that everyone can be comfortable? Or does it mean that there are no less than 13% black executives to match the 13% black population in general, whether the execs are capable or not? If 5% of the population are white supremacists, should there be 5% of the execs that are white supremacists?
 
Daleandee said:
When you are retired everyday is a holiday. Treat everybody with the same respect (unless they show they are unworthy of respect) and diversity training is not needed. :)
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Yes- unfortunately, some people aren't so logical.
MauleSkinner said:
I think our last harassment training event pointed out that harassment cases and/or complaints often increase after harassment training.
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So the training worked? Forklift training teaches a person how to drive a forklift, safety training teaches us safety, and harassment training teaches us how to harass. ;)
 
luvflyin said:
Hmm. That might lead to a reduction to get it down to 5%
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lol I'm sure in some cases. But the question is, is that the right way to look at things?
 
I don’t know what Juneteenth is other than the explanation posted above, I don’t get that day off, and it’s not in my calendar. Maybe the next one will have it huh? I’m not sure if having another holiday is actually worthwhile for whatever we are honoring. I can’t keep tract of all the various days weeks and months honoring all the various groups and events but if it makes them happy, I’ll deal with it…
 
As mentioned before it used to be every 7th grade Texan was taught about General order # 3 announced by MG Gordon Granger from the balcony of Ashton Villa on Broadway in Galveston…on June 19th…a year after the war ended. If you took a field trip to Galveston it was always part of the school tour. It’s a wedding/special event venue today and at one point my oldest was getting married there but Covid stopped the wedding.

If you want more info the Galveston historical society could probably give in-site…also look at “the Settlement” circa 1867, in Texas City just off the Island where free Black Cowboys working the Butler Ranch…particularly the Britton, Bell and Gary families…Frank Bell was a legend.

Just a white kid from England who grew up in Texas…and some of Frank Bells decedents were friends of mine…just not sure how it translates to a national holiday…but it is an has been important for Texans for my lifetime. Ask someone who grew up in Tulsa about Black Wall-street and the riots…and they have been taught in middle schools as well and know all about it. Some reason a couple of years ago it grabbed national attention like it was a secret…Tulsa years before had preserved and reminded people who were interested about this dark spot in history…If you get a chance it’s a reason to go to Tulsa…
 
schmookeeg said:
So in our daily teamwide status meeting today at one of my clients, someone mentioned that Monday is a holiday. I know very little about it, but have mentally just filed juneteenth as "Second MLK day" along with other holidays where I'm happy they exist, without knowing why.

The Montanan in our group went on a comedy bender though, and was very funny about how he was looking forward to Julyteenth and Augustteenth next, and what a stupid name for a holiday and wtf is it even for anyway?

This was preceded by the same person ranting about having to do a 30 minute diversity and inclusivity training, so double cringe score for him today. I told him privately "dude you basically attended our standup meeting in a bedsheet today" Unfortunately I think he is a loud version of what others on the team actually feel -- it doesn't concern them and it's all so much nonsense.

My sole African-american colleague kept silent and smiling throughout. I noted he'd likely be a wicked poker opponent.

Our CTO ignored the antics and moved on to neutral topics without even addressing things or dropping knowledge.

This annoyed me, so I posted a Juneteenth link into our Slack chatroom and mentioned the history is actually interesting and worth looking into. It's been ignored. I think I made it weirder. Sigh.

...and it is actually interesting history. I spent the morning reading up on the Galveston situation and where this meeting of law, education, and enforcement hit the ground after the Civil War.

However, in my search, I didn't really find any single source that was a satisfying summary of the reason for the Holiday. I had to scratch around all over the place and piece it together for myself. My coworkers are unlikely to do this for themselves.

I could find bios on General Gordon Granger and his General Order #3, which got equal footing with his deeds in the Battle of Chickamauga.

I could find real heartfelt "how I feel" stories and anecdotes that don't set the historical stage, or denounce juneteenth as superior "to me" over July 4, etc.

I could find some hand-waving "in the wake of police shootings and rah rah, we decided to cop out with a new holiday"

...but no real single source acted as an in-depth "Hey, here's why this matters in context" I could share with others.

Anyone have any good sources/reads for those who may want to inform themselves? I'm also still pretty new to the subject and it's fascinating me.

Work is now awkward AF which gives me cover to research this stuff instead of doing real coding. :D

Appreciate any sources/leads/Cali bashing this may engender :p
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Why are you calling out the Montanan? What are you implying? I was just there and everyone was really nice to me. I encountered no prejudicial behavior. While I am not from not from Montana, I am officially offended by proxy.
 
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Warlock said:
As mentioned before it used to be every 7th grade Texan was taught about General order # 3 announced by MG Gordon Granger from the balcony of Ashton Villa on Broadway in Galveston…on June 19th…a year after the war ended. If you took a field trip to Galveston it was always part of the school tour. It’s a wedding/special event venue today and at one point my oldest was getting married there but Covid stopped the wedding.

If you want more info the Galveston historical society could probably give in-site…also look at “the Settlement” circa 1867, in Texas City just off the Island where free Black Cowboys working the Butler Ranch…particularly the Britton, Bell and Gary families…Frank Bell was a legend.

Just a white kid from England who grew up in Texas…and some of Frank Bells decedents were friends of mine…just not sure how it translates to a national holiday…but it is an has been important for Texans for my lifetime. Ask someone who grew up in Tulsa about Black Wall-street and the riots…and they have been taught in middle schools as well and know all about it. Some reason a couple of years ago it grabbed national attention like it was a secret…Tulsa years before had preserved and reminded people who were interested about this dark spot in history…If you get a chance it’s a reason to go to Tulsa…
Click to expand...

Any connection to Peter Hansborough Bell?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hansborough_Bell

As a former resident of Bell County, I found his story pretty interesting.
 
No connection Frank Bell Sr was a slave…Frank Bell Jr was also legendary..
 
Salty said:
lol I'm sure in some cases. But the question is, is that the right way to look at things?
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Nah. I deleted it just after I posted it because I thought that’s just gonna stir things up. But it looks like you were right on top of it. I’ll own it.
 
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schmookeeg said:
I know very little about it, but have mentally just filed juneteenth as "Second MLK day" along with other holidays
Click to expand...

I find it to be very interesting in that Juneteenth was sort of like a "secret holiday" until recently. We celebrated it but it was kind of understood and accepted that many outside of the group didn't know about it. (This is pre-smartphone)

I kind of preferred some aspects of the "secret holiday" as it used to avoid the issues that plague other holidays. Kinda like how it should feel odd to use Memorial day to get the best prices of the season on the newest appliance or car.
 
Warlock said:
As mentioned before it used to be every 7th grade Texan was taught about General order # 3 announced by MG Gordon Granger
Click to expand...

Warlock said:
Ask someone who grew up in Tulsa about Black Wall-street and the riots…and they have been taught in middle schools as well
Click to expand...
Never heard about neither in school.
 
luvflyin said:
Nah. I deleted it just after I posted it because I thought that’s just gonna stir things up. But it looks like you were right on top of it. I’ll own it.
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I think it was one of the less controversial posts.
 
Warlock said:
If you get a chance it’s a reason to go to Tulsa…
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With all respect to the history of this event, it isn't a reason to go to Tulsa. I love steak, and that also isn't a reason to go to Tulsa. (Yes, I did spend a night there, once.)
 
idahoflier said:
How is being from Montana relevant? :rolleyes:
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Haha. In the room of mostly white boring nerds, it was really the only delineator I could latch onto. Any implication that "Well this is just typical of someone in Montana" was not intended. Perhaps a new holiday will soothe any hurt feelings? :D o_O

However, in my defense, this is also the only team member who has brandished weaponry on a Zoom call. I understand he was quietly told to knock it off as it was making others uncomfortable.

It's a weird client relationship.

I'm in the SF Bay and I have only barely heard "juneteenth" recently, but nothing about it. Amazing it was in TX history class, and somehow skipped CA. "Secret Holiday" is about right.

Cheers to those who sent over links for me to pore over and think on.
 
Salty said:
Maybe you weren't for it. That's the beauty of these vanity movements. Lord knows what they really mean by it, and odds are you don't 100% agree.

Does diversity mean an environment that everyone can be comfortable? Or does it mean that there are no less than 13% black executives to match the 13% black population in general, whether the execs are capable or not? If 5% of the population are white supremacists, should there be 5% of the execs that are white supremacists?
Click to expand...
I don't believe any of those fits my definition of diversity.
 
schmookeeg said:
…I'm in the SF Bay and I have only barely heard "juneteenth" recently, but nothing about it. Amazing it was in TX history class, and somehow skipped CA.
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Why is it weird we learn about it in our state history class? You probably learned about California history is your state history class. We sure didn’t spend any time on California history in Texas because it’s largely irrelevant to our state.

Juneteenth is very specific to Texas history and culture. I would not expect anybody outside of Texas to learn about it in their state history class. Just like I don’t learn about California state history stuff in Texas.

The only relevance the day has to the other 49 states is that it is now a paid day off for federal employees. Nothin more, nothing less.
 
Juneteenth is real? I thought it was something made up or a reference to something in pop culture. Whenever people are yammering about something I’ve never heard of it’s often something from popular culture. I tend to ignore that stuff.

I just treat everyone the same and if someone has something to say they find important I’m pretty good at appearing to listen.
 
schmookeeg said:
Haha. In the room of mostly white boring nerds, it was really the only delineator I could latch onto. Any implication that "Well this is just typical of someone in Montana" was not intended. Perhaps a new holiday will soothe any hurt feelings? :D o_O

However, in my defense, this is also the only team member who has brandished weaponry on a Zoom call. I understand he was quietly told to knock it off as it was making others uncomfortable.

It's a weird client relationship.

I'm in the SF Bay and I have only barely heard "juneteenth" recently, but nothing about it. Amazing it was in TX history class, and somehow skipped CA. "Secret Holiday" is about right.

Cheers to those who sent over links for me to pore over and think on.
Click to expand...
A gun made someone uncomfortable on a zoom call? That’s funny. Life is so entertaining.
 
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