I cannot believe what I just saw...

Fearless Tower said:
If his aircraft is burning that much oil on one bag of gas that it requires refilling under those circumstances....
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Of course it burns oil, the same worn rings that cause the high oil consumption also cause the low compression that make it so hard to start :wink2:
 
I just can't imagine being anywhere in front of the wing with the engine running... nor can I imagine stepping out of the plane with the engine running. I rather enjoy all my body parts being attached to me.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Tom, hot fueling in the Navy is SOP. We TRAIN for that. It is a routine operation and multiple people are involved all of whom are qualified or working under qualified supervision. And, because it's Navy....there are always safety observers present.

You cannot compare what we do in the Navy to a single pilot hot-fueling an Arrow at an FBO.
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Probably have a requirement to always have at least one pilot on the controls as well. At least that's how we operated. Pretty sure we weren't allowed gravity fuel either. Always did either closed circuit or pressure in the hot pits.
 
DavidWhite said:
He's ok doing all that shady stuff but too much of a ***** to hand prop it?
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I can always trust DW to say the things I bite my tongue on. :) As far as the hot start goes, it'll cool off. And maybe he would too after he thought about it for a couple of hours.

Fearless Tower said:
As far as offering to hold the brakes, that is the last thing the OP should do. The OP works for the FBO. If he assists the guy with hot fueling, and something goes wrong, the OP is now just as liable as the pilot.
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Worrying about what the lawyers will do after the fact is never a good reason to not do the right thing. If the guy is dead set on doing something risky and you don't tell him he's crazy but you'll at least lend a hand to make it marginally safer, you're an awful human being.

Hell if you're worried about the lawsuit just whip out your camera phone and videotape you telling him he's an idiot but you're not going to let an airplane sit running on your ramp without someone at the controls.

Or, if you really want to do the right thing, reach inside and shut it off. Now he has a new perspective and an all new chance to make the right decision. What's he going to do, sue you for shutting off his busted starter airplane? Let him yell and whine. He'll get over it.

Nobody's going to take his side in a "get-there-itis" attitude that was that bad.

Standing and staring: Worst possible option.

Not shutting off pump: Also bad.

Offering to hold brakes: Better. Still wrong but better.

Shutting off his unattended aircraft: Best decision you'd have made all day.

A jury would ask why you didn't do the last one. Especially once they heard he walked off to take a leak.
 
DesertNomad said:
I just can't imagine being anywhere in front of the wing with the engine running... nor can I imagine stepping out of the plane with the engine running. I rather enjoy all my body parts being attached to me.
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Linemen do it multiple times a day.

I do get annoyed at the ones that won't offset themselves so they won't be run over though. There's a reason the hand and wand signals exist. You don't have to stand on the line to tell me I'm not on it.
 
DesertNomad said:
I just can't imagine being anywhere in front of the wing with the engine running...
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I've adjusted carbs, set prop governors checked for oil leaks and a lot of other stuff with the engine running. not a big deal.

But I don't know if opening the cowl to add oil is a good idea.
 
Tom-D said:
But I don't know if opening the cowl to add oil is a good idea.
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Opening the oil access panel isn't a big deal on the later Arrows. Dunno about the older Arrows.

Still, maybe you know oil consumption to a gnat's ass, maybe ya don't. I'm pretty sure most folks run a quart or so low to minimize oil out the breather tube. Adding an extra quart shouldn't hurt the engine although it prolly won't help it either.
 
Clark1961 said:
Opening the oil access panel isn't a big deal on the later Arrows. Dunno about the older Arrows.

Still, maybe you know oil consumption to a gnat's ass, maybe ya don't. I'm pretty sure most folks run a quart or so low to minimize oil out the breather tube. Adding an extra quart shouldn't hurt the engine although it prolly won't help it either.
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Even at motor minimum idle speed. You will have 30-35 mph wind blowing over the cowling from a prop 21" away.......

I still say , there is NO way your could pour a quart into that motor without spilling at least half of it.. IMHO...
 
N801BH said:
Even at motor minimum idle speed. You will have 30-35 mph wind blowing over the cowling from a prop 21" away.......

I still say , there is NO way your could pour a quart into that motor without spilling at least half of it.. IMHO...
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I've got a little spout that screws onto the quart oil container so I could get the oil into the engine if I had to. Maybe this guy had one, maybe he poured a quart of oil on the engine. Either way, pretty f'n stupid to not shut-down.
 
Has the guy made headlines yet? Is he chop-suey?

Pilots can be the biggest dumbasses. I hand propped a Cessna for an older guy who landed with a hot chick to take a pee on a Sunday and he couldn't re-start. I was the only help around. I could tell he was getting nervous as hell and wanted out of there. He said "I need to get her back home" and said it was his "real estate agent."

If you're going to cheat on your wife and rely on general aviation to do it, here's your sign. :rolleyes2:
 
txflyer said:
Has the guy made headlines yet? Is he chop-suey?

Pilots can be the biggest dumbasses. I hand propped a Cessna for an older guy who landed with a hot chick to take a pee on a Sunday and he couldn't re-start. I was the only help around. I could tell he was getting nervous as hell and wanted out of there. He said "I need to get her back home" and said it was his "real estate agent."

If you're going to cheat on your wife and rely on general aviation to do it, here's your sign. :rolleyes2:
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That's better than the guy who did that in Vegas and she walked through the prop. Hard to explain that one away. Ha.
 
weilke said:
20 times/day, 7 days/week during the season. So you are basically dead but dont know it yet.
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Some days are way more than 20 loads. We only fly 6 days a week, though. Some places do seven, but not me. We're all basically dead without knowing it yet.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
How do you know it's poison he was spraying that day? Just curious.
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They are not spraying to make the potatoes smell good, it's a poison for something, funghi, bugs, weeds....
 
N801BH said:
Even at motor minimum idle speed. You will have 30-35 mph wind blowing over the cowling from a prop 21" away.......

I still say , there is NO way your could pour a quart into that motor without spilling at least half of it.. IMHO...
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Never tried it with the engine running, but I could get 90% of the oil in there w/o a funnel. Its kinda like a 1G roll...
 
Tarheelpilot said:
We also spray foliar feed nutrients quite a bit. Then there are all the organic goodies sprayed on organic crops.
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N801BH said:
Hmmmm

I "thought" organic meant strictly unmollested growing...:confused::confused:
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Organic could also refer to a compound containing carbon (and usually hydrogen so as to eliminate such compounds as carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide). Hence the branch of chemistry "organic chemistry"

So all crops/food stuff ore "organic" in one sense, but yes, most people would consider "Organic foods" be be grown or raised under certain conditions, rather than the chemistry definition of "organic"
 
Fearless Tower said:
No kidding. Doesn't that kind if defeat the whole concept of organic?
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I thought the concept was branding a product and making bookoo $$$.


Unless your food was grown in sterile petri dish how was it not molested by outside environmental factors?
 
bnt83 said:
I thought the concept was branding a product and making bookoo $$$.


Unless your food was grown in sterile petri dish how was it not molested by outside environmental factors?
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Bingo.
 
Well organic crops get sprayed with organic products. I.e. They are naturally occurring, not synthetic compounds. Whether or not those products are superior to synthetic compounds is debatable. In many cases they have a larger footprint on off target insects and are more persistent in the environment. As far as using an aircraft for spraying the carbon footprint is much smaller than ground application.

I'm just pointing out the presence of an aircraft in a field doesn't necessarily indicate poison, death and environmental damage.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I'm just pointing out the presence of an aircraft in a field doesn't necessarily indicate poison, death and environmental damage.
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The guy I saw hotloading was spraying potatoes for McDonalds. Pretty sure he wasn't seeding rice or nourishing organic tofu trees.
 
Dave Theisen said:
I've seen you make that statement before, so I'm curious, what makes it illegal in the Navion any more so than other planes.
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Because there's a placard on the panel that is required to be there that says "DO NOT ENTER OR EXIT THE AIRCRAFT WHILE THE ENGINE IS RUNNING"

This was almost certainly put there because the standard canopy Navion is exited by coming off the FRONT of the wing. The step and handhold are within three feet of the prop.

This is a different story from exiting an Cherokee off the back of the wing or a Skyhawk behind the wing strut. But even then, I won't do it.
 
I find it hilarious how you guys are still "debating" this.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Debate? What the heck are you talking about. This thread is in full drift.

Get with the program- We're talking about Lamar Odom now!
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He's the lucky one in the cast of males who hooked up with that toxic clan. One lost his wee-wee, the other one turned into a raging drunk.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
zackly.....:yikes::hairraise::yikes:
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In today's world, that will get you arrested for exposing yourself, and a lifetime of registering as a sex offender. Hot fueling his aircraft is the least of his infractions.....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Of all the unusual things that the guy did, what bothers me most is that "he HAD to get to Florida." Not a safe mindset. He proved it to be even more hazardous by proving how desperate he was to get there.
 
flyingron said:
This is a different story from exiting an Cherokee off the back of the wing or a Skyhawk behind the wing strut. But even then, I won't do it.
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I've offloaded pax with the engine running. After a very thorough brief, by the way, that included the phrase "you are not to return to the airplane for anything whatsoever". I stopped a couple times in front of the restaurant to let off Mrs. Steingar so she didn't have to suffer in the heat. Making the experience more comfortable means she might be more inclined to do it again. Could have shut down, but the hot restart was a real pain, so I just did a hot de-planing. I'd do it again too. The risk is low so long as the passenger doesn't do anything stupid.
 
I'm close to finishing my PPL, and this thread is one of the things I find completely obnoxious about the aviation community. The community is just completely infested with cranks that think they have a god-given right to get up in anyone else's face whenever they are doing something wrong. Whatever happened to the old fashioned idea of minding your own business and not sticking your nose where it isn't wanted? It really is a huge turn-off and doesn't make me really care about treating this hobby as a social outlet.
 
mercurial said:
I'm close to finishing my PPL, and this thread is one of the things I find completely obnoxious about the aviation community. The community is just completely infested with cranks that think they have a god-given right to get up in anyone else's face whenever they are doing something wrong. Whatever happened to the old fashioned idea of minding your own business and not sticking your nose where it isn't wanted? It really is a huge turn-off and doesn't make me really care about treating this hobby as a social outlet.
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Does your ID show you living in San Francisco,California???:dunno:
 
I live in the surrounding area, not SF proper. And yea, you're right, the political posturing by various interest groups in SF proper is also obnoxious. That being said, being upset and adversarial about broader matters of public policy is a little different than getting your panties all twisted because some doofus only put himself at slight risk when he filled up his running plane.
 
mercurial said:
I live in the surrounding area, not SF proper. And yea, you're right, the political posturing by various interest groups in SF proper is also obnoxious. That being said, being upset and adversarial about broader matters of public policy is a little different than getting your panties all twisted because some doofus only put himself at slight risk when he filled up his running plane.
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I was just teasing ya........

But, you are right about some posters taking it a bit tooooooo far..:redface:
 
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