How to solve the US pilot shortage

Whitney said:
I know 3 people who got to be airline pilots, all 3 quit, and although 2 still fly, its smaller planes, they HATED AIRLINES, and the lifestyle, the 3rd is now a truck driver.
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I know 100+ people who are airline pilots and love it. Plus countless others who have made a career changes to airline pilots. So what’s your point? There are people that love the job and people that don’t. It’s not a big deal.
 
A fair number of my neighbors are airline pilots. They’re some of the happiest, most satisfied people I know.
 
This thread keeps delivering.
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hindsight2020 said:
This thread keeps delivering.
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It certainly is entertaining, and brought me many smiles.

If airlines were well run and managed, they would have nothing but happy customers.

But the best part was when someone brought up a temporary pay raise to $81,000 annually. Had that number been $581,000 annually, and not just a temporary bump, I would have been somewhat impressed.
 
Whitney said:
But the best part was when someone brought up a temporary pay raise to $81,000 annually. Had that number been $581,000 annually, and not just a temporary bump, I would have been somewhat impressed.
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Okay, so your turn. Pilots don't generally cross shop truck driving careers, but I'll bite. Talk to us about the typical pay progression for a trucker, from fresh out of high school until established in their career. On a different thread you said that over a career the total income can be an order of magnitude more than a lawyer's. If you're going to say stuff like this, show your work.
 
luvflyin said:
And now for the follow up question. Which would they marry? Hmm. What's the pay difference between diggin and flyin nowadays anyway?
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The answer would be different between an airline pilot and a plumber. :D
 
Whitney said:
Had that number been $581,000 annually, and not just a temporary bump, I would have been somewhat impressed.
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For a 23 year old kid just a few months out of college? That's the top 1% of US household, not even individual, incomes.

If you don't want to be an airline pilot then don't be one. We don't care. Nobody wants to fly a four-day trip with somebody who hates their job.
 
Larry in TN said:
For a 23 year old kid just a few months out of college? That's the top 1% of US household, not even individual, incomes.

If you don't want to be an airline pilot then don't be one. We don't care. Nobody wants to fly a four-day trip with somebody who hates their job.
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She wants to be a airline pilot?
 
Larry in TN said:
Nobody wants to fly a four-day trip with somebody who hates their job.
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Hell, I don't like flying a turn with someone that's miserable. Fortunately that situation is very, very rare.
 
I hate my job but I’ve become “institutionalized” so I’m afraid to go anywhere else.
 
falconkidding said:
Geez, lot of airline pilots saying we enjoy our work and non airline pilots telling us why it sucks...
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I mean, lots of people from ALL types of professions hate their jobs, including pilots. There’s also people that love their jobs, including pilots. Not sure why POA thinks being an airline pilot is the only soul sucking job out there that everyone hates:dunno:. It works for some people and it doesn’t work for other people.
 
falconkidding said:
Geez, lot of airline pilots saying we enjoy our work and non airline pilots telling us why it sucks...
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Don’t think that is the case.

I think people are talking about the regionals having (self admitted) a hard time getting pilots, some say the pay and schedule probably is a factor, next comes the proverbial “autistic screeching” from airline pilots about it being the best job ever. Despite their own people saying they can’t fill seats.

I think the airlines are great, IF you can handle “proving yourself” for the low pay and always away from home for quite a few years, for me it just wasn’t going to work with the life I wanted to live.

Each part of aviation has its perks and draw backs, however airline pilots are VERY defensive of pointing out any draw backs to the 121 world.
“I wouldn’t want to fly with you”
“You probably could hack it”
And so on.

The other subsets of aviation are more
“Oh, well that doesn’t sound like a fit for you, have you thought about 135/91/AG/sales/“
 
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Man a 29 year old that's already made mainline captain and got out to make more money flying 135, or was that flying 331?
 
Jackk said:
Don’t think that is the case.

I think people are talking about the regionals having (self admitted) a hard time getting pilots, some say the pay and schedule probably is a factor, next comes the proverbial “autistic screeching” from airline pilots about it being the best job ever. Despite their own people saying they can’t fill seats.

I think the airlines are great, IF you can handle “proving yourself” for the low pay and always away from home for quite a few years, for me it just wasn’t going to work with the life I wanted to live.

Each part of aviation has its perks and draw backs, however airline pilots are VERY defensive of pointing out any draw backs to the 121 world.
“I wouldn’t want to fly with you”
“You probably could hack it”
And so on.

The other subsets of aviation are more
“Oh, well that doesn’t sound like a fit for you, have you thought about 135/91/AG/sales/“
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Interested now...what do you do for a living?
 
EdFred said:
Man a 29 year old that's already made mainline captain and got out to make more money flying 135, or was that flying 331?
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A good bit older than that, giving a random website my DOB did not feel like a wise move.
Fixed to eliminate confusion
 
Jackk said:
I’m a pilot.
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I assume you're an air carrier pilot? Really serious now. I know zip about the airlines, et al. Have flown with a few line pilots who moonlighted in the NG and they were all excellent. I'm retired so don't have a dog in the fight, except this is an absorbing discussion. You seem to have a lot of knowledge and experience to offer POA, so that's why the polite request for specifics.
 
Rando is the next level after taxi to parking. Only for the truly accomplished among us.
 
EdFred said:
Dude, I'm only in NYC three times a month, and I don't even use your toothbrush.
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Hahahaha! That's very thoughtful, Ed. :p
 
Piperonca said:
I assume you're an air carrier pilot? Really serious now. I know zip about the airlines, et al. Have flown with a few line pilots who moonlighted in the NG and they were all excellent. I'm retired so don't have a dog in the fight, except this is an absorbing discussion. You seem to have a lot of knowledge and experience to offer POA, so that's why the polite request for specifics.
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Yes, though I also did pretty well at a few 91 operations over the years.
 
Jackk said:
Yes, though I also did pretty well at a few 91 operations over the years.
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Not trying to be too personal, but what sector of aviating is your preference now and why? This gets down to it. Understanding that tradeoffs always exist, and can vary widely with the individual's ideal or motives for a career. Some thoughtful assessments based on your experience could genuinely help others.

Example, had I not gone into engineering, an airline job would have looked mighty good. However, I found a certain purpose in technical work I was able to fulfill and consider every day how lucky that was.

Edit: 'Picky pax' was funny!
 
Jackk said:
Don’t think that is the case.

I think people are talking about the regionals having (self admitted) a hard time getting pilots, some say the pay and schedule probably is a factor, next comes the proverbial “autistic screeching” from airline pilots about it being the best job ever. Despite their own people saying they can’t fill seats.

I think the airlines are great, IF you can handle “proving yourself” for the low pay and always away from home for quite a few years, for me it just wasn’t going to work with the life I wanted to live.

Each part of aviation has its perks and draw backs, however airline pilots are VERY defensive of pointing out any draw backs to the 121 world.
“I wouldn’t want to fly with you”
“You probably could hack it”
And so on.

The other subsets of aviation are more
“Oh, well that doesn’t sound like a fit for you, have you thought about 135/91/AG/sales/“
Click to expand...
I’m just not seeing that here @Jackk. I see lots of people talking negatively about airlines getting defensive about having to justify their criticism.

In regards to regionals and their pay structure that’s a straw man argument. No one is expecting to stay there for a career. The two regionals I worked for had perhaps 500 combined that were forever pilots.

In fact when I was getting sucked into the regionals for to long I punched out and worked AG/corporate for about nine years. It was great. However when the music started playing at the airlines again I came back and have made it to a major. Pretty much everyone on here that’s saying airline jobs are good have made it to a legacy people or box company. No one is talking about the regionals.
 
Morgan3820 said:
But…isn’t @jordane93 in your industry?
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Yep, which is why I'd be more inclined to listen to what he has to say than someone who is not. We have a bunch of lawyers and engineers on this board, and I absolutely place more weight on what they have to say about their industry than those of us that 'has a buddy that...'
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I’m just not seeing that here @Jackk. I see lots of people talking negatively about airlines getting defensive about having to justify their criticism.

In regards to regionals and their pay structure that’s a straw man argument. No one is expecting to stay there for a career. The two regionals I worked for had perhaps 500 combined that were forever pilots.

In fact when I was getting sucked into the regionals for to long I punched out and worked AG/corporate for about nine years. It was great. However when the music started playing at the airlines again I came back and have made it to a major. Pretty much everyone on here that’s saying airline jobs are good have made it to a legacy people or box company. No one is talking about the regionals.
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I agree with most of that,

However the 121s rig the game a little, they want 121 time to go majors for the most part, and the only way most get that 121 is to take a major pay and schedule hit to bum it out at the regionals.
 
Jackk said:
I agree with most of that,

However the 121s rig the game a little, they want 121 time to go majors for the most part, and the only way most get that 121 is to take a major pay and schedule hit to bum it out at the regionals.
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Well. I won’t say they don’t like prior 121 time because we know that’s obviously true but about 60% of my new hire class had no 121 experience. Of that group they were 70% military and the rest were corporate/135.

They do really like the direct entry from military where I’m working. Things now are very different than they have been in the past 25 years. There are ~700 pilots being hired every month between American, Delta, United and FedEx. Many of the things that we knew to be true about hiring have changed in the last 8 months.
 
kayoh190 said:
Yep, which is why I'd be more inclined to listen to what he has to say than someone who is not. We have a bunch of lawyers and engineers on this board, and I absolutely place more weight on what they have to say about their industry than those of us that 'has a buddy that...'
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Exactly. Even being in the regional game, things are moving and happening so fast, it's hard to see where this business (the regional one) will be in 12 months from now. I'm sure at some point my shop will have to respond, but it'll have to come from the boys down in Dixie. And they are never, ever, ever proactive about things, totally reactive.

Who knows, I'll just put my time in until they call me up to "the show". Until then, it's fun flying with these young guys who haven't really seen the ugly side of the business.
 
Every aviation job has pros cons. You can be a “Tesla fanboy” and ignore the cons, but they still exist. Not saying any of the 121 guys on here do that but they’re out there.

Look at military aviation. They’re hurting for pilots as much as anyone right now. Who wouldn’t want to be a “Top Gun” and fly F-18s? Well apparently a lot of people because they’re offering big bonuses in all the services to keep people in. On the outside looking in, I’m sure a lot of us don’t understand why someone wouldn’t want to fly a fighter til retirement but look how few make it til retirement. It ain’t all that it’s cut out to be like in the movies. If it were, we’d have a crapload of aviation admirals fighting to make rank right now.

I read a Flying Mag article a few years back that interviewed a couple of regional guys. They ragged on the job. Low pay, boring, automation, long hours, etc. At the end of the article they both stated there’s nothing they’d rather be doing for a job. And that’s the realities with every job that people enjoy doing. As long as the drawbacks don’t outweigh the benefits, you keep doing it. Once it becomes a drag, you look for greener pastures.
 
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