How to R&R cylinder on Lycoming

It must be amazing to be around you. Everyone you associate with is in perfect health and has never made a mistake. Must be heaven, because apparently they can't even get a health issue after you start associating with them. I guess they all live forever too.
Apparent cognitive issues present long before someone loses the ability to return home. If you want someone like that working on the engine in planes you fly, go with it. I obviously value my life more than you value yours.

And no, everyone around me is not in perfect health and never makes a mistake, but I do strive to reduce unneeded risk and day to day BS.
 
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Apparent cognitive issues present long before someone loses the ability to return home.
I just want to clarify once again that my missing mechanic exhibited no signs of cognitive issues. Any assumption he has based on the news statement linked above is speculation.

I have another friend who is left in an unfamiliar location would have trouble returning home without assistance. He has no dementia. He simply never learned to read or write. If you can't read road signs and don't have a magenta line to follow, who ya gonna call?
 
My late friend who owned a restaurant and got me from his supplier 2-3 different sizes sheet pans many years ago brand new and shiny. We used them at the races at first. They are not the same thing as a drip pan that you can get at a auto parts store. Much sturdier.

I also bought some stainless oil drain pans at the same time. Steam table containers? Not sure what they are called? Good quality that never wears out.
Hotel pans. They come in different depths (2.5" below; also 4") and full (21" x 13", below), 1/2 (10.5" x 13"), or 1/4 size. Made in stainless or as semi-disposable in aluminum. Using them as catch pans, I'd be happy enough with the cheap dollar store kind.
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Muffin pans are handy for keeping nuts and bolts sorted and separate. You can find them in various capacities, from six to 24 muffins, at the thrift shops, real cheap. Some stuff in the shops is old and stained from being used for 40 years by someone, but so what? They'll only get dirty and oily anyway.

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Now, they do have a habit of flinging your stuff all over the place if you're inside the airplane, on your knees, and you happen to kick it or kneel on the edge of it. I had plans to make simple wooden frames for each pan so that pressure on the edge wouldn't flip it. Never got around to it.
 
Hotel pans. They come in different depths (2.5" below; also 4") and full (21" x 13", below), 1/2 (10.5" x 13"), or 1/4 size. Made in stainless or as semi-disposable in aluminum. Using them as catch pans, I'd be happy enough with the cheap dollar store kind.
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When I bought those sheet pans I was only "keeping up with the jones"
As I had NHRA top alcohol dragster team and many other teams used the same stuff in the mid 1990s.
So as I got more established in the sport I gained some sponsors and you want to impress them and your fans with nice equipment.
So that is when we got em to keep the pit's clean and be more professional. I had 6 guys helping me at the races. We over hauled the engine after ever run. So lot's of parts cleaning and lot's of trays were used.
30 years later I still use them, at home, at work and at the hangar. One of the best investments I ever made in tools.
3 sets of BAE heads freshened ready for the racing season.
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Remember Winston drag racing?
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Parts cleaner sitting on top the drum, we used gasoline in a tank sprayer to clean parts. And there are my aluminum top tables that stand up to oil and rain.
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90 minute overhauls and a new clutch every run.
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Have you considered doing a ring flush, before removing the cylinder? I would think removing would be a last resort.
 
I don’t know if it was stated how 20/80 was determined.

Running and preferably flying can change the reading.

No comments on metal , fouled plugs , mag drop , static rpm?

Maybe just fly somewhere where an experienced Tech can do?
 
Fair questions.
I have no experience with ring flushing. Think it'll help?

We prepositioned the plane in a maintenance hangar the night before. It was cold during the initial compression test. After low reading on 1 @ 50/80 & 2 @ 20/80 I warmed up the motor to CHT 300.

Warm compression was 3&4 @ 78/80, 1 @ 54/80 and 2 @ 20/80.

1 I didn't look closely for where it was losing compression. 2 was clearly leaking past rings.

We borescoped. 1, 3 & 4 looked good. 2 looked like it has valve trouble. Attached are scope pics. I don't have wall pics but didn't see longitudinal scratches.
Due to the low compression and valve I figured #2 has to come off. I'm on the fence about #1.
Image_2024-06-24 12_37_29_715.jpg #2
Image_2024-06-24 12_36_08_567.jpg#2
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Image_2024-06-24 12_39_42_385.jpg#1
 

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I'd agree with you that 2 has to come off.
Is that a burnt valve?
250 hours is not adding up...
Are those plugs approved for use in your engine?
 
I'd agree with you that 2 has to come off.
Is that a burnt valve?
250 hours is not adding up...
Are those plugs approved for use in your engine?
The plugs are NGK BR8ES. They are widely used in experimental aircraft. I don't believe Titan approved or disapproved of any particular plugs in their engine. Titan manufactured my cylinders tapped for 14mm auto plugs; no spark plug adapters are used with these plugs in these jugs... Clearly 18 mm aviation plugs were never in the cards.

Yes, it does appear to be a burnt valve to my relatively uneducated eye. Strange though as the leak is definitely past the rings.
 
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Thanks for the education, 14mm 18mm. Didn't know that.

I would definitely remove 1-2. 3-4 are good it seems? imo
 
When I bought those sheet pans I was only "keeping up with the jones"
As I had NHRA top alcohol dragster team and many other teams used the same stuff in the mid 1990s.
So as I got more established in the sport I gained some sponsors and you want to impress them and your fans with nice equipment.
So that is when we got em to keep the pit's clean and be more professional. I had 6 guys helping me at the races. We over hauled the engine after ever run. So lot's of parts cleaning and lot's of trays were used.
30 years later I still use them, at home, at work and at the hangar. One of the best investments I ever made in tools.
0bbbc08d.jpg

Remember Winston drag racing?
drag.jpg

MVC-077S-1.jpg

MVC-072S-1.jpg

Parts cleaner sitting on top the drum, we used gasoline in a tank sprayer to clean parts. And there are my aluminum top tables that stand up to oil and rain.
156598725qLtFUk_ph.jpg

90 min overhauls and a new clutch every run.
156598545PgrWjy_ph.jpg
With your background, you likely know Gene Fulton? Gene is a pilot as well as an engine builder. I asked him how much hp his motors make. He said they started at 2,000 hp, before the nitrous...
 
With your background, you likely know Gene Fulton? Gene is a pilot as well as an engine builder. I asked him how much hp his motors make. He said they started at 2,000 hp, before the nitrous...
I dont know him but I have definlty know/heard of him.If I remembered right he built mountain motor pro stock engines for IHRA.
 
Due to the low compression and valve I figured #2 has to come off. I'm on the fence about #1.
I’m absolutely no genius on this stuff but is lapping #2 (and possibly #1) and/or maybe reaming them a consideration? Can be done in place without the risks/expense of pulling off a cylinder

Add: it cost me about $300 to have a valve lapped when they found similar compression in one of my cylinders.
 
I’m absolutely no genius on this stuff but is lapping #2 (and possibly #1) and/or maybe reaming them a consideration? Can be done in place without the risks/expense of pulling off a cylinder

Add: it cost me about $300 to have a valve lapped when they found similar compression in one of my cylinders.
I'm a novice at this stuff also. Perhaps that's an option for #1; would have to investigate further to determine where it's leaking. #2 appears to have a burnt valve but it's leaking past rings so I don't see how valve work would help with the compression.
 
RTFM. Both engine companies spent a lot of money writing very good manuals.
 
Is there any possibility to get new/rebuilt replacement cylinders and swap out 1-2? That way your plane is not apart as long in the common hangar.
 
I’m absolutely no genius on this stuff but is lapping #2 (and possibly #1) and/or maybe reaming them a consideration? Can be done in place without the risks/expense of pulling off a cylinder
In the second picture you can see notching at the edge of the valve. Way beyond lapping to save it.
 
Is there any possibility to get new/rebuilt replacement cylinders and swap out 1-2? That way your plane is not apart as long in the common hangar.
I asked the old guy at Gibson's. He sounded confused thinking I was asking about a Continental cylinder. Continental bought Titan who made Lycoming clones. So Continental now owns Lycoming clones. The guy at Gibson's said he didn't have any. Likely there would be something compatible available somewhere. It wouldn't have 14 mm plugs though as they stopped making those cylinders.
 
Researched it further and appears Lycoming o-320 cylinders are compatible with the Titan x-340. Given the short life since overhaul of the Titan cylinders (200 ish hours and 2 years) I decided to order a couple new Lycoming cylinders. Have a couple new 05K21423-A Lycoming cylinder assemblies on the way.
 
Researched it further and appears Lycoming o-320 cylinders are compatible with the Titan x-340. Given the short life since overhaul of the Titan cylinders (200 ish hours and 2 years) I decided to order a couple new Lycoming cylinders. Have a couple new 05K21423-A Lycoming cylinder assemblies on the way.
Just curious: any estimate re how long to get them? Cost?
 
Just curious: any estimate re how long to get them? Cost?
Air Power inc in TX lists that particular cylinder as in stock; should ship Monday. They're right at 2k / cylinder. The superior millennium version was widely available (more so than Lycoming cylinders) at around 1.6k each.
 
Researched it further and appears Lycoming o-320 cylinders are compatible with the Titan x-340. Given the short life since overhaul of the Titan cylinders (200 ish hours and 2 years) I decided to order a couple new Lycoming cylinders. Have a couple new 05K21423-A Lycoming cylinder assemblies on the way.
Standard conti. Even when literally cloning a lyco jug, they still end up with conti jug life.
 
What is your assessment as to the causes? I wouldn’t necessarily say it was a brand/manufacturer issue, but you have the most knowledge of your equipment and operation.

Things I’m thinking - fuel flow, induction leaks, operating method, assembly or installation issues (rotator, valve stem height, ring end gaps), etc.

Just make sure you rule some of that stuff out, if for nothing else but wallet and down time sake.
 
What is your assessment as to the causes? I wouldn’t necessarily say it was a brand/manufacturer issue, but you have the most knowledge of your equipment and operation.

Things I’m thinking - fuel flow, induction leaks, operating method, assembly or installation issues (rotator, valve stem height, ring end gaps), etc.

Just make sure you rule some of that stuff out, if for nothing else but wallet and down time sake.
Yeah, good question. I know it runs hotter than optimal. I don't operate it such that CHT's go over 400 in climb but it will run over 350 in cruise. Oil temps have been running 220 in cruise recently. This is likely due to high ambient temps plus huge blow by from cylinder #2. While my Titan cylinders aren't subject to the AD's, I read multiple reports on VAF of similar trouble with the same cylinders. Should know more when we get that cylinder off. I'm betting we've got broken rings.
 
News story from South Carolina:

Word I hear is Victors car, a Toyota 4 runner, has been recovered. The escaped convict was seen on camera wearing a hat and sunglasses identified by Victors daughter as Victors hat and sunglasses. Still no news on Victor. This has really hit our airport hard. Victor is well liked here.

I just returned from the airport. Have been there all day removing cylinders 1 & 2. Victor always left his hangar unlocked and told me to go in and borrow whatever tools I needed, including expendable supplies such as nitrogen for strut top off. Despite what he's told me in the past, I couldn't bring myself to go in his hangar and borrow tools for the cylinder removal. I bought the required tools and used my own this time.
 
Removed cylinder 1 & 2. #2 was 20/80 blowing hard out the oil fill tube. The ring gaps were not lined up. The rings were not broken. I do not see a smoking gun. Of course, my eye isn't an educated one in these matters.
Not quite sure whats going on in the 3rd pic towards the base of the cylinder.
 

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if it's a conti made lyco-clone jug, chuck it for an overhauled lyco for the offending one. Dispatch rate is worth something, especially for you as a long time plane commuter. You've already saved the bulk of the labor with the R/R, but it's sunk now that you tore into the engine. Forget about the diagnosis in this instance.

Also, my condolences regarding your mechanic, what a strange and awful turn of events. This thread def turned in a weird direction. anyways, good luck with putting the engine back together.
 
How hard was it to get the piston pin out?
 
How hard was it to get the piston pin out?
The piston pins in both 1 & 2 were about the same. Perhaps slightly more pressure was required to start movement on #1. This is the first time I have removed a piston pin so I don't have a point of reference. I was able to move the pins laterally with about 10 lbs of pressure I would estimate. They had an off white milky substance on the pins, perhaps white lithium grease? I'm going to read on the recommended lubricant now.
 
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