help with FDC NOTAM?

olasek

olasek

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
1,704
Location
Oakland, CA
Display Name
Display name:
olasek
Could someone help with the FDC NOTAM for the SQL airport. For example one of the NOTAMs state:

!FDC 7/4816 SQL IAP SAN CARLOS, San Carlos, CA. RNAV (GPS) Z RWY 30, AMDT 1B... LNAV MDA 960/HAT 955 ALL CATS, VISIBILITY CAT A 1 1/4 SM, CAT B 1 1/2 SM, CHANGE MISSED APPROACH CLIMB GRADIENT NOTE TO READ: MISSED APPROACH REQUIRES MINIMUM CLIMB OF 330 FEET PER NM TO 4300.. 1705121520-1712221520EST

...
So my question is this - does it modify LNAV MDA for the approach at this airport? I am looking at the current approach plate and LNAV MDA for RNAV (GPS) Z Rwy 30 is 900. Does it raise MDA from 900 to 960? (airport is practically at sea level).
 
Yes. MDA is now 960.

Probably a tree or something grew in the approach path, or the safety corridor. Aterpster should be able to clarify the reasoning.
 
Last edited:
OK, thanks. So the next question is - will it be reflected on the next published IAP for the airport which is coming in a few days? And if not why does this info is kept out of the actual IAP chart?
 
960 actually.

Depends on the reason. I agree that it's probably an obstruction given the 60' change. If it's temporary, the NOTAM will just go away. If it needs to be a permanent change, the plate will be revised.
 
Looks temporary since it has start and stop dates/times.
 
The format is Year-Month-day-time. So this one started at 3:20 PM EST on May 12th, 2017 and is currently scheduled to end on Dec 22, 2017 at 3:20 PM.
 
tsts4 said:
The format is Year-Month-day-time. So this one started at 3:20 PM EST on May 12th, 2017 and is currently scheduled to end on Dec 22, 2017 at 3:20 PM.
Click to expand...

Dumb question. Would that happen to be the date of the next chart publication? As in, it's now on the charts so we don't have to publish this notam anymore?
 
Amendment 1B is an abbreviated Part 97 amendment. The NOTAM will disappear once the chart makers chart the change. Anytime you see "amendment" in one of these FDC NOTAMS, it is not temporary and is going to the next applicable charting cycle.
 
aterpster said:
Amendment 1B is an abbreviated Part 97 amendment. The NOTAM will disappear once the chart makers chart the change. Anytime you see "amendment" in one of these FDC NOTAMS, it is not temporary and is going to the next applicable charting cycle.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, the IAP in question is already labeled amendment 1B on the plate itself. So how do the dates in the NOTAM equate this NOTAM to a permanent condition? As this change has not been incorporated yet, does the 1B amendment notation apply to this condition or just the current version of the plate that had been previously amended on 27 Apr 17? Also since this NOTAM has been out for 4 months how long does it normally take for a change to make its way into the affected document?
 
Interesting guess, I will be there soon and will take a look.
 
olasek said:
Interesting guess, I will be there soon and will take a look.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing that guess is wrong. Seeing as how it's not temporary because of the amendment thing a crane doesn't fit. And the missed climb gradient going up to 4300 doesn't fit with a crane. My new guess is someone was looking at it and realized maybe they made a boo-boo and are correcting it.
 
That NOTAM is a temporary NOTAM. All FDC NOTAMS, temporary or permanent, list the amendment of the procedure they apply to, to make sure you're looking at the right one.

A permanent change to a procedure will often be processed via FDC NOTAM as well, but the wording is a little different. This one below is a permanent change:

!FDC 7/3431 1F0 IAP ARDMORE DOWNTOWN EXECUTIVE, ARDMORE, OK. RNAV (GPS) RWY 17, ORIG-B... CHART NOTE: RWY 17 HELICOPTER VISIBILITY REDUCTION BELOW 1 SM NOT AUTHORIZED. CHART PROFILE NOTE: VISUAL SEGMENT - OBSTACLES. DELETE DESCENT ANGLE 3.00 / TCH 40. DELETE PROFILE NOTE: VGSI AND DESCENT ANGLE NOT COINCIDENT (VGSI ANGLE 4.00/TCH 62). DELETE NOTE: PROCEDURE NA AT NIGHT. DELETE NOTE: VISIBILITY REDUCTION BY HELICOPTERS NA. THIS IS RNAV (GPS) RWY 17, ORIG-C. 1702101946-PERM

Note how in the first line it says it applies to amendment Orig-B, tells the changes, then at the end states that this NOTAM doesn't just temporarily amend Orig-B, but instead creates Orig-C. This amendment (should) show up soon in the charted version of the procedure.

Below is an example of a temporary NOTAM, notice it's just because a VOR is out of service:

!FDC 7/2326 HSD IAP SUNDANCE, Oklahoma City, OK. VOR RWY 17, AMDT 1E... DME REQUIRED EXCEPT FOR AIRCRAFT EQUIPPED WITH SUITABLE RNAV SYSTEM WITH GPS, IFI VOR OUT OF SERVICE. 1709131230-1709201045EST

Note that it also lists the amendment number of the current procedure, but does not create a new amendment - which makes sense, presumably the VOR will be back in service soon.
 
RussR said:
That NOTAM is a temporary NOTAM. All FDC NOTAMS, temporary or permanent, list the amendment of the procedure they apply to, to make sure you're looking at the right one.

A permanent change to a procedure will often be processed via FDC NOTAM as well, but the wording is a little different. This one below is a permanent change:

!FDC 7/3431 1F0 IAP ARDMORE DOWNTOWN EXECUTIVE, ARDMORE, OK. RNAV (GPS) RWY 17, ORIG-B... CHART NOTE: RWY 17 HELICOPTER VISIBILITY REDUCTION BELOW 1 SM NOT AUTHORIZED. CHART PROFILE NOTE: VISUAL SEGMENT - OBSTACLES. DELETE DESCENT ANGLE 3.00 / TCH 40. DELETE PROFILE NOTE: VGSI AND DESCENT ANGLE NOT COINCIDENT (VGSI ANGLE 4.00/TCH 62). DELETE NOTE: PROCEDURE NA AT NIGHT. DELETE NOTE: VISIBILITY REDUCTION BY HELICOPTERS NA. THIS IS RNAV (GPS) RWY 17, ORIG-C. 1702101946-PERM

Note how in the first line it says it applies to amendment Orig-B, tells the changes, then at the end states that this NOTAM doesn't just temporarily amend Orig-B, but instead creates Orig-C. This amendment (should) show up soon in the charted version of the procedure.

Below is an example of a temporary NOTAM, notice it's just because a VOR is out of service:

!FDC 7/2326 HSD IAP SUNDANCE, Oklahoma City, OK. VOR RWY 17, AMDT 1E... DME REQUIRED EXCEPT FOR AIRCRAFT EQUIPPED WITH SUITABLE RNAV SYSTEM WITH GPS, IFI VOR OUT OF SERVICE. 1709131230-1709201045EST

Note that it also lists the amendment number of the current procedure, but does not create a new amendment - which makes sense, presumably the VOR will be back in service soon.
Click to expand...
Ok. If it doesn't say PERM then it's temporary. Any Ideas what could account for raising an MDA 60 feet and then, after starting the Missed Approach from 60 feet higher, require increasing the climb gradient from 302 feet per NM to 330 to 4300?
 
R
aterpster said:
Amendment 1B is an abbreviated Part 97 amendment. The NOTAM will disappear once the chart makers chart the change. Anytime you see "amendment" in one of these FDC NOTAMS, it is not temporary and is going to the next applicable charting cycle.
Click to expand...
Russ is correct. I misread the NOTAM.
 
luvflyin said:
Ok. If it doesn't say PERM then it's temporary.
Click to expand...

More accurately, if it doesn't say "THIS IS {procedure} {new amendment number}" at the end, it's temporary. At least that's the theory. Many temporary NOTAMS eventually become permanent.
 
luvflyin said:
Is there a place to go to find out what that NOTAM is about be it permanent or temporary? Why the numbers were increased.
Click to expand...
The FAA IFP Gateway will show the latest full amendment and latest abbreviated amendment (if there is one). It is under the NDBR tab.
 
aterpster said:
The FAA IFP Gateway will show the latest full amendment and latest abbreviated amendment (if there is one). It is under the NDBR tab.
Click to expand...
Its there as AMDT 1B dated 05/08/2017, MDA 900, climb gradient 302 until 5400. The NOTAM with the changes to MDA 960 and gradient 330 to 4300 starts 05/12/2017. Looks like there was a boo-boo in the Approach and someone discovered it four days later. That's my final Guess. Lol
 
aterpster said:
Amendment 1B is an abbreviated Part 97 amendment. The NOTAM will disappear once the chart makers chart the change. Anytime you see "amendment" in one of these FDC NOTAMS, it is not temporary and is going to the next applicable charting cycle.
Click to expand...
Are you sure this is correct? Denton (DTO) has an FDC NOTAM out for its RNAV Runway 36 approach. The current approach chart version is AMDT 2B. The MDA/DA, visibility, and VDP have been modified to account for construction taking place on both sides of the airport.

!FDC 7/1347 DTO IAP DENTON ENTERPRISE, Denton, TX. RNAV (GPS) RWY 36, AMDT 2B... LNAV/VNAV DA 956/HAT 327 ALL CATS. VIS 1 1/8 ALL CATS. LNAV MDA 1060/HAT 431 ALL CATS. VIS CATS C/D 1 1/4. VDP 1.20 NM TO RW36. WORKOVER RIG, 745 MSL, 4665 FEET SW OF RWY 36 (2015-ASW-7365-OE). 1709121300-1712151122EST

A similar thing is going on with the ILS Runway 18, whose current version is AMDT 9B.

!FDC 7/2862 DTO IAP DENTON ENTERPRISE, Denton, TX. ILS OR LOC RWY 18, AMDT 9B... RNAV (GPS) RWY 18, ORIG-B... RNAV (GPS) RWY 36, AMDT 2B... CIRCLING CAT C MDA 1260/HAA 618. CAT C VIS 1 3/4. CRANE, 902 MSL, 1.93 NM NE OF KDTO, 2016-ASW-2910-OE. 1706151339-1801251339EST
 
Harold Rutila said:
Are you sure this is correct? Denton (DTO) has an FDC NOTAM out for its RNAV Runway 36 approach. The current approach chart version is AMDT 2B. The MDA/DA, visibility, and VDP have been modified to account for construction taking place on both sides of the airport.

!FDC 7/1347 DTO IAP DENTON ENTERPRISE, Denton, TX. RNAV (GPS) RWY 36, AMDT 2B... LNAV/VNAV DA 956/HAT 327 ALL CATS. VIS 1 1/8 ALL CATS. LNAV MDA 1060/HAT 431 ALL CATS. VIS CATS C/D 1 1/4. VDP 1.20 NM TO RW36. WORKOVER RIG, 745 MSL, 4665 FEET SW OF RWY 36 (2015-ASW-7365-OE). 1709121300-1712151122EST

A similar thing is going on with the ILS Runway 18, whose current version is AMDT 9B.

!FDC 7/2862 DTO IAP DENTON ENTERPRISE, Denton, TX. ILS OR LOC RWY 18, AMDT 9B... RNAV (GPS) RWY 18, ORIG-B... RNAV (GPS) RWY 36, AMDT 2B... CIRCLING CAT C MDA 1260/HAA 618. CAT C VIS 1 3/4. CRANE, 902 MSL, 1.93 NM NE OF KDTO, 2016-ASW-2910-OE. 1706151339-1801251339EST
Click to expand...
See post #17 and #19
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top