Handshake when exiting delta

[SixPapaCharlie]

Seems every time I have gone through Class D, once I am 4-5 miles away, I get "6PC, No traffic observed, frequency change approved"

Last night I departed Class D (Not on FF by the way)

4,5,6,7,8 miles and silence.

Obviously at that point they were done with me so I switched.
Should I let them know I am changing or is it fine once I am out of their airspace to do my own thing.

I assume the courteous thing would be to let them know but is there supposed to be a handshake on exit or is it more informal?

9.5 out of 10 times, they chime in but twice in the last week, it has been this scenario.

What is expected? what do you do?

 

[JOhnH]

Seems every time I have gone through Class D, once I am 4-5 miles away, I get "6PC, No traffic observed, frequency change approved"

Last night I departed Class D (Not on FF by the way)

4,5,6,7,8 miles and silence.

Obviously at that point they were done with me so I switched.
Should I let them know I am changing or is it fine once I am out of their airspace to do my own thing.

I assume the courteous thing would be to let them know but is there supposed to be a handshake on exit or is it more informal?

9.5 out of 10 times, they chime in but twice in the last week, it has been this scenario.

What is expected? what do you do?

My understanding is that once you are out of their airspace, you no longer need their permission. But I usually ask as I am crossing out anyway.

 

[bnt83]

My DPE would turn the transponder to 1200, then change com frequencies. He also would not read back "squawk VFR frequency changed approved" if they did say something.

He was an old dog and that was a long time ago tho but it makes perfect sense.

 

[poadeleted20]

Covered in the AIM Section 4-3-2a:

Unless there is a good reason to leave the tower frequency before exiting the Class B, Class C, and Class D surface areas, it is a good operating practice to remain on the tower frequency for the purpose of receiving traffic information. In the interest of reducing tower frequency congestion, pilots are reminded that it is not necessary to request permission to leave the tower frequency once outside of Class B, Class C, and Class D surface areas.

If they want otherwise (and many times they do), they'll tell you specifically, e.g., "Tiger 22RL, report six miles north". So, if they don't ask, I don't tell.

 

[Timmer]

My local airport will get testy if you ask for approval to switch when your beyond their airspace. You've already left, why would you need to ask them? MYF can get pretty hectic at times and the last they need is extra talk.

If you want an early switch, then ask for it. Otherwise it's like asking tower if you can switch to ground when you're at parking.

 

[timwinters]

I oft fly over to KCGI for practice and when I exit their airspace I never get a call...likely because they have no radar and thus don't really know where I'm at or when I'm exiting their airspace.

So, typically I'll call them after I'm about a mile or two outside of their ring. "Cape Tower, N5057D, two miles NW of your airspace, heading 300, 2500' "

Response is typically "57D, frequency change approved, have a good flight."

EDIT: Lots of responses already, and because of what some said, I guess I'd add. How does a non-radar equipped class delta know you've left their airspace if you don't tell them? I can see not worrying about making a call if they have radar, but in the case of CGI they don't and I feel compelled to let them know that they no longer have to keep me in mind as they direct others.

 

[jsstevens]

I fly out of a Delta airport. Probably 8/10 times I get a "Frequency change approved." (I tell people this is their way of saying I'm no longer their problem.)

The other times I just switch when I get somewhere I need a new frequency (getting close to another airport, etc.). I may leave it on the class D frequency for 20 miles or more just because there is nothing more relevant to me.

This is squawking 1200 only. If I've got a code (almost never) I stay with them until handed off or told off. (That didn't quite come out right...)

John

 

[flyingron]

If you're getting radar services, I'd not just squawk 1200 and drop off the frequency. I've had issues with that in the past. But as C'Ron says, if you're only complying with the communications requirement of the class C and D airspace, then unless instructed otherwise, you're free to go once you're outside the airspace. Of course, in the DC Area, you don't want to just go spontaneously squawking 1200 for other reasons.

 

[Velocity173]

If it's a D, isn't busy and I'm clear, I just give them a "helicopter 7MT clear, have a good day." If it's busy, I just switch on my own. If it's a C and I'm getting FF from tower, then I stay with them until they terminate me.

 

[roncachamp]

EDIT: Lots of responses already, and because of what some said, I guess I'd add. How does a non-radar equipped class delta know you've left their airspace if you don't tell them? I can see not worrying about making a call if they have radar, but in the case of CGI they don't and I feel compelled to let them know that they no longer have to keep me in mind as they direct others.

As they have no responsibility for separation they have no real need to keep you in mind.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

If you're getting radar services, I'd not just squawk 1200 and drop off the frequency. I've had issues with that in the past. But as C'Ron says, if you're only complying with the communications requirement of the class C and D airspace, then unless instructed otherwise, you're free to go once you're outside the airspace. Of course, in the DC Area, you don't want to just go spontaneously squawking 1200 for other reasons.

I was squawking 1200 the entire time VFR flight no FF

Edit: I know when on FF, I let them know I have the field in site and we terminate with freq. change & squawk 1200. Usually they ask before I have to tell them.

 

[Matthew]

That happens occasionally to me when leaving the Ds that I use. No big deal, once I'm out of their airspace I typically stay on freq for a while to monitor inbound traffic anyway. We do have several airports whose airspace overlaps and depending on your direction of departure it does get to a point where you really want to change freq soon after takeoff, normally the towers will anticipate that and give you a "freq change approved" pretty much right after takeoff before you even get a chance to ask.

 

[MAKG1]

In crowded airspace, you sometimes have to ask for frequency changes while still inside D.

Leaving KSQL to the north, for instance. I want to be talking to San Francisco Tower as soon as I'm clear of the pattern.

If I've just left a D, I'll report (not request) changing -- or not changing -- frequency, as they often give traffic calls if they know I'm listening. With mountain passes and local radar coverage nearby, that's useful.

 

[poadeleted20]

pilots are reminded that it is not necessary to request permission to leave the tower frequency once outside of Class B, Class C, and Class D surface areas.

Note that this does not include the DC SFRA. On the way out of the DC SFRA, don't squawk VFR and leave the frequency until you hear them tell you to do that. Too many people have thought they were clear when they weren't showing clear on the ground radar displays, and those displays are what you will be judged by. If you think you're clear of the SFRA but they haven't said anything, ask them.

 

[ScottK]

I fly out of a Class D. We have one controller that will request you report leaving the airspace, otherwise, it doesn't usually come up. Occasionally, if there is other traffic in the area, I'll report clear as more of a position report. Our tower doesn't have radar.

 

[timwinters]

As they have no responsibility for separation they have no real need to keep you in mind.

But, what's the downside? It's a fairly sleepy airport with hardly ever more than one other plane on frequency. If the controller isn't busy, why leave him wondering where I'm at or if I'm still in his airspace when a quick courtesy call let's him know I'm gone and what my position is?

Many times I'll say "over Dutchtown" or "over Advance" or "over Podunk" in my departure call. Thus, if an inbound plane makes a call shortly thereafter, the controller will know whether or not I'm anywhere close.

It may not be required but IMO worthwhile enough to continue to do it.

To each his own, I suppose.

 

[paflyer]

But, what's the downside? It's a fairly sleepy airport with hardly ever more than one other plane on frequency. If the controller isn't busy, why leave him wondering where I'm at or if I'm still in his airspace when a quick courtesy call let's him know I'm gone and what my position is?

Many times I'll say "over Dutchtown" or "over Advance" or "over Podunk" in my departure call. Thus, if an inbound plane makes a call shortly thereafter, the controller will know whether or not I'm anywhere close.

It may not be required but IMO worthwhile enough to continue to do it.

To each his own, I suppose.

More communication is better than not enough. Apparently each AP (and probably controller) has different customs. If it's not going to clog the frequency, a snappy "NXYZ departing Delta (rough direction), see ya" should close the loop.

 

[Larry in TN]

If the controller isn't busy, why leave him wondering where I'm at

Because he isn't wondering about you.

The answer was in post #4. AIM Section 4-3-2a:

Unless there is a good reason to leave the tower frequency before exiting the Class B, Class C, and Class D surface areas, it is a good operating practice to remain on the tower frequency for the purpose of receiving traffic information. In the interest of reducing tower frequency congestion, pilots are reminded that it is not necessary to request permission to leave the tower frequency once outside of Class B, Class C, and Class D surface areas.

 

[MyassisDragon]

Many times I'll say "over Dutchtown" or "over Advance" or "over Podunk" in my departure call. Thus, if an inbound plane makes a call shortly thereafter, the controller will know whether or not I'm anywhere close.

It may not be required but IMO worthwhile enough to continue to do it.

To each his own, I suppose.

I departed VFR 1200 from Class D (Pontiac MI under DTW bravo) last night headed west and stayed on frequency until out side of airspace and picked up flight following from next from next radar facility.

In hindsight it would have been courteous to tell tower before going off frequency (I did not) "Pontiac tower N999x we have cleared your airspace over Podunk at 4500 ft, changing frequency, have a good night" their radio was pretty quiet and they may have appreciated the interaction.

I will do this next time.

 

[timwinters]

Because he isn't wondering about you.

The answer was in post #4. AIM Section 4-3-2a:

Actually, yes he is since he doesn't have radar.

If I haven't departed his airspace yet or forget to "sign off", and an inbound plane makes a call, he'll call me and ask for my location (if my departure route placed me anywhere close to the incoming plane).

I agree with that section of the AIM for class B, C and D (with radar) because in all cases they know where you're at, you don't need to tell them.

But class D without radar is a different animal.

Again, to each his own, but I'll continue to do so until the local controller tells me not to. And, he's never done so to date.

 

[Velocity173]

Techniques are fine, just don't be that guy who asks tower twice to leave the freq when they're already clear. You don't need permission. Just do it.

 

[cowman]

I fly out of a class D with no radar service. They will often(but not always) ask you to contact the tower once clear of D airspace. The response after doing so is generally
"frequency change approved, have a nice flight".

Since I'm generally only leaving the airspace to go do air work in the practice area at this point I just leave the radio on frequency and listen for anyone calling the tower while inbound that might be near me.

 

[MAKG1]

I fly out of a class D with no radar service. They will often(but not always) ask you to contact the tower once clear of D airspace. The response after doing so is generally
"frequency change approved, have a nice flight".

Since I'm generally only leaving the airspace to go do air work in the practice area at this point I just leave the radio on frequency and listen for anyone calling the tower while inbound that might be near me.

If you're staying on frequency, you should tell Tower so.

Otherwise, they might try to contact you on 121.5 if they need to, or just not tell you stuff they could otherwise (like converging traffic).

 

[Timmer]

You recommend calling up tower and tell them I'm listening on their freq even though I'm not in their airspace?

The other day, I was a mile or two outside of D, departing, and tower didn't give me approval to change nor did I, since I'm usually not in a hurry to leave freq unless I need to for upcoming airspace. Tower called and asked if I was still there to which I responded and they called out some traffic for me. Nice group

Honestly, this is a neat discussion. One thing I'm learning in aviation is there are a lot of gray areas and a ton of "dependings" -- the above discussion is an example. Where I fly can be very busy at times and any extraneous calls is quite unwelcome, but a quieter field, or even just different tower personality, dictates a lot.

 

[poadeleted20]

If you're staying on frequency, you should tell Tower so.

Otherwise, they might try to contact you on 121.5 if they need to, or just not tell you stuff they could otherwise (like converging traffic).

Tower is not going to tell you about converging traffic after you've left their airspace, especially not on 121.5. They might not even tell you about that while still within their airspace.

Just do what the AIM says, please. This is no different than that damn stupid "anybody out there please talk to me" call which the AIM specifically says not to make, but people still to it anyway, clogging up the scarce bandwidth with an unnecessary and pointless call. "Aw, leave it out, man!"

 

[roncachamp]

But, what's the downside? It's a fairly sleepy airport with hardly ever more than one other plane on frequency. If the controller isn't busy, why leave him wondering where I'm at or if I'm still in his airspace when a quick courtesy call let's him know I'm gone and what my position is?

You assume he's wondering where you're at, he's probably not.

 

[bobmrg]

Actually, yes he is since he doesn't have radar.

If I haven't departed his airspace yet or forget to "sign off", and an inbound plane makes a call, he'll call me and ask for my location (if my departure route placed me anywhere close to the incoming plane).

I agree with that section of the AIM for class B, C and D (with radar) because in all cases they know where you're at, you don't need to tell them.

But class D without radar is a different animal.

Again, to each his own, but I'll continue to do so until the local controller tells me not to. And, he's never done so to date.

It is easier, faster, and uses less bandwidth to say "Frequency change approved" than it does to educate pilots on proper procedure.

Bob Gardner

 

[jpower]

I had an interesting experience with this once... I was flying in to the NYC area from near Hartford, and did a touch and go at White Planes to qualify for XC time. After departing, we were most definitely clear of the airspace by a long shot and hadn't heard anything, so we switched over to the Hudson frequency because we were going to fly the exclusion. We flew our merry way southbound, and turning around the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, we started a climb and contacted Newark to see if we could do the East River/Central Park transition, which they told us they'd check on with LGA. While they were checking, he came up and said "hey, did you do a touch and go at White Plains earlier?" I responded that yes, we did, and he said "ohh okay, we thought you were NORDO, because White Plains couldn't get back in touch with you." At which point I responded with something to the effect of "sorry about that sir, we had left the airspace so we thought we were good to switch." He came back with "Yeah, he hadn't released you yet. No worries though."

Huh? Didn't know I had to be released. Is it something to do with the LOA between White Plains and NY Approach that makes it like a Class C in that you have to contact Approach for sequencing on landing? I thought it was all really strange, and my instructor was mystified too. I've flown into a lot of Deltas and have never had this happen.

 

[cowman]

If you're staying on frequency, you should tell Tower so.

Otherwise, they might try to contact you on 121.5 if they need to, or just not tell you stuff they could otherwise (like converging traffic).

I do usually tell them this. I have yet to hear any indication that they're doing anything with this information though. I think once you're outside their airspace you don't exist for them.

 

[timwinters]

It is easier, faster, and uses less bandwidth to say "Frequency change approved" than it does to educate pilots on proper procedure.

See post #20

 

[MAKG1]

I do usually tell them this. I have yet to hear any indication that they're doing anything with this information though. I think once you're outside their airspace you don't exist for them.

One of the local practice areas is about 7-8 miles south of KLVK, a local Class D. You can't push it too far north due to the Class D, and shouldn't go too far south due to rough terrain. I always like to listen to Tower when playing right outside their airspace.

Without ever entering their airspace, I'll let Tower know I'm there and monitoring. If I happen to stray too far west, there can be a lot of traffic funneling through there due to the pass, and Tower has asked me to move east a few times, generally just as traffic takes off and it's still pretty far away. Similarly, I once got a bit too close to the ILS (too far north and east) for their comfort, as a student.

More to the point, I've heard things like "Bonanza 456AB cleared for takeoff 25R turn left crosswind above 800 traffic circling 6 miles south altitude reads 3500," which I can respond to with "Cessna 123XY is circling traffic, moving 5 east." It's nonstandard, but I can let everyone know I'm aware and cooperating -- and what I'm doing. Standard phraseology would have me silent and everyone else guessing.

 

[jordane93]

If I'm clear ofthe airspace, I won't say anything unless they tell me frequency changed approved which the. I'll respond

 

[C182P]

See post #20

He quoted the entirety of post #20 in the post you quoted him from. Perhaps if there's something you want to draw his attention to within that post, you'd be better off being explicit about it.

 

[timwinters]

He quoted the entirety of post #20 in the post you quoted him from. Perhaps if there's something you want to draw his attention to within that post, you'd be better off being explicit about it.

Actually I meant to respond to Steven, not Bob. This post:

You assume he's wondering where you're at, he's probably not.

As I outlined in #20, they many times call to ask where I'm at...so it's just more expeditious for all to keep them informed.

Bob, OTOH, was just being Bob. Unless he's been to KCGI and knows the controllers and how they operate, he's just throwing darts.

 

[roncachamp]

As I outlined in #20, they many times call to ask where I'm at...so it's just more expeditious for all to keep them informed.

Perhaps they recognize your voice or callsign and provide special handling.

 

[Brad Z]

I had an interesting experience with this once... I was flying in to the NYC area from near Hartford, and did a touch and go at White Planes to qualify for XC time. After departing, we were most definitely clear of the airspace by a long shot and hadn't heard anything, so we switched over to the Hudson frequency because we were going to fly the exclusion. We flew our merry way southbound, and turning around the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, we started a climb and contacted Newark to see if we could do the East River/Central Park transition, which they told us they'd check on with LGA. While they were checking, he came up and said "hey, did you do a touch and go at White Plains earlier?" I responded that yes, we did, and he said "ohh okay, we thought you were NORDO, because White Plains couldn't get back in touch with you." At which point I responded with something to the effect of "sorry about that sir, we had left the airspace so we thought we were good to switch." He came back with "Yeah, he hadn't released you yet. No worries though."

Huh? Didn't know I had to be released. Is it something to do with the LOA between White Plains and NY Approach that makes it like a Class C in that you have to contact Approach for sequencing on landing? I thought it was all really strange, and my instructor was mystified too. I've flown into a lot of Deltas and have never had this happen.

HPN is a bit of a special case where it acts like a de facto class C airport. Tower should have given you a handoff to NY Approach if that's who they wanted you to talk to.

 

[Skip Miller]

Huh? Didn't know I had to be released.

You don't. That's why the controller you last spoke to said "no worries" rather than "I have a number for you to call." The tower controller may have been trying to contact you to point out traffic and you had already switched.

Leaving HPN for the corridor, you were probably heading west for the Tappan Zee Bridge. That route in reverse is a high traffic VFR arrival route for HPN. And I don't know what the LOA says, but all HPN VFR inbound traffic is supposed to be talking to Approach or Tower. Approach may have been on the landline to see if tower could contact you. But no paint was swapped and all is well.

-Skip

 

[Skip Miller]

HPN is a bit of a special case where it acts like a de facto class C airport. Tower should have given you a handoff to NY Approach if that's who they wanted you to talk to.

Agreed. Just to point out that the de facto Class C seems to be inbound only. I have flown out of HPN for years and while VFR I have never been asked to contact approach/departure on departure from HPN.

Well, not never. During a presidential TFR the applicable procedure was to contact departure when released by the tower. But that is clearly not a normal procedure. -Skip

 

[Larry in TN]

Actually, yes he is since he doesn't have radar.

No, he isn't.

He knows how long it takes you to exit his airspace. He isn't providing any (airborne) separation services. If someone calls inbound from your general direction he will give a generic traffic advisory with what he knows about you but that's all.

No need to reinvent the wheel. Just follow the recommendations in the AIM. That's what they are there for.

 

[timwinters]

No need to reinvent the wheel. Just follow the recommendations in the AIM. That's what they are there for.

I'll make sure I tell tower that the next time they ask me for a position report after an inbound plane makes its initial call.



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