Handshake when exiting delta

[BillTIZ]

Local class D tower (VGT) will sometimes call to "clear of class D freq chg approved" if they are not busy with traffic in the pattern. Otherwise I'll call "Red Rocks, southbound" which is clear of his D space.

Even if he clears me off freq, I stay on and monitor, the tower freq is what most inbounds will monitor and report the same point as they approach the D space. I want to hear them. Red Rocks is a normal reporting point for those skirting the west side of the Class B.

If we are going direct to Class B space while VFR we have an assigned "recommended heading", to remain clear of the B, code and freq and get cleared to "contact departure" as soon as we clear the immediate traffic pattern. Don't enter the B until we are radar identified and hear those magic words, "cleared into the class b".

 

[Larry in TN]

I'll make sure I tell tower that the next time they ask me for a position report after an inbound plane makes its initial call.

The AIM could not be more clear.

 

[ron22]

The other day, I was a mile or two outside of D, departing, and tower didn't give me approval to change nor did I, since I'm usually not in a hurry to leave freq unless I need to for upcoming airspace. Tower called and asked if I was still there to which I responded and they called out some traffic for me. Nice group

I fly out of D usually I do not say anything when leaving their airspace when flying VFR.
I do tend to stay on freq for some time after leaving there space. Nice to know about another planes in the area
I have had them do the "are you still with us" calls. So far it has been to call out traffic.

 

[timwinters]

The AIM could not be more clear.

I did a fun little round robin trip today.

H88 > H57 > KFAM > 6MO2 (grass and lunch) > K02 > KCGI > 0T3 (grass) > H88

Whilst on the ground at KCGI I had a nice little chat with tower about this...it was fairly low overcast (MVFR) today and not much was going on so he was pretty bored and able to chat. We talked for a good five minutes as I taxied over to the VOR checkpoint and then back out for take-off. Long story short...his answer was:

"Hell yes I want you to tell me when and where you're exiting my space, especially when I'm busy."

So, I will continue to do so.

FWIW

I do tend to stay on freq for some time after leaving there space. Nice to know about another planes in the area

He mentioned this too, saying that he would like for me to stay on frequency until I'm about 10 miles out, or at least monitor tower on the #2 radio.

 

[Larry in TN]

"Hell yes I want you to tell me when and where you're exiting my space, especially when I'm busy."

So, I will continue to do so.

Plenty of controller who make up their own procedures, too. It isn't just limited to pilots.

Did you ask him what 7110.65 had to say on the issue?

 

[AggieMike88]

Departing KDTO this past Saturday at 0630 local VFR with no flight following being active, I got "Frequency change approved."

But this might have been prompted by my asking for FF but being told they were having issues with the computer network that allowed DTO tower to enter a flight plan into the system. When the controller told me that, he also helpfully offered I could ask for FF with Regional Departure and gave me the frequency, 118.10.

So because I had asked him, and he through I would be wanting to switch to Departure to ask for FF with them, he gave me the frequency change approved.

I frequently see the controllers at the FBO when they are on break. I'll remember to ask them about this handshake question.

 

[Henning]

Seems every time I have gone through Class D, once I am 4-5 miles away, I get "6PC, No traffic observed, frequency change approved"

Last night I departed Class D (Not on FF by the way)

4,5,6,7,8 miles and silence.

Obviously at that point they were done with me so I switched.
Should I let them know I am changing or is it fine once I am out of their airspace to do my own thing.

I assume the courteous thing would be to let them know but is there supposed to be a handshake on exit or is it more informal?

9.5 out of 10 times, they chime in but twice in the last week, it has been this scenario.

What is expected? what do you do?

If the frequency is busy, I'll just go, if not, I'll tell them "69SA switching to Approach, good night."

 

[eetrojan]

It is easier, faster, and uses less bandwidth to say "Frequency change approved" than it does to educate pilots on proper procedure.

Hi Bob - I don't follow. If pilot communications re leaving the controller's airspace are a completely undesired waste of bandwidth, wouldn't it make more sense to spend one short communication to prevent hundreds of future wasteful communications?

If truly undesired, other pilots would hear the controller's short explanation too and, in no time, it would diminish.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Departing KDTO this past Saturday at 0630 local VFR with no flight following being active, I got "Frequency change approved."

But this might have been prompted by my asking for FF but being told they were having issues with the computer network that allowed DTO tower to enter a flight plan into the system. When the controller told me that, he also helpfully offered I could ask for FF with Regional Departure and gave me the frequency, 118.10.

So because I had asked him, and he through I would be wanting to switch to Departure to ask for FF with them, he gave me the frequency change approved.

I frequently see the controllers at the FBO when they are on break. I'll remember to ask them about this handshake question.

The more I fly out of KDTO the more I think the final exchange is evolving into something like this:

"Denton Tower, 55WB is out Yo. Peace"
"55WB, Right on man. Bring me back some food"

I like those guys.

 

[timwinters]

Plenty of controller who make up their own procedures, too. It isn't just limited to pilots.

Did you ask him what 7110.65 had to say on the issue?

Why would I? Simply to p!ss off a nice guy who's trying to keep his airspace safe?

I think this topic parallels the "filing IFR flight plans for VFR flight following trips" debate.

Levy has interpretation letters from his local FSDO, the Aviation Safety Regional Office, the Office of Chief Counsel, from God and, most importantly, from the Flying Spaghetti Monster that affirm this is not allowed.

Yet pilots and controllers do it every day in an effort to make the system more efficient and the skies safer.

So...

Whatever.

I could really give a flying fu...umm...flying spaghetti monster what 7110.65 has to say on the issue.

 

[MarkZ]

Plenty of controller who make up their own procedures, too. It isn't just limited to pilots.

Did you ask him what 7110.65 had to say on the issue?

The .65 doesn't say anything. It's not a "rules" thing. It's a "courtesy" thing...if a guy calls inbound the tower will be telling the arrival about you, and making a call in the blind to you. By telling the tower you are leaving, you save a potential call up. That's assuming the tower has radar and the controller can ensure you've exited the delta.

As for your first sentence, hogwash. We have rules we have to abide by. Cutting corners ensures a day in court should a pilot decide to play chicken with Mother Earth.

 

[Henning]

Why would I? Simply to p!ss off a nice guy who's trying to keep his airspace safe?

I think this topic parallels the "filing IFR flight plans for VFR flight following trips" debate.

Levy has interpretation letters from his local FSDO, the Aviation Safety Regional Office, the Office of Chief Counsel, from God and, most importantly, from the Flying Spaghetti Monster that affirm this is not allowed.

Yet pilots and controllers do it every day in an effort to make the system more efficient and the skies safer.

So...

Whatever.

I could really give a flying fu...umm...flying spaghetti monster what 7110.65 has to say on the issue.

Hmmm, I have on occasion filed IFR for a trip I planned to make VFR under FF as a backup to have in case I needed to go IFR enroute to save the time on frequency to air file. I have never heard a word about filing and not using.

 

[timwinters]

Hmmm, I have on occasion filed IFR for a trip I planned to make VFR under FF as a backup to have in case I needed to go IFR enroute to save the time on frequency to air file. I have never heard a word about filing and not using.

It's been discussed here before. File an instrument plan with a VFR altitude and insert "VFR flight following" in the remarks. Some people regularly do this. I used to when I was traveling for my business. Saves a lot of time when you make your initial call up to get FF since they already have all your info.

 

[Henning]

It's been discussed here before. File an instrument plan with a VFR altitude and insert "VFR flight following" in the remarks. Some people regularly do this. I used to when I was traveling for my business. Saves a lot of time when you make your initial call up to get FF since they already have all your info.

Oh, I don't do that, my flight plan is a correct IFR one. I don't see much benefit in doing it your way, especially if a towered field. I just tell CD or ground on my initial call that I'll be "going to XXX direct at xxxx altitude, like a code for flight following please" and they give me a code and a departure freq, no paperwork or filing at all.

 

[MAKG1]

Oh, I don't do that, my flight plan is a correct IFR one. I don't see much benefit in doing it your way, especially if a towered field. I just tell CD or ground on my initial call that I'll be "going to XXX direct at xxxx altitude, like a code for flight following please" and they give me a code and a departure freq, no paperwork or filing at all.

Not all towered airports can do that, but it takes very little info to get flight following in the air.

Position, altitude, destination, maybe target altitude and rough route of flight (only if it's far from direct). If you've prefiled, you still need position and altitude.

 

[Henning]

Not all towered airports can do that, but it takes very little info to get flight following in the air.

Position, altitude, destination, maybe target altitude and rough route of flight (only if it's far from direct). If you've prefiled, you still need position and altitude.

Thing is, there is no "prefiling VFR FF" since there is no filing VFR anything. Only once did ground say "unable" to me and that was at Hayward. Since they were pretty much dead, I responded, "Seriously? You can't get me a squawk? Ok" Before I got to the run up area she gave me my squawk. I can't imagine what would cause a towered airport to not be able to get you a code besides laziness. When I run into laziness I find the best counter is shame.

 

[roncachamp]

Thing is, there is no "prefiling VFR FF" since there is no filing VFR anything. Only once did ground say "unable" to me and that was at Hayward. Since they were pretty much dead, I responded, "Seriously? You can't get me a squawk? Ok" Before I got to the run up area she gave me my squawk. I can't imagine what would cause a towered airport to not be able to get you a code besides laziness. When I run into laziness I find the best counter is shame.

Oh, but there is. We've been over this many times. You simply file an IFR flight plan with "VFR" as the requested altitude.

 

[Larry in TN]

I could really give a flying fu...umm...flying spaghetti monster what 7110.65 has to say on the issue.

And that's the problem right there. Nobody's interested in following the published guidelines.

 

[Cavorter]

I think this topic parallels the "filing IFR flight plans for VFR flight following trips" debate.

Levy has interpretation letters from his local FSDO, the Aviation Safety Regional Office, the Office of Chief Counsel, from God and, most importantly, from the Flying Spaghetti Monster that affirm this is not allowed.

Really? I do this occasionally. Is it really not allowed?

 

[timwinters]

And that's the problem right there. Nobody's interested in following the published guidelines.

Or it may be that some think helping to keep the skies safe is more important than some published guideline that may not be applicable to this situation.

BTW...the AIM section that Levy quoted back on the first page doesn't say it should not be done but rather that it is not necessary. There's a big difference 'twixt the two especially when the particular tower requests it. I still say that this AIM section applies more to B, C & D with radar since those guys do know where you're at. The guy at CGI without radar does not.

Regardless, I'm done.

Really? I do this occasionally. Is it really not allowed?

It depends on if you ask Ron Levy or Steven P McNicoll. One says no, one says yes. One is a controller so I think I'll put my faith in him (hint, the one that says yes)

 

[Henning]

And that's the problem right there. Nobody's interested in following the published guidelines.

Actually this is the problem right here, believing that guidelines are hard and fast rules that must be obeyed. Guidelines are just that, guides as to how to do something in average circumstances. Sometimes circumstances aren't average so you do it a different way because it works better. There is no problem without at least 3 solutions, use the best one that gets the job done.

 

[Johann]

I can't imagine what would cause a towered airport to not be able to get you a code besides laziness. When I run into laziness I find the best counter is shame.

That happened to me once, but they said approach was not answering the phone or something like that, to try once airborne.
They were really busy when I called from the air, so I guess they weren't BSing me (also, I got it from them before so in this case it didn't seem like laziness).