Gulfstream Girl

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flyingcheesehead said:
Really, how is another thousand or two hours in the right seat of a Cessna gonna do her, or anyone, any good at all? Total hours is a pretty meaningless measure, IMO. As has been said many times before, do you have 1000 hours, or do you have the same hour 1000 times? I think MOST people just getting into jets have a fairly equivalent amount of real-world experience as Gulfstream Girl did.

There are others, like David, who have a lot more real-world experience - Long solo cross country flight. I'd hire David in a heartbeat over someone who had five times the total time but got it all circling the patch. Well, that is, if I ever hired a pilot. :rofl:
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While I believe the FAA increasing Part 121 FO mins to ATP and 1,500 hrs is overkill, IMO 250 hrs just isn't enough. I was a far better pilot at 1,000 hrs than I was at 250 hrs. I believe quality over quantity as well but you have to have some cutoff. Why do insurance companies reduce premiums with an increase in flight time?
 
I don't believe in the same hour 1,000 times belief. If you flew the same route 1,000 times, every singe day, you will have a multitude of different experiences in weather, performance, abnormalities etc. What I do think is a factor, when somebody says they are a 2500 hour pilot with 50 ME, saying they have the experience to fly a complex, fast, ME aircraft.
 
Every video on youtube shows her in the right seat with a rather experienced (as in grey and bald) captain in the left. Some of the popular reporting nonwithstanding, I dont think she is flying left-seat in a GIV.
 
Inverted said:
I don't believe in the same hour 1,000 times belief. If you flew the same route 1,000 times, every singe day, you will have a multitude of different experiences in weather, performance, abnormalities etc.
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Yeah, but IMO ya gotta go somewhere. Like you said, "route." Flying around the pattern 5000 times just doesn't do it. You'll never get into weather, work with different controllers, see different climates and terrain, different airports, yadda yadda yadda.
 
Inverted said:
I don't believe in the same hour 1,000 times belief. If you flew the same route 1,000 times, every singe day, you will have a multitude of different experiences in weather, performance, abnormalities etc. What I do think is a factor, when somebody says they are a 2500 hour pilot with 50 ME, saying they have the experience to fly a complex, fast, ME aircraft.
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Depends on the 2,500. If most is traveling cross country in high performance singles, dealing with weather and ATC, that's a bit different than 2,500 dual-given in sunny AZ.

As for ME, most pilots have more engine failures simulated before their ME checkride than they'll likely see in several thousand hours of ME flying. When both are turning they're not much different than a high-performance single.

I was at around 350 hrs in college when I got offered right seat in a C414 part-time. Any deadhead legs I got the left seat while the chief pilot slept in back.
 
ClimbnSink said:
She got the job because she is a pretty enough girl. She can do the job because flying is easy.
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This is absolutely true, but it overlooks the real issue. In the military we have a saying: "We don't get paid for what we do, we get paid for what we're capable of doing". Flying "normal normal good blinker" is a monkey's job, the problem arises when it's batter-up time and the systems go down and now you're wrestling a crippled jet behind the power curve in a task saturated environment in degrading weather and it's all eyes on you baby. That's when having a babysitting job on the right seat can quickly kill everybody in a new york minute.

That is the real false economy of the GGs of the world. Watching your cutesy right seater lose her composure in an imminent death situation as you try to recover systems while having to contend with the textbook "improper response to stress" that's happening real-time on the right seat and wondering to yourself "they don't pay me enough for this *****..." has got to be a real kick in the junk. You couldn't pay me enough to be put in that situation. We got plenty of weak swimmers in the military too and it always sucked being the seeing-eye IP/AC in the flight. No free lunch in the world. No eye candy is worth opening the "giddy up" bag to find out right seat baby over here is a cardboard cutout of a real pilot...
 
Yup. But the odds of having a high speed operator in the right seat ain't great anyway, might as well have something pretty to swear at for the rest of your life.
 
hindsight2020 said:
This is absolutely true, but it overlooks the real issue. In the military we have a saying: "We don't get paid for what we do, we get paid for what we're capable of doing". Flying "normal normal good blinker" is a monkey's job, the problem arises when it's batter-up time and the systems go down and now you're wrestling a crippled jet behind the power curve in a task saturated environment in degrading weather and it's all eyes on you baby. That's when having a babysitting job on the right seat can quickly kill everybody in a new york minute.

That is the real false economy of the GGs of the world. Watching your cutesy right seater lose her composure in an imminent death situation as you try to recover systems while having to contend with the textbook "improper response to stress" that's happening real-time on the right seat and wondering to yourself "they don't pay me enough for this *****..." has got to be a real kick in the junk. You couldn't pay me enough to be put in that situation. We got plenty of weak swimmers in the military too and it always sucked being the seeing-eye IP/AC in the flight. No free lunch in the world. No eye candy is worth opening the "giddy up" bag to find out right seat baby over here is a cardboard cutout of a real pilot...
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So you're assuming she couldn't handle the sheyatt hitting the fan because she's blonde and cute?
 
LDJones said:
So you're assuming she couldn't handle the sheyatt hitting the fan because she's blonde and cute?
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That's what all the hubub with GG is about. If she was male, 40 and balding, everything would be a-ok.
 
I'd like to point out something to consider...

Maybe, just maybe, she was hired at 250hrs on purpose. Maybe the person who hired her wanted to take someone who was young and willing to learn to fly with someone who is very experienced and train her the way they want. Not doing T&G's with students for 8 hours a day, not doing the same engine out ILS every day.. but doing the real flying that is done for their company. By pairing her with someone who is seasoned, they can teach her what they want her to know.. in addition to the type rating(s) that she clearly passed. She may have good looks, it may have helped her get her foot in the door.. But she's also proven by her ratings and her enthusiasm that she can fly and that she's willing to learn.

When my dentist retired a few years ago, I was excited. Why? Well I hate the dentist so I was hoping I could stop going. Kidding of course... but a new guy fresh out of school came in and bought his practice. He turned out to be MUCH better, even with less experience. Just because you have more time at something doesn't mean you're necessarily better or worse. She has someone in the left seat to help mold her judgement, which is likely what she's lacking. So everyone chill out, have a beer and stop worrying about her. I'm sorry you didn't get a job at 250hrs flying a G-IV.. but that doesn't mean you have to hate on her.
 
Working at the airport I have met her. However I did not know her "story" until now.

That being said I can not make much of a judgment. Don't know her well. Only spent a brief time with her and have seen her around the airport on other occasions going out on intro flights and such. Seems intuitive. Like I said I can not say much for her skill. She is very pretty however.

I know people that become 737-800 F/O with a full type at 500 hrs. Some deserved it some didn't. I've met 180 hr COM SEL MEL IR who I wouldn't fly with for any amount of money. Not saying that the number of hours matter. What does matter is the person. We don't know her. We can't judge her accurately without knowing her.

I have taught ATP's jet systems. I have had instructors who have had less actual time than I as a student pilot. I am only a PPL. These things a quite relative.

I personally would love the opportunity but I don't know that I would consider myself qualified for the position at the time. I don't know that I would turn it down either though. I have a significant amount in Level C & D simulators for MEJ's, I have developed training software for a few MEJ's, I don't think I am qualified in the amount or the quality of hours I presently have to fly an MEJ. I'm just shy of 200. This doesn't mean she can't do it.

Insurance companies deal in numbers. They want more time because we can draw a correlation between time and accidents. However correlations are misleading.
 
I knew someone who was hired as a FO on a Lear 45 with only 300hrs.
 
Haters Gonna Hate :)

David, sorry I missed your edited comments, but I often fight jealousy and envy when contemplating your situation. I think about that 172 and all of that Avgas burned flying around the US. I think about that sweet Mooney and your upcoming trip/adventure to Alaska. I and sit here and realize that I haven't really flown for 3 or 4 years and it was a 10 year gap before that.

Then I realize how lucky you are and how happy I'd be to have something similar.

I was running 70' yachts for a living in my early 20's. I did not get the job because of my looks and I was only marginally qualified. A good attitude and willingness to learn and serve was probably the main reason they kept me around and tolerated my ineptitude :) Granted, not as easy to get killed on a yacht as in an airplane, but I'm just pointing out my own "more fortunate than I deserve" experience in my 20's.

Signed,
Old and Fat 41 yr old....
 
I would have a difficult time flying with her.



I get case of the Raving Stupids around pretty females who are more competent than I am :) You can see the illness onset as my jaw drops and I start mouth-breathing. :p
 
The reasons, circumstances, and situation surrounding her accomplishments are beyond reproach: she had an opportunity and she succeeded at it.

Quit your whining and moaning and move on, folks. It's childish, reprehensible, and frighteningly juvenile.
 
Morne said:
Please, tell us about the supermodel on your arm.
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I don't have to be married to Kathy Ireland to know that GG isn't hot.
 
Morne said:
Please, tell us about the supermodel on your arm.

I had never heard of this pilot before this thread. The attitudes in here are beyond awful. Get your misogyny treated.

Is she legally qualified to do the job? Yes? Then the matter is closed. An employer can hire or not hire whomever he/she wishes for whatever reason. The ugly hippy chicks who protest in front of Hooters are laughable NOT because they are ugly but because they think they can (or should) be able to influence a private party's hiring practices.

Reminds me of the last administration and the famous photo of some women protesting the war with a sign that read, "Dykes against Bush.":rofl:

There's a whole bunch of dang busy-bodies around here. Y'all are as bad as a sewing circle sometimes. It ain't NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS who I hire to do what, so long as the LAW IS UNBROKEN. Keep your nose in your own business before someone comes along and demands to know why you hired your son to mow your lawn.
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This post sums it up for me!
 
astanley said:
Quit your whining and moaning and move on, folks. It's childish, reprehensible, and frighteningly juvenile.
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Oh yeah?! And you're a doo doo head! :D

Look, its very easy to just say "she has the looks, she got the job". Personally I think that DID play a role.

That being said, as many pilots know, getting something like this is also very much being in the right place at the right time and knowing the right people.

At my local airport a Pilatus magically appeared. The pilatus was new and based here. The pilot of the Pilatus walked in to the flight school one day and asked the few random CFIs if they would like to be right seat gear swingers. Of course they said yes and they all did a few flights on the Pilatus, free of charge just for the sake of seeing what a turbo-prop is like. A few months pass and I hire a new CFI, a young lady fresh out of school with a whopping 279 flight hours to her name. When I offered her the position she said that she needed to inform me that she also WORKS for a Pilatus based on the field and that she will be gone every now and then on trips.

So she gets paid, pretty well I suppose for being a gear swinger to sit right seat in the Pilatus. One could think the same thing about her as they do about GG. Thats not why she got the job on the Pilatus. It just happens that the guy who is running the Pilatus gig was her primary CFI.

Its all about who you know and if you are ready to open the door when opportunity knocks.

That being said, I still dont think that anyone with just 250 hours and a wet CPL is qualified to fly high performance ANYTHING but then again in Europe, many FO's start out on 737s etc with only 300ish hours...
 
Bob Noel said:
I don't have to be married to Kathy Ireland to know that GG isn't hot.
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Not that there's anything wrong with your alternative lifestyle, but try not judging what us hetero men like, mmmkay?
 
Bob Noel said:
I don't have to be married to Kathy Ireland to know that GG isn't hot.
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LOL, why are there so many old and angry people? She's not the best looking woman in the world, but I've seen far worse. She's probably on the more average side of "hot". She earned her ratings like, yesterday and flies in some capacity in a shiny jet. So? Get over yourself. :D
 
It's pretty interesting to see the level of jealousy on here, especially from people on here who have had their share of good luck and opportunities, and are in no place to complain. It would be like me complaining that the 310 donated to Cloud Nine had engines at TBO and the 530 hadn't been upgraded to WAAS yet. Oh no, the huge manatee!

No, she didn't "pay her dues" the way most people do before getting a Gulfstream job. Then again, aviation is full of such stories, and it all comes down to right place/right time. I didn't pay my dues before moving to a FIKI twin at 225 hours, I just went out and bought it. I won't point out others on here (including people complaining) who didn't pay their dues, either. Her experience means she's lacking a lot of background, but she'll also learn a lot flying with a gray-haired guy who's probably done it all and seen it all, and can probably handle the plane single pilot anyway. Not like she's soloing the thing.

Now, by virtue of labeling herself as "Gulfstream Girl" she'll receive this sort of critiicism from at least some people. And she'll receive a lot of likes on Facebook because the majority of pilots have proven they lack maturity and start drooling at the prospect of a blonde in an airplane. It's part of the deal - I get positive and negative comments for running a non-profit. I won't like her on Facebook because I don't think there's really anything special to like. But, if some girl gets the idea that she can be a pilot, then there's probably some good.

Quit yer bitching, and go out and find an opportunity yourself.
 
Let's get the thread straight here. I didn't start it over jealousy. I fly helicopters for a living so unless it's a fighter pilot, I envy no one. I brought the subject up as a way to look at 1. How important is physical appearance in hiring a pilot, and 2. Is flight time all that important in hiring or is it a matter of ratings? I wanted to hear honest, objective opinions on the matter.

I've been going over page after page of corporate FO pilot jobs and you know what, I haven't seen one that even comes to a minimum qualification of 250 hrs TT. Most had at least 1,500 hrs TT with a min of 500 hrs Multi. As far as Gulfstreams here's a random example for one in Georgia:
2,500 hrs TT (3,000 TT preferred)
500 hrs multi turbine time (1,500 Multi turbine preferred)
FAA first class physical
Airline Transport Pilot certificate
Capable of obtaining a G-150 type cert within one year of hire (preferred to already have)
Strong customer service skills and at least posses a high school diploma (preferred AA or BA degree)

Of course the job lists numerous other qualifications but thats the gist of the flight experience. Many other Gulfstream SIC spots online that have the same or hirer qualifications. So, are we saying that the corporate community operates with such a disparity of a min of 250 hrs TT and a ME, to 2,500 hrs TT and 500 turbine ME? Come on.

How many times have we had first time posters on here say " hey guys I'm looking at becoming a commercial pilot and want guidance on how to get it done." then most people who are in the business crush their hopes by telling them to forget it. They'll have to pay thousands of dollars and spend years making peanuts as a CFI. Why don't they just say the market is great. All you have to do is get 250 hrs and a ME rating and you're in? Sure doesn't seem like that's the norm out there to me.

For those who can't possibly believe that looks wouldn't be a factor in hiring I ask this. Could it not be beneficial to hire a model and "public figure" as a way of increasing revenues? Also if you don't believe old, intelligent men don't go absolutely stupid when around young, attractive females, you need to wake up and smell the coffee.:yesnod:
 
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w_privett said:
You've got one who posts on here. At age 19 and sub-200 hours in a logbook I gave him a B200 type rating and put him to work flying it single pilot. He had some additional time flying pipeline inspection in a POS O-2 in a sandlot somewhere but that wasn't documented. He did great for me in the king air.

About the same time I gave the same deal to a 20 year old canadian girl and a 20-something russian boy. They started in C-421's because that's the job I needed done. They also did fine.

After a few months on the job I sent all 3 to georgia to take sim training in the AN24 and they all passed. 18 months later I moved the boys again, Jeff to FO and Viktor to FE in a TU-114. Google that and imagine what it took to keep one running in the 90's when they were 30 years old. The boys again did fine. The girl fell out of my favour around that time - she developed an interest in helicopters. I cut her loose before that disease spread to the rest of the herd.

So yes, it does happen. But then the job was not exactly the same. For one thing, I doubt the blondie in the gulfstream was issued a Saiga-12 as part of her flight kit.
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If you get me rated ill fly for you:yes:
 
On the corporate pilot jet SIC requirements, there are definitely companies that hire low time pilots to stick in the right seat. We've got one person on here who was flying right seat in Lears with well under 1,000 hours and no previous turbine time. Seemed most people were positive at him getting that job...
 
Velocity173 said:
Let's get the thread straight here. I didn't start it over jealousy. I fly helicopters for a living so unless it's a fighter pilot, I envy no one. I brought the subject up as a way to look at 1. How important is physical appearance in hiring a pilot, and 2. Is flight time all that important in hiring or is it a matter of ratings? I wanted to hear honest, objective opinions on the matter.

I've been going over page after page of corporate FO pilot jobs and you know what? I've haven't seen one that even comes to a minimum qualification of 250 hrs TT. Most had at least 1,500 hrs TT with a min of 500 hrs Multi. As far as Gulfstreams here's a random example for one in Georgia:
2,500 hrs TT (3,000 TT preferred)
500 hrs multi turbine time (1,500 Multi turbine preferred)
FAA first class physical
Airline Transport Pilot certificate
Capable of obtaining a G-150 type cert within one year of hire (preferred to already have)
Strong customer service skills and at least posses a high school diploma (preferred AA or BA degree)

Of course the job lists numerous other qualifications but thats the gist of the flight experience. Many other Gulfstream SIC spots online that have the same or hirer qualifications. So, are we saying that the corporate community operates with such a disparity of a min of 250 hrs TT and a ME, to 2,500 hrs TT and 500 turbine ME? Come on.

How many times have we had first time posters on here say " hey guys I'm looking at becoming a commercial pilot and want guidance on how to get it done." then most people who are in the business crush their hopes by telling them to forget it. They'll have to pay thousands of dollars and spend years making peanuts as a CFI. Why don't they just say the market is great. All you have to do is get 250 hrs and a ME rating and you're in? Sure doesn't seem like that's the norm out there to me.

For those who can't possibly believe that looks wouldn't be a factor in hiring I ask this. Could it not be beneficial to hire a model and "public figure" as a way of increasing revenues? Also if you don't believe old, intelligent men do go absolutely stupid when around young, attractive females, you need to wake up and smell the coffee.:yesnod:
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What you're seeing in the job listing is a company narrowing their list of applicants. They don't want to sift through 5,000 resume's so the set the bar high. But if the chief pilot gets introduced to a sharp, personable young pilot within whom he sees lots of potential, the FAA minimums may be good enough. Being female, blonde and cute may not hurt in opening that door, but I suspect she has a lot more going for her than just looks.

As has been said frequently in this thread: right place, right time opens lots of doors. Call it kismet, call it fate...that's life.
 
Corpsmaide said:
If you get me rated ill fly for you:yes:
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There was a reason winnie preferred hiring 20 year old kids. We didn't know any better and we were disposable. Being a coward, I left the pilot's bunkhouse and moved in with the DeBeer's security guys we had on-site. No one robbed them in the middle of the night.
 
Morne said:
Not that there's anything wrong with your alternative lifestyle, but try not judging what us hetero men like, mmmkay?
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If you don't know what you are talking about, it's better just to not say anything.
 
The only women I like are the female kind. All girl-shaped and stuff, they make me smile. When they are smart and capable and interesting to be around, it's even better. I married one of those.

I am perfectly ready to accept the possibility that she was the beneficiary of an opportunity based upon events and factors other than pure pilot skill and credentials- fine, it's a continuum, we all are to one degree or another. If this pilot succeeds as a professional pilot in the long run, it will be because she (1) flies well and safely, (2) works well with others and (3) is fortunate in her choices of gigs.

Best of luck to her, and to every other low-time, but ambitious, pilot.
 
I just read all 23 pages of the Glamour Girl thread on the airline pilots forum. It's interesting that they're as divided on the subject there as we are here. Only we're nicer to each other.
 
I haven't read all this thread so forgive me if this has already been brought up. Wasn't there an episode in the Ice Fliers (or whatever they called that program) where the girl came back and they put her right in the DC-3 to the chagrin of the line boys who'd been "working their way up"?
Was the "girly" quality of the aspirant pilot in the Alaska show played up a bit, or was that just a personality issue?
In any event, I flew right seat in jets with very little multi-time and about 1200 hours total time, most of it CFI. Pretty green in terms of "real" cross-country operations in bigger airplanes in weather to busy airports. It was a "right time, right place" issue, no doubt about it. I didn't work my way up flying chickens or checks at night in bad weather as many have and would want all of us to do.
 
1) She is definitely well above average. If you don't believe me, go take a walk and count how many women you see that you rate as high or higher.

2) People like to be around attractive people. Consequently, attactive people get better offers, and more free help. There have been studies on this. Consequently, there is a high likelihood that her looks played some part in getting her the job.

3) Life isn't fair. Either get over it, or don't. Your choice.
 
Gerhardt said:
I just read all 23 pages of the Glamour Girl thread on the airline pilots forum. It's interesting that they're as divided on the subject there as we are here. Only we're nicer to each other.
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You mean we can be worse to each other, who woulda thought.
 
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