Getting ready to line up and wait?

[Ted]

I agree, but some people only make it harder for themselves when they don't accept the change to begin with. What is the point of raising your blood pressure every time you hear the dreaded phrase after September 30?

Exactly. I can think of much more worthwhile things to get your blood pressure raised over... and even those, I don't let my blood pressure raise.

 

[John Baker]

"the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has announced that the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) "line up and wait" phraseology will be effective on September 30. This replaces the current FAA phraseology, "taxi in to position and hold."

This does not appear to be a debatable issue. Your government has spoken, you will comply.

John

 

[Clark1961]

Blimey, I don't see the que but I'll sure line up!

 

[OffCenter]

Line up and wait? Behind who??

+1 for goofy.

 

[jesse]

I think it's confusing. Maybe it makes since to the Brits. "Line up" doesn't really indicate to me that I'm supposed to position on the runway or "line up" with the runway while on the runway. It sounds like I'm supposed to wait in "line" before the runway.

Oh well. I'll get used to it.

 

[Ted]

I think it's confusing. Maybe it makes since to the Brits. "Line up" doesn't really indicate to me that I'm supposed to position on the runway or "line up" with the runway while on the runway. It sounds like I'm supposed to wait in "line" before the runway.

Oh well. I'll get used to it.

Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense. But neither does "Position and hold." What position, and where am I holding? There is no holding pattern involved.

 

[sba55]

This is a silly phrase - I can't think of another instance where "line up" or "wait" is used. "Standby", "hold", "taxi", etc. are all used elsewhere and are part of the standard vocabulary.

I'm all for standardization, but why not standardize everything? What's the ICAO phrases/words for "standby" or "hold"?

 

[wabower]

Evidently, one of them is "wait" or at least it has been for the past 12 years I've been flying international. Just be thankful we're not getting the conditional clearance portion as well. In Beirut, I got "Gulfstream 502KA, after the Airbus lands, line up and wait." Which part of the clearance (in heavily accented English) would be easiest to miss?

This is a silly phrase - I can't think of another instance where "line up" or "wait" is used. "Standby", "hold", "taxi", etc. are all used elsewhere and are part of the standard vocabulary.

I'm all for standardization, but why not standardize everything? What's the ICAO phrases/words for "standby" or "hold"?

 

[kmies]

How many in the rest of the world? Serious question. Anyone know?

600,001

 

[EdFred]

600,001

So why is the minority ruling?

613,746 as of 2008 here in the US.

 

[kmies]

So why is the minority ruling?

613,746 as of 2008 here in the US.

Because there is only 1 FAA and a lot more CAA's. :wink2:

 

[wabower]

Same reason we use BR for mist and FU for smoke.

So why is the minority ruling?

613,746 as of 2008 here in the US.

 

[EdFred]

Same reason we use BR for mist and FU for smoke.

I use FU in a much different context.

 

[wabower]

So do the French. And this time you (and all other US pilots) are the phuckee's.

I use FU in a much different context.

 

[wabower]

FYI, If this explanation hasn't already been part of a prior post. If so, disregard.


FAA Adopts ICAO’s ‘Line Up and Wait’ Terminology[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Current FAA terminology for an air traffic controller’s instruction for a pilot to taxi onto the runway and await takeoff clearance is “position and hold.” However, this will change on September 30 to “line up and wait,” which is the standard terminology under International Civil Aviation Organization guidelines. The FAA’s decision comes 10 years after the NTSB recommended that the FAA adopt and require the use of standard ICAO phraseology for airport surface operations. In addition, the FAA’s air traffic procedures advisory committee has also requested the agency revise U.S. policy to require the use of “line up and wait” rather than “position and hold.” And the FAA runway safety call to action committee has issued several recommendations to address improving runway safety across the National Airspace System. In response to these recommendations, the FAA’s ATO Terminal Services convened a safety risk management panel to identify and assess the risks associated with changing the current phraseology from “position and hold” to “line up and wait.” The panel cleared the change, and next month it will take effect. Transport Canada made an identical move to the new phraseology in March 2008.

[/FONT]

 

[EdFred]

Typical spineless boorackracy allowing the rest of the world to dictate what we do in our own airspace. Way to have a backbone USA!

 

[Ted]

Typical spineless boorackracy allowing the rest of the world to dictate what we do in our own airspace. Way to have a backbone USA!

English is still the universal language required for flight (not to mention most other things). I really don't see what the problem is on this. This isn't a matter of having a backbone or not.

 

[jxdrl]

Same reason we use BR for mist and FU for smoke.

Baby rain.

 

[chucky]

Baby rain.

Not only do I automatically read BR as baby rain in my head now, but I do it in Martha King's voice.

 

[sba55]

I still don't understand why it's not "line up and standby". Why are we using "wait" in this one instance rather than an equivalent and universally understood word?

 

[kmies]

English is still the universal language required for flight (not to mention most other things). I really don't see what the problem is on this. This isn't a matter of having a backbone or not.

Hmmm, try flying on this side of the pond and enjoy the universal language required for flight.

 

[Bob Noel]

and just to continue the drift:

There are 10 types of people in the world.
Those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[RogerT]

I will just acknowledge the instruction with "position and hold, 7DS"

That would seem to conflict with the FAA's instructions that pilots read
back using the new phraseology.

RT

 

[RogerT]

It isn't broke, but it isn't in line with the rest of the world. It is just a move to standardize the US with the rest of the ICAO nations. Like it or not.

I've on occasion been tempted to use the old "Negative Stage III" .. somehow
I don't think that'll work any more. haha.

 

[Everskyward]

I still don't understand why it's not "line up and standby". Why are we using "wait" in this one instance rather than an equivalent and universally understood word?

Because, as has been mentioned before, the point was not to invent new terminology but to come in line with what they use in most of the rest of the world. We should consider ourselves lucky we are saying "wait" instead of "attandez".

 

[SCCutler]

Because, as has been mentioned before, the point was not to invent new terminology but to come in line with what they use in most of the rest of the world. We should consider ourselves lucky we are saying "wait" instead of "attandez".

Nope.

That'd be to Écouter

 

[wabower]

"And with each the dawning of each new day, you can expect that a fresh supply of wadded panties will manifest itself from the pilot lounge at the local airport. "

anon

Because, as has been mentioned before, the point was not to invent new terminology but to come in line with what they use in most of the rest of the world. We should consider ourselves lucky we are saying "wait" instead of "attandez".

 

[Everskyward]

"And with each the dawning of each new day, you can expect that a fresh supply of wadded panties will manifest itself from the pilot lounge at the local airport. "

anon

Wait until the FAA decides we should be saying "decimal" instead of "point". Holy cow, three syllables instead of one.

 

[wabower]

Even some of the European controllers balk at this one and say dot instead.

Wait until the FAA decides we should be saying "decimal" instead of "point". Holy cow, three syllables instead of one.

 

[poadeleted20]

I still don't understand why it's not "line up and standby".

Because there's not enough room in most cockpits to stand.

 

[poadeleted20]

Wait until the FAA decides we should be saying "decimal" instead of "point". Holy cow, three syllables instead of one.

The US military has been teaching it that way for many decades. One less thing I had to relearn when they sent me to fly in the Pacific and European theaters.

And how about "roller landings" instead of "touch and go's," and "circuits" instead of "traffic patterns"? The list goes on...

 

[Everskyward]

Nope.

That'd be to Écouter

To listen? That's something we don't do too well here either.

 

[nddons]

Not only do I automatically read BR as baby rain in my head now, but I do it in Martha King's voice.

As do I.

 

[nddons]

This is a silly phrase - I can't think of another instance where "line up" or "wait" is used. "Standby", "hold", "taxi", etc. are all used elsewhere and are part of the standard vocabulary.

I'm all for standardization, but why not standardize everything? What's the ICAO phrases/words for "standby" or "hold"?

It does seem odd. "Taxi into position and hold" answers what you are to do, where you are to do it, and what you are to do after that. "Line up and wait" doesn't seem to tell you that much.

I wonder how much other terminology that we use is different from ICAO?

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Airlines have been staunch advocates of this move, especially those that fly internationally. My retired-777-pilot friend told me that while he was working aviation safety, they investigated a runway incursion in Frankfurt that was caused by one of their 777 crews taking a "hold in position" (equivalent to "hold short", or "don't move") call from Frankfurt tower as a "position and hold". They taxied onto the runway in front of a Lufthansa 747 on short final.

The U.S. crew was so used to hearing "position AND hold" in the U.S. that they assumed that was their clearance. Almost had another Tenerife.

 

[gkainz]

"line up and wait ..."

anyone else hear Vinny Barbarino's voice in their head answering "wait fer wha?"

 

[airguy]

Ok, explain to me just why you, and the collective you, have an issue with "Line up and Wait". Is it just because it is different than what you are used to?

Because it wasn't broke, and it didn't need fixing. All they did was make a change for the sake of doing something to justify their job.

Yeah, yeah.... I know. Just sayin'.....

 

[Matthew]

Just got back from flying this morning. I haven't flown for a couple weeks, so I don't know when it started, but the briefer told me to expect "line up and wait" starting tomorrow. He said they'll be reminding everybody about it for the next couple of months. Then I got the ATIS (I fly out of a Class D), it was mentioned on their, too.

I can't remember the last time I ever got a "position and hold" anyway, so I wonder how long until I get a real live "line up and wait"?

 

[Greg Bockelman]

All they did was make a change for the sake of doing something to justify their job.

Well, not really. They did it to bring us inline with the rest of the ICAO world. It wasn't "Change for Change's sake".

 

[kkoran]

Because it wasn't broke, and it didn't need fixing. All they did was make a change for the sake of doing something to justify their job.

Yeah, yeah.... I know. Just sayin'.....

What do you know and what are you saying?