texasclouds
En-Route
????
Getting logbook back
- Thread starter mtaylor
- Start date
mtaylor
Pre-Flight
I'm looking at the logbooks and the mechanic just signed them a few days ago. So his reason for not giving the logbooks to me is because the paperwork had not been completed. Should I file a ASRS report?
DaleB
Final Approach
If you think a report of a maintenance facility that failed to fill out your log book on time will materially contribute to aviation safety.
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pigpenracing
En-Route
Fill out what? You blew this way out of proportion and lost a mechanic in the process. You were scared to talk to the mechanic and ask for the dumb little logbooks.
I don't buy this whole deal. It sure happened quick from the time you sent a text to the time you went to get the logs. Then you called a cop in the middle and waited on him.
Then you post online you got the logs in no time flat. Is the airport and police station across the street from your house?
I would feel really dumb telling a story like this.
mtaylor
Pre-Flight
Purchased a propeller, two magnetos and an oil change three months ago. The owner of the FBO said I was OK to fly the plane. Just got the logbooks back and the work is dated this week. I did talk to the mechanic. He kept making excuses. You should feel dumb
pigpenracing
En-Route
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
Who goes to an unknown shop for an oil change and buys new mags and a prop?
pigpenracing
En-Route
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
Mark Taylor does
Hope he doesn’t have a panel light inop, he end up with a new radio stack.
mtaylor
Pre-Flight
When I purchased the plane it needed a new prop. But the magnetos were a big surprise.
mtaylor
Pre-Flight
I'm smart... I can keep up with my airplanes and logbooks
My first airplane, had it for less than 6 months.
You have nothing to lose by doing so, especially if you flew the aircraft 2 months ago and the approval for return to service was signed and dated this week.
In this case it is not the safety aspect but the violation side. If in fact there was an "altercation" over this and the shop decides to call the FSDO about an illegal flight on Monday, the ASRS report could mean the difference between a review or letter vs a fine and certificate suspension.
sourdough44
En-Route
https://www.thespectrum.com/story/n...anges-dates-2019-closure-late-may/1435543002/
Just get your plane out before they close the field for the Summer. Looks like major runway refurb is planned.
Just get your plane out before they close the field for the Summer. Looks like major runway refurb is planned.
Mark, you learned a lesson. I think both in assertiveness and in not giving your logs to someone you’ve never dealt with before. Unlike pigpen, not everyone has a long history with aircraft mechanics they can lean on. Sometimes you have to go to someone you don’t know if you can trust. When you do, don’t give them your logs. Hell, I don’t give my logs even to someone I trust because **** can happen outside their control even if they are trustworthy, and they just plain don’t need them anyway in most cases.
The same thing happened to me the first time I had my prop hub inspected. I actually didn’t mean for them to get my logbook, but I had them pick up the prop for convenience and I happened to have the logbook laying nearby and they saw it and took it when they got the prop. Then I had to chase them around for a week until they dropped off my prop log - AND some other poor slobs aircraft logs.....
The same thing happened to me the first time I had my prop hub inspected. I actually didn’t mean for them to get my logbook, but I had them pick up the prop for convenience and I happened to have the logbook laying nearby and they saw it and took it when they got the prop. Then I had to chase them around for a week until they dropped off my prop log - AND some other poor slobs aircraft logs.....
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Drake the Outlaw
In a similar situation, the FAA sent two representatives from the MIDO (?) to interview the IA in the hangar adjacent to mine about holding someone's logbooks. I walked in on the "discussion" and left. My curiosity had been piqued by the government issue mini-van parked at his hangar and by the two guys with 'round the neck badge holders.
The IA had some roundabout story about how he wasn't holding the logs because of non-payment, but for some reason hadn't returned them (I don't remember the details). The story was bogus and flimsy, and the MIDO guys told him to return the logs immediately - he had no authority to keep them and it would be an FAA problem for him if those instructions weren't followed. IIRC, the IA indicated the matter was going to be settled in civil courts. I didn't hear about the resolution, so either the IA dropped the case, lost, or it hasn't gone to court yet. (He'd have told me if he won the suit.)
The IA had some roundabout story about how he wasn't holding the logs because of non-payment, but for some reason hadn't returned them (I don't remember the details). The story was bogus and flimsy, and the MIDO guys told him to return the logs immediately - he had no authority to keep them and it would be an FAA problem for him if those instructions weren't followed. IIRC, the IA indicated the matter was going to be settled in civil courts. I didn't hear about the resolution, so either the IA dropped the case, lost, or it hasn't gone to court yet. (He'd have told me if he won the suit.)
Juliet Hotel
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Juliet Hotel
I'm glad to hear this worked but I don't think I would have sent it. As it turns out seems the books were being held for the very reason some here had speculated which is the mechanic was just lazy about filling them out.
Making threats like you did with this message could have gone very badly for you in this situation. You were essentially threatening to do things that would likely annoy him but otherwise not cause him much harm or long term loss of any sort. If he was the sort to be spiteful, it would be really easy for him to say he lost your logs. At that point the resale value of your plane is in the toilet and that message you sent would have turned out to be far more costly for you than it was for him. Like I said, glad you got them back but I probably would have proceeded differently.
Tom-D
Taxi to Parking
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Tom-D
To answer the major question, The FBO's work order you signed has fine print, you best read it.
It may say in so many words that they require the logs and have the right to hold your logs until proper payment is made.
Watch what you sign.
It may say in so many words that they require the logs and have the right to hold your logs until proper payment is made.
Watch what you sign.
Yeah, too bad the answer isn't relevant for this poster.
Tom-D
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Tom-D
Pretty much.. but a warning is just that.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
It's just amazing that anyone ever asks a question here considering how many responses include:
* you're lying
* there must be more to this story (i.e. you're lying)
* you need to read the fine print (even though I have no idea how that shop does business...three states away...but I magically know what's in their fine print)
* it's obvious that you're a dumb ass
* etc.
Did I take a wrong turn and wind up on the red board?
(Oh, and admittedly, I've ridden the azzhole bandwagon on occasion when someone asks a really dumb question, like "is it okay to do a triple overhead break when entering the pattern on a mid-field crosswind and there are 3 other planes already in the pattern?")
* you're lying
* there must be more to this story (i.e. you're lying)
* you need to read the fine print (even though I have no idea how that shop does business...three states away...but I magically know what's in their fine print)
* it's obvious that you're a dumb ass
* etc.
Did I take a wrong turn and wind up on the red board?
(Oh, and admittedly, I've ridden the azzhole bandwagon on occasion when someone asks a really dumb question, like "is it okay to do a triple overhead break when entering the pattern on a mid-field crosswind and there are 3 other planes already in the pattern?")
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It's obvious that you're a dumb ass. You're probably lying too.
Kenny Phillips
Final Approach
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Kenny Phillips
Oh, please. The shop is run by an incompetent; they deserve all the flack get. And I know of one mechanic whom I would not confront, nor would you. I was shocked he wasn't in prison for first-degree meanness.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
And as the OP has probably learned, the airplane and logbooks need to be in his possession, properly completed, when the check goes to the FBO.
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Pilawt
I did too, when we lived in another state. Good shop, good work, and they meant well.
After we moved to Arizona in 2017, I noticed that the earliest volumes (1977-97) of my airplane's airframe logs were missing. Fortunately I had previously scanned them, page-by-page with all attachments, to pdf. Those pdfs are of course backed up six ways from Sunday. I checked with the old shop, but they said they didn't have the original logbooks. We had just moved three times in the space of a year, so I figured they somehow got lost in the shuffle or were buried at the bottom of some packing box in storage.
Yesterday -- YESTERDAY, two and a half years later -- the shop called and said they found my logbooks in a folder belonging to a CAP airplane they worked on that was about to be auctioned off. The logbooks are now on their way to me via UPS.
The sound you hear is a HUGE sigh of relief.
My mechanic here doesn't want the original logs ... I mail him a check, he mails me the sticker for the logbook.
AKBill
En-Route
I must admit "the sticker" is a clean way to make log entries. I have 2 logs, started the 2nd set when bought the Sport in 1996. Most of the entries in the 2nd set are stickers. Reading the 1st set of log books is guess work at times, trying to read chicken scratch hand writing.
Sinistar
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Brad
Man, I'm digging my mechanic more and more. I think he genuinely does not ever want to see my daughter, wife or me hurt under his watch. Bonus: log books completed to perfection, sitting in the back seat of the plane every time
we arrive to pick it up.
To the OP: Start asking lots of pilot+owners for recommendations for mechanics.
Oh yeah...change your own oil That way you go into spending $60 and come out of it spending $60 and you get to start knowing your plane better to.
we arrive to pick it up.
To the OP: Start asking lots of pilot+owners for recommendations for mechanics.
Oh yeah...change your own oil
That way you go into spending $60 and come out of it spending $60 and you get to start knowing your plane better to.
mtaylor
Pre-Flight
Man, I'm digging my mechanic more and more. I think he genuinely does not ever want to see my daughter, wife or me hurt under his watch. Bonus: log books completed to perfection, sitting in the back seat of the plane every time
we arrive to pick it up.
To the OP: Start asking lots of pilot+owners for recommendations for mechanics.
Oh yeah...change your own oil
Can you send him to KSGU?
Sinistar
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Brad
Only 966nm one way, shouldn't be a problem
Seriously...do the oil change yourself next time. Great place to start as an owner.
Juliet Hotel
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Juliet Hotel
2nd this. Not hard to learn, not hard to do.Only 966nm one way, shouldn't be a problem
Seriously...do the oil change yourself next time. Great place to start as an owner.
A story: Many years ago, I was a naive twentysomething with his first plane, a beat up but basically sound 1941 Taylorcraft. Flew it all over the place, and at one point took it to a new shop for the annual. First thing they found was a bad lifter, which didn't surprise me as I'd had trouble with that before. There was a local guy with a huge stock of NOS Continental parts, so I had that covered and got them the parts. Then they told me they found a broken piston skirt, which I suspect they broke while pulling the jug, back to the parts guy for a brand new piston, still in the 1940s cosmoline. Got that squared away, they they found some rust in the tail, not uncommon in an old rag and tube plane parked outside. They didn't want to fix that, told me I'd have to find somebody else. There was some question, I forget the details, whether they had dropped the piston and broken it themselves since it had been running fine; the damage was consistent with the skirt banging the connecting rod after removal.
Since I'd been flying it regularly and the tail had held up to the rough turf at Colts Neck, NJ, I flew the plane home (dumb, I know, but I got home safely).
When I went back for the logbooks the girl in the shop couldn't find them, said I'd have to talk to the mechanic. Asked what I owed for the work they'd already done, they gave me a number which I forget (some hundreds, significant change for me in that time and place), and said, "we didn't finish the job, you can pay it if you want to." When I finally reached the mechanic on the phone, he said, "Oh no, I don't have the logs, we sent them to the FAA since you flew the plane out illegally." No, not illegal, the old annual hadn't expired. I called the FAA and they didn't know anything about it... "Why would the mechanic send us your logbooks?" Naturally, given all that, I didn't pay them.
Bottom line is I never got the logs back (I had the older books), started new logs with numbers figured out from my pilot log and other records, a local A&P friend helped me do the welding, and I found another shop (farther away, back then they were charging $2 per HP for an annual), and flew the plane for several more years before disassembling it for restoration. When I sold the uncompleted project 10 years later, the missing logs weren't an issue, but in a plane like that its condition is more important than the history.
Since I'd been flying it regularly and the tail had held up to the rough turf at Colts Neck, NJ, I flew the plane home (dumb, I know, but I got home safely).
When I went back for the logbooks the girl in the shop couldn't find them, said I'd have to talk to the mechanic. Asked what I owed for the work they'd already done, they gave me a number which I forget (some hundreds, significant change for me in that time and place), and said, "we didn't finish the job, you can pay it if you want to." When I finally reached the mechanic on the phone, he said, "Oh no, I don't have the logs, we sent them to the FAA since you flew the plane out illegally." No, not illegal, the old annual hadn't expired. I called the FAA and they didn't know anything about it... "Why would the mechanic send us your logbooks?" Naturally, given all that, I didn't pay them.
Bottom line is I never got the logs back (I had the older books), started new logs with numbers figured out from my pilot log and other records, a local A&P friend helped me do the welding, and I found another shop (farther away, back then they were charging $2 per HP for an annual), and flew the plane for several more years before disassembling it for restoration. When I sold the uncompleted project 10 years later, the missing logs weren't an issue, but in a plane like that its condition is more important than the history.
danhagan
En-Route
Did mine on my 43 year old Tiger in a little over an hour. Connected the phone to a computer and used it as the camera. Dropped the images 15-20 at a time into a folder and used JPG to PDF free converter.
To the OP: Don't write a check until the log books are in your hand **OR** do as I do and tell them to make a label and put it in your logs yourself at home where they stay.