Getting logbook back

mtaylor

mtaylor

Pre-Flight
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Jul 4, 2018
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31
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Washington, Utah
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Display name:
mtaylor
Three months ago I took my plane to Aviation Services at KSGU. At that time I needed an oil change. While it was at the FBO the weather was bad so I purchased a new propeller and Magnetos. The work was done and paid for two months ago. My problem is that I have not been able to get my logbooks back. I have made over several phone calls and visited the Aviation Services 5 times. I am unable to motivate the owner to give my my logbooks back. Is it legal to fly without having your logbooks in your possession? My annual is due at the end of the month. Can an annual be done without logbooks? Can the FAA help in any way?
 
It’s not illegal, but you need to determine what’s going on.

Have you paid for the services that have been done? Does the owner have a lien against the logbooks for some reason that you’re not aware of?

Can’t think of any other reasons why someone wouldn’t return logbooks.
 
Why won't they give you the logs? Sounds like either they think you owe them money, or it's time to call in some help from someone who can exert some "corrective influence" on the owner. You know, like an attorney.

There is no requirement to have the aircraft logbooks in your possession when you fly. You do, however, need to be able to produce them within a reasonable amount of time if requested by the FAA. And you'll pretty much certainly need the logbooks for the annual.
 
Yes I paid the entire amount 2 months ago when I picked up the plane. Just called to be sure there was nothing owed and the bookkeeper told me there was a zero balance on my account. I was hoping I wouldn't have to hire an attorney but my go see one Monday.
 
The mechanic is probably busy like mine and hates doing paperwork... Go over to his shop and get them... How hard is this? Tell him you will wait while he writes the entries...
Why couldn't you fly without logbooks? Do you keep them in the plane? Mine stay safe at home.
Some airplanes don't have log :(
 
This whole deal sounds dumb... Been there 5 times and you cant get the logs??? Take the damn things!
Tell him you need them and your not leaving without them.
 
They have a keypad lock on the door that leads to the maintenance hanger. The owner just stays behind the door if he doesn't want to talk to me. I did manage to sneak into the maintenance hanger but could not find my logbooks. This really is a joke. I'm a new pilot that just purchased that plane last year. Guess I picked the wrong FBO. Someone suggest I post the phone number 435-674-1000
 
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How do you verify the following and remain in compliance if you don’t get your logs back after maintenance?

91.407 Operation after maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, or alteration.
(a) No person may operate any aircraft that has undergone maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, or alteration unless—

(1) It has been approved for return to service by a person authorized under §43.7 of this chapter; and

(2) The maintenance record entry required by §43.9 or §43.11, as applicable, of this chapter has been made.

If you operate the aircraft and the entries haven’t been made, you are in violation. So in essence and contrary to the advice of others above, it could be considered illegal.
 
Mark Taylor said:
. I am unable to motivate the owner to give my my logbooks back.
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Motivate? Not enough specific info to make a specific reply. Something is missing here. Did you see/review the logbooks before you picked up and flew the aircraft?
 
pigpenracing said:
This whole deal sounds dumb... Been there 5 times and you cant get the logs??? Take the damn things!
Tell him you need them and your not leaving without them.
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Unless you're built like a linebacker, take someone along as a witness. Just a friend coming along for the ride and lunch later, that sort of thing.
 
Do you have any documentation, other than the phone call, that you've paid the bill? If so, not returning the logbooks could be considered theft.

Option #1 - contact the airport manager:
RICHARD STEHMEIER
4508 S. AIRPORT PKWY #1
ST GEORGE, UT 84790
Phone (435) 627-4085

If they are operating on airport grounds, they are subject to what's known as Minimum Standards.

Option #2 - the airport is owned by the City of St George - call the Mayor's office.

Option #3....not a lawyer, but you do know any local cops to make a friendly call along with you?

Option #4 - call the local FSDO and file a complaint about the shop.
 
This makes no sense. What motivation do they have to not give you the logbooks back? Sheer laziness?? I doubt that.
 
Seems extremely odd.

What professional service owner hides behind the door and won’t let you in??
 
I do have the documentation that I have paid the bill. $17,000 is no longer in my account and I have the bank statement. Bookkeeper told me that I have a zero balance on my account. I have notified airport security about the matter. They suggest that maybe the FBO has lost the logbooks. Haven't called the mayor or airport manager yet or the FSDO. Wish it wasn't late Friday. Guess I'll do that first thing Monday morning.
 
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Mark Taylor said:
They suggest that maybe the FBO has lost the logbooks.
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Something still doesn't seem right with this. But if you did not review the logbooks and confirmed there were signed mx entries for the work performed, prior to your flight from there, file an ASRS report this weekend that you may have flown without an approval for return to service--just in case the shop owner wants to report you during this experience.

Then contact the local police and make a report on the logbooks. Depending on the state it can be considered theft. The shop owner has zero authority to hold your property without permission. And the FAA has no jurisdiction in this type of event.

Best of luck, but learn from this.
 
Just go get the books... This isn't hard.
If he does not have the books to give you ask where they are.
He has probably been busy and hasn't had time to log the entries yet.
Why would you have to call the Mayor and airport manager? Sounds like you want to make bad blood over a simple little problem.
Now if he lost the logs that is a whole different story.
Give me the mechanics number. I can call for you.. I'm not scared.
 
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Aviation Services 435-674-1000
Want me to call and ask where your log books are????
 
I am sending the following:
Duane, this has become a joke! I paid my bill two months ago and verified that the bill has been paid with Rachael. It is too late today to do anything so starting tomorrow I plan on doing the following:

Call Richard Stehmeinr and the City and file a complaint. You are on City property.

Call the Salt Lake FSBO and file a complaint.

File a complaint with the Police department and tell them you have stolen my logbooks.

Post my experience on Yelp and Facebook.

I have already posted you phone number online. You may be receiving some calls.

I have already contacted airport security.

It would be far easier to just give me my logbooks back.
Please provide an explanation as to why you will not return my logbooks!
 
Mark,
Why you sending him a message and hiding behind the computer?
Go over and ask him for your logs in person....
Did you **** the guy off? Looks like you are about to.
Did you get into it with him when he was doing the work? I believe something is being left out.
 
Nothing has been left out. I did go over and couldn't get the logbooks. Getting advise from this forum has been a very good idea.
 
pdonahue said:
I am not a lawyer but:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_(law)

Mike Busch says you should never give your logbooks to a shop. You give them copies. They give you the appropriate sign-off on an adhesive label which you take and stick in your logbook which sits in a safe at home.
Click to expand...

Or just have a trustworthy mechanic that you can trust your logs with.... Everyone I know takes the logs to the mechanic when work is done.
maybe Mike Busch has a shady mechanic :)
 
Well the text message worked. Thank you everyone for your input. Heading to the airport now to get the logbooks.
Thanks Again
 
Maintenance logs are so vital. I have used my A&P/IA for 18 years, and trust him implicitly. But... stuff happens. For that reason, when we do maintenance or Annual inspections, I retain the logs. When we are done, he makes the appropriate entries, signs, and I pay him. And, as I said, I trust him.

If I had to have work done away from home, I'd ask for the maintenance log documentation on a sticker, which I could place in the logs when I returned home. I do keep scanned copies of the logs, maintenance manuals, and the parts manual on a CD in the airplane.
 
benyflyguy said:
This makes no sense. What motivation do they have to not give you the logbooks back? Sheer laziness?? I doubt that.
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If they're holding the logs, you have to go back to them for maintenance.

Not like that's going to happen.

Shudder - what if they lost them?
 
Is a scanned copy valid? Will the FAA accept the scanned copy at face value?
 
AKBill said:
Is a scanned copy valid? Will the FAA accept the scanned copy at face value?
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Don’t know why not, if you can demonstrate no missing pages or such. I have my log books scanned, the originals stay in the safe deposit box and the shop has a copy of the CDs. They give me a sticker with the work done, along with the bill. When I have time, I get the books, add the stickers, burn a new set,of CDs. Actually, 3 sets. One for me, one for the shop and the 3rd stays in the safe deposit box with the log books.

Yes, I’m paranoid.
 
Mark Taylor said:
Well the text message worked. Thank you everyone for your input. Heading to the airport now to get the logbooks.
Thanks Again
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Seriously it was that easy?

This has to be one of the strangest series of events I’ve read about in awhile.

Glad you got it resolved.
 
Next time this crap happens go to his shop and ask for your logs. If he says no or hides in the shop then right there in the office pull out your cell phone and call the cops and report them stolen. Case closed.
 
Ryanb said:
Seriously it was that easy?

This has to be one of the strangest series of events I’ve read about in awhile.

Glad you got it resolved.
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Well he didn’t report he has them back physically yet...
 
benyflyguy said:
Well he didn’t report he has them back physically yet...
Click to expand...

Here is the update. First the good news I GOT THE LOGBOOKS.

Now what happen. He was suppose to leave the logbooks outside his door. He didn't leave the books outside. The door to the office was open so I went inside and no one was there. Didn't feel good about the situation so I called the police and notified them and also called airport operations. I called him told him about calling the police and he came outside. He was trying to get me to come inside, I didn't go inside. There was a verbal confrontation. I got the books and jumped into my truck and got the hell out of there.
 
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