Garmin G5 Calibration Pitch Shows Nose High Level Flight

fly4usa said:
We have gone from silly petulant comments to full on insults... You are projecting your ignorance MauleSkinner. THESE TERMS ARE INTERCHANGEABLE and any well trained and experienced instrument pilot know this. These terms have been use for at least 60 years interchangeably and documented, well before my time and still used... interchangeably. Read Advisory Circular faa-h-8083-15.pdf. You embarrassed yourself.

Trolls can't make a point so they start hurling insults and throwing tantrums .... You lost . Bye bye
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fly4usa said:
A G5 can go in a C152 or a Beech King Air... and every brand of standard category utility airplane ever made.... Garmin has ONE installation instructions for the G5, not customized for any make or model. Got it. This is not rocket science or brain surgery.
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Pitch attitude is defined as the angle between the longitudinal axis of the airplane and the horizon. The attitude indicator is designed and intended to show pitch attitude. The definition does not change between a C152 and a King Air nor does the purpose of an attitude indicator change between them.

We have the ability and approval to calibrate the G5 that makes sense for a C152 or Cessna 4O2 twin or King Air. The instructions state adjust the Pitch Cal to compensate for the aerodynamic characteristics of the aircraft.
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No, they do not:

No mention anywhere of adjusting for aerodynamic characteristics.
 
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IF YOU WRITE IN BOLD AND ALL CAPS IT MAKES YOUR OPINIONS TRUER, IS THAT HOW IT WORKS?

OK, I think I'll just go fly and not worry about whether or not my G5 AI reads zero degrees in level flight at every airspeed and all aircraft loadings.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Pretty poor day when you don’t…but if this is your “something“ for today, I apologize. :ohsnap:
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Been a pretty slow day as I had to replace a rebuilt GM hydroboost unit for the 3rd time ...
 
As I have said, I don't even notice this on my Aspen or G-5. How many have even realized that it doesn't line up?????
 
MauleSkinner said:
Anybody reasonably qualified to fly instruments.
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Hmm, so I guess I am not reasonably qualified to fly instruments.

I make changes in pitch from where the pitch is. Not related directly to the horizon line.
 
fly4usa said:
Wow way to go. Kind of troll-ish bradg13, and disrespectful. You don't know how to send a PM?

Really unless you know what you are doing and IT IS YOUR AIRCRAFT, don't mess with it. This could mask serious installation or hardware (AHRS) issues. You do what you want on your personal airplane with a G5 that you fly low IFR in, but you adjust a G5 in a rental or club aircraft without A&P coordination/signoff, violation of FAR's Part 43, FAA-P-8740-15, AFS-8. Regs and STC the G5 was approved are clear, NOT PILOT adjustable. Guessing that does not matter to you. I'm working with my Maintenance, even though I could adjust it. It is called respect, risk management, resource management with professionals. Try it.
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Since this thread is still going, I wanted to provide a quick reminder: you can put the G5 into configuration mode by holding down the knob while powering it up. I know @fly4usa wanted everyone to have that knowledge.
 
bradg33 said:
Since this thread is still going, I wanted to provide a quick reminder: you can put the G5 into configuration mode by holding down the knob while powering it up. I know @fly4usa wanted everyone to have that knowledge.
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No I did not want that. Read the thread. I was clear. I know. I do belive in respecting FAR's and clear channels of communication when a plane is flown by many other pilots (FBO, Club, Partnership).

I do believe in talking to the A&P/AI who maintains it. IT IS NOT CLEAR to me this calibration is legal pilot maintenance. It may be but prove it. I could have done it myself. The information is published.

With a Vac AI there is a pitch adjustment you can twist all day anytime for 80 years. However is it unsafe for pilot to tweek the G5? Probably not. Is it wise or legal. You decide. I had my Club maintenance do the adjustment on plane in question, legal, safe and done.

If you own the plane and only one to fly it, great. Don't care, but where in FAR does it say pilot can do this? Can a pilot owner do basic maintenance? REF 14 CFR 44.3(g). Also see AC 43-12A. There is a finite limit scope of allowed pilot "preventative maintenance". Key words here.

I'm a lifetime EAA member, built 2 Van's Aircraft RV's. I own a RV-7 I built, fly and maintain it. However I ask my A&P and AI friends for help. On my first RV I had engine valve issue. I had an A&P insoect it and make a minor repair ( rope trick).

I am use to working on my EAB plane. EAB stsnds for Experimental Amateur Built. I built it, so as manufacturer I am the repairman or AP and AI for this spacific plane.

I installed and wired my own glass cockpit, 2 axis autopilot, WAAS GPS... ADS-B in/out... My last Standard/Utility Aircraft I owned was a PipervTwin Engine Apache PA23-160 30 yrs ago. It was my twin twin engine time builder. With A&P and AI oversight, I did 90% of the maintenance on the Apache including structural repair. Being a structural engineer at Boeing at the time with sheet metal skills and tools, as a kit plane builder, I repaired sheet metal. Mostly engine cowl and baffles. Although non structuralrepairs are allowed to be pilot performed, did the annual maintenance past FAR 43.3 and AC 43-12A with oversight.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND PILOTS DO ANYTHING TO STANDARD CERTIFIED AIRCRAFT W/O CONCURRENCE WITH A&P / AI, AND UNLESS it is allowed by FAR and you are competent. The competent part is key.

People today are great at social media, but many are useless working with their hands unless it's a keyboard. It is technology and culture. People don't want or need to work with their hands. I take pride in my DIY skills and tool room. I also know my limits both in my skill and legally.

I was working on cars, motorcycles, mechaniandly and electronics (ham radio) since I was a teenager. Built engines and transmissions. So if I approach cautiously adjustment of a G5 in a C152 it is because I am competent, not because I can't enter CAL mode.
 
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MauleSkinner said:
interesting how you read it differently than everhone else, but I’m not surprised that you continue hurling insults and throwing tantrums.
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What insults did I say? I called no one an "idiot" as I was. I pointed out comments, as wrong giving facts, or comments irrelevant to topic, nothing personal.

I pointed to comments about how they "feel sorry for my students" and I will cause "flying into the ground" as ridiculious. I don't need to prove my success as an instructor and record if safety after 38 years and counting.

Get your story straight. Me calling out people for insults is not an insult. A bunch of childish behavior and mob pile-on directed at me is not acceptable. I won't put up with it from anyone including you.

Wagondriver said:
can someone just lock this thread already?
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I asked for that 5 pages ago. I would have closed it after the 4th or 5th post when my question was answered if I coukd (some forums allow OP to close thread). Yet somehow people are triggered at pitch reference as a sacred thing one must accept.no matter how off it is, arguing all sides at the same argument, i.e., sans-facts, illogical and irrelevant to subject at the same time.

I suspect some people are not pilots or low time VFR pilots. The debate is over. Now all they have are personal insults to get attention and responce. Since I did NOT respond with insults, only calling out their comments, they complain about that. Thanks for suggestion. MODERATOR LOCK THREAD PLEASE.
 
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fly4usa said:
Wrong look at AC 00-2
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Oh my goodness I can't believe I'm wading into this pedantry, but I can't resist.

No, you are incorrect.

In the very AC you posted, 00-2, which is an index of publications, it says that AC 67-27C was canceled (in 2001!) and replaced by an FAA Handbook, FAA-H-8083-15. "Handbook" does not equal "Advisory Circular".

In addition, the AC 00.2-14 you posted is way out of date (2003), and in fact was replaced in 2004 by AC 00.2-15, which as far as I can tell was canceled and not replaced, as the FAA went to an online listing of AC's (etc.) instead of an actual publication listing them.

 
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fly4usa said:
What insults did I say? I called no one an "idiot"
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“You are projecting your ignorance” sounds like an insult.
“Trolls can't make a point so they start hurling insults and throwing tantrums” sounds like an insult.
And quite frankly, most of your posts seem to tout your experience and intelligence as being greater than everyone else’s, which also sounds like an insult.
 
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fly4usa said:
I would have closed it after the 4th or 5th post when my question was answered if I coukd (some forums allow OP to close thread). Yet somehow people are triggered at pitch reference as a sacred thing one must accept.no matter how off it is, arguing all sides at the same argument, i.e., sans-facts, illogical and irrelevant to subject at the same time.
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Probably the quickest way to end the thread is for you to stop arguing for your sacred pitch reference that isn’t so sacred.

Just go out and teach your one-off airplane, and those of us who have to correct that training will continue to do so.
 
I have to say that this thread has inspired me to use ChatGPT to massage my posts. Input text plus mystery modifier…
 
fly4usa said:
The debate is over. Now all they have are personal insults to get attention and responce. Since I did NOT respond with insults, only calling out their comments, they complain about that. Thanks for suggestion. MODERATOR LOCK THREAD PLEASE.
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"This thread is closed". "The debate is over". Yet here you still are. The only reason it's still going is because you refuse to let it stop. If you think you're going to have the last word in a debate where most of the participants disagree with you, I question whether you understand how a debate works.
I've discovered if I want a debate I'm in the middle of to stop, the first person that needs to zip it and keep it zipped is ME. The rest generally takes care of itself.
 
fly4usa said:
No I did not want that. Read the thread. I was clear. I know. I do belive in respecting FAR's and clear channels of communication when a plane is flown by many other pilots (FBO, Club, Partnership).

I do believe in talking to the A&P/AI who maintains it. IT IS NOT CLEAR to me this calibration is legal pilot maintenance. It may be but prove it. I could have done it myself. The information is published.

With a Vac AI there is a pitch adjustment you can twist all day anytime for 80 years. However is it unsafe for pilot to tweek the G5? Probably not. Is it wise or legal. You decide. I had my Club maintenance do the adjustment on plane in question, legal, safe and done.

If you own the plane and only one to fly it, great. Don't care, but where in FAR does it say pilot can do this? Can a pilot owner do basic maintenance? REF 14 CFR 44.3(g). Also see AC 43-12A. There is a finite limit scope of allowed pilot "preventative maintenance". Key words here.

I'm a lifetime EAA member, built 2 Van's Aircraft RV's. I own a RV-7 I built, fly and maintain it. However I ask my A&P and AI friends for help. On my first RV I had engine valve issue. I had an A&P insoect it and make a minor repair ( rope trick).

I am use to working on my EAB plane. EAB stsnds for Experimental Amateur Built. I built it, so as manufacturer I am the repairman or AP and AI for this spacific plane.

I installed and wired my own glass cockpit, 2 axis autopilot, WAAS GPS... ADS-B in/out... My last Standard/Utility Aircraft I owned was a PipervTwin Engine Apache PA23-160 30 yrs ago. It was my twin twin engine time builder. With A&P and AI oversight, I did 90% of the maintenance on the Apache including structural repair. Being a structural engineer at Boeing at the time with sheet metal skills and tools, as a kit plane builder, I repaired sheet metal. Mostly engine cowl and baffles. Although non structuralrepairs are allowed to be pilot performed, did the annual maintenance past FAR 43.3 and AC 43-12A with oversight.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND PILOTS DO ANYTHING TO STANDARD CERTIFIED AIRCRAFT W/O CONCURRENCE WITH A&P / AI, AND UNLESS it is allowed by FAR and you are competent. The competent part is key.

People today are great at social media, but many are useless working with their hands unless it's a keyboard. It is technology and culture. People don't want or need to work with their hands. I take pride in my DIY skills and tool room. I also know my limits both in my skill and legally.

I was working on cars, motorcycles, mechaniandly and electronics (ham radio) since I was a teenager. Built engines and transmissions. So if I approach cautiously adjustment of a G5 in a C152 it is because I am competent, not because I can't enter CAL mode.
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I think it's pretty reckless for you to openly suggest that pilots make changes to the settings of their avionics, especially in maintenance mode. That should only be done by an appropriately authorized person, like an A&P or a Repair Station.
 
bradg33 said:
I think it's pretty reckless for you to openly suggest that pilots make changes to the settings of their avionics, especially in maintenance mode. That should only be done by an appropriately authorized person, like an A&P or a Repair Station.
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As someone that was part of the chorus saying that what @fly4usa was trying to do made little sense, he was pretty clear on not suggesting that pilots do anything with the settings on their G5's without A&P involvement. Think he's a bit over the top on his appeals to his own authority, but he's been consistent on the point that both he and anyone else should use their A&P if fiddling with stuff.
 
bradg33 said:
I think it's pretty reckless for you to openly suggest that pilots make changes to the settings of their avionics, especially in maintenance mode. That should only be done by an appropriately authorized person, like an A&P or a Repair Station.
Click to expand...
You are wrong.
1) I clearly STATE in this thread twice pilots do NOT adjust the G5 on their own, especially if a Rental or Club group plane. READ THE THREAD for the Love of God.... The internet is full of video's making this adjustment.

2) The STC (document that allows installation into a standard category airplane) allows adjustment to suit. The instructions to install a G5 are generic for any make model aircraft from a small single, to a large twin like a King Air, not spacific. However a note in calibration instructions clearly gives authorization to make a few degee adjustment. No big deal. AS I SAID I got concurrence with A&P / AI / Garman. I do NOT recommend adjustment by pilots theirselves. Don't put words in my mouth.

3) I called GARMAN who APPROVED. THEY SAID NO PROBLEM.

4) I changed nothing. THE A&P / AI did the work who I communicated with. ALL LEGAL AND SAFE. He is highly experienced and know more than you.

5) 3 degreed or 0 degrees is not sacred putch in level flight.. As many said VSI tells you if you are level. No kidding. TRUE, BUT it is secondary, performance, monitoring indicatior of pitch, with Altimeter and Airspeed. THE Attitude Indicatior (AI) is PRIMARY, directly reads Pitch and Bank. Nothing else shows pitch directly. No AI? AI dead, vacuum or glass? This is PARTIAL PANEL, an URGENT SITUATION IN IMC. The AI is most important (why it is called Primary) and should read properly and be easy to interpret. MOST pilots i have observed in 38 years, if given a pitch Ref adjustment knob (e.g., Vac AI) set Level on Horizon. In Airline transport category that is totally different, and no G5 is approved I know of. If it is then it needed a specific STC for that Air Transport plane.

I have flown 40 Different planes from aerobatic to B767-300ER. Yes you
SCAN / Cross check / Interpret / Control. You set what target pitch and power you want for desired performance, be it Straight and Level, Climb, Descent and combo there of, at different speeds or ROC +/-. You adjust pitch, bank, power as required for desired performance. Trust me.

THIS IS NO BIG DEAL.

It really is not important if its 3 or 0 degree. I find it eaiser for students learning to hand fly in IMC in a C152/C172/Piper eaiser if the Jorizon is level. It is eaiser for me to see if level is on Horizon as well. Me and my student are in actual IMC. My students might have a 70 hrs, fresh privite, hand flying, shooting an approach to Mins, DA / MDA, I want to know exactly what their pitch is WAY BEFORE the VSI or Altimeter says we are too low. (Yes let's not repeat 10th time pitch varies with speed, altitude, Air density, weight....etc.)

Thr prople on this thread say get use to 3 degrees or I'm hurting my students , or going to fly into thr ground or "reckless". Good greif. OK they have to get use to pitch indication in different planes, with different EFIS, calibrated differently, or fly non advanced cockpits. THIS IS WHERE ATTITUDE INSTRUMENT SKILLS COME IN. My students will have skill, be proficient to fly other planes. But they need to start somewhere. The good instrument skills are portable. One interview, Early in my career, at an interview they had me fly B747 -200 simulator. At thst time never flew a big jet (Cessna Citation was my only jet time to that point). I flew a perfect ILS. They said how did yiu do that. I just smiled. I used my basuc instrument skills.

So what the heck are you talking about? I have flown 38 years, CFI-INST-MUTI, ATP CE500, B737, B757, B767 with no accidents, no incidences, no violations, over 14,000 hours, 1000hrs of that dual given in GA, every rating from Pvt to Multi ATP and CFI canadates. All passed 1st time, all. My priority is Safety, Legality and Efficency.

I am not instructing to build hours or for money. I have plenty of both. I do it because I enjoy it and I'm good at it. I want to help young pilots. My question was answered on 1st page about 4th post. The G5 is adjusted, I and my students LOVE it, safe, legal and efficient.

Pretty sure this thread is over unless someone wants to troll me...I don't let slander go. Watch it.
 
fly4usa said:
As many said VSI tells you if you are level. No kidding. TRUE, BUT it is secondary, performance, monitoring indicatior of pitch, with Altimeter and Airspeed. THE Attitude Indicatior (AI) is PRIMARY, directly reads Pitch and Bank. Nothing else shows pitch directly. No AI? AI dead, vacuum or glass? This is PARTIAL PANEL, an URGENT SITUATION IN IMC. The AI is most important (why it is called Primary) and should read properly and be easy to interpret.
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The primary instrument for pitch in straight-and-level flight is the altimeter. Look it up.

fly4usa said:
So what the heck are you talking about? I have flown 38 years, CFI-INST-MUTI, ATP CE500, B737, B757, B767 with no accidents, no incidences, no violations, over 14,000 hours, 1000hrs of that dual given in GA, every rating from Pvt to Multi ATP and CFI canadates. All passed 1st time, all. My priority is Safety, Legality and Efficency.
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So much flight time and you still don't know how primary/supporting works? Flight time is not a measurement of, or replacement for, knowledge.
 
@fly4usa - Note post #147 where I said you didn't advocate DIY changes to G5's. Note that it took one sentence to say that. Note that no capital letters were used except at the beginning of a sentence. Note that I did not indicate my level of experience that was required to say that you never said that.

You consistently cite your experience and discount the experience of those on the board when you have no idea of their experience.

I've been on this board for a long time. I suspect that I'm similar to a lot of others that there are certain people I pay attention to in specific areas. Whether its TERPS and how approaches are designed, IFR procedures when the rules are unclear or subject to interpretation, maintenance issues for certain airframes, what can be done as owner maintenance vs by an A&P, etc. I listen to some and ignore others. Most of the people who I trust the most in their specific areas of expertise have never stated any qualification as part of their explanation of an issue.

You've alleged I'm "a VFR pilot" as a way of discounting the points I have made. Not the case, been IFR rated for 3 years and have a good amount of IFR actual. Having said that, I never present myself as an expert on that as there are several people on this board that regularly answer questions and I learn from the interchange.

I post answers for Hang Gliding, Cycling, Piper Archer's and how to update Garmin SD cards and I suspect the members would agree with some of those. I haven't been in anyones face about my experience there, just provided good answers.

BTW, I went flying today and noted that my G5 reads about 3 degrees up in level flight, my G500 reads 4 degrees up. I did my training, checkride and have been flying in actual for the last 3 years and somehow survived.

Not sure why I wasted the brain cells on this, but there you go. As an aside, not sure how you get slander out of anything anyone has posted.
 
fly4usa said:
You are wrong.
1) I clearly STATE in this thread twice pilots do NOT adjust the G5 on their own, especially if a Rental or Club group plane. READ THE THREAD for the Love of God.... The internet is full of video's making this adjustment.

2) The STC (document that allows installation into a standard category airplane) allows adjustment to suit. The instructions to install a G5 are generic for any make model aircraft from a small single, to a large twin like a King Air, not spacific. However a note in calibration instructions clearly gives authorization to make a few degee adjustment. No big deal. AS I SAID I got concurrence with A&P / AI / Garman. I do NOT recommend adjustment by pilots theirselves. Don't put words in my mouth.

3) I called GARMAN who APPROVED. THEY SAID NO PROBLEM.

4) I changed nothing. THE A&P / AI did the work who I communicated with. ALL LEGAL AND SAFE. He is highly experienced and know more than you.

5) 3 degreed or 0 degrees is not sacred putch in level flight.. As many said VSI tells you if you are level. No kidding. TRUE, BUT it is secondary, performance, monitoring indicatior of pitch, with Altimeter and Airspeed. THE Attitude Indicatior (AI) is PRIMARY, directly reads Pitch and Bank. Nothing else shows pitch directly. No AI? AI dead, vacuum or glass? This is PARTIAL PANEL, an URGENT SITUATION IN IMC. The AI is most important (why it is called Primary) and should read properly and be easy to interpret. MOST pilots i have observed in 38 years, if given a pitch Ref adjustment knob (e.g., Vac AI) set Level on Horizon. In Airline transport category that is totally different, and no G5 is approved I know of. If it is then it needed a specific STC for that Air Transport plane.

I have flown 40 Different planes from aerobatic to B767-300ER. Yes you
SCAN / Cross check / Interpret / Control. You set what target pitch and power you want for desired performance, be it Straight and Level, Climb, Descent and combo there of, at different speeds or ROC +/-. You adjust pitch, bank, power as required for desired performance. Trust me.

THIS IS NO BIG DEAL.

It really is not important if its 3 or 0 degree. I find it eaiser for students learning to hand fly in IMC in a C152/C172/Piper eaiser if the Jorizon is level. It is eaiser for me to see if level is on Horizon as well. Me and my student are in actual IMC. My students might have a 70 hrs, fresh privite, hand flying, shooting an approach to Mins, DA / MDA, I want to know exactly what their pitch is WAY BEFORE the VSI or Altimeter says we are too low. (Yes let's not repeat 10th time pitch varies with speed, altitude, Air density, weight....etc.)

Thr prople on this thread say get use to 3 degrees or I'm hurting my students , or going to fly into thr ground or "reckless". Good greif. OK they have to get use to pitch indication in different planes, with different EFIS, calibrated differently, or fly non advanced cockpits. THIS IS WHERE ATTITUDE INSTRUMENT SKILLS COME IN. My students will have skill, be proficient to fly other planes. But they need to start somewhere. The good instrument skills are portable. One interview, Early in my career, at an interview they had me fly B747 -200 simulator. At thst time never flew a big jet (Cessna Citation was my only jet time to that point). I flew a perfect ILS. They said how did yiu do that. I just smiled. I used my basuc instrument skills.

So what the heck are you talking about? I have flown 38 years, CFI-INST-MUTI, ATP CE500, B737, B757, B767 with no accidents, no incidences, no violations, over 14,000 hours, 1000hrs of that dual given in GA, every rating from Pvt to Multi ATP and CFI canadates. All passed 1st time, all. My priority is Safety, Legality and Efficency.

I am not instructing to build hours or for money. I have plenty of both. I do it because I enjoy it and I'm good at it. I want to help young pilots. My question was answered on 1st page about 4th post. The G5 is adjusted, I and my students LOVE it, safe, legal and efficient.

Pretty sure this thread is over unless someone wants to troll me...I don't let slander go. Watch it.
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I'm confused. So you do favor owners doing their own avionics adjustments? In that case, a couple of thoughts:

1) To get into the setup mode on the G5, hold down the knob while turning it on.
2) To get into the setup mode on a GTN750, hold down the "Home" button while powering on the unit.
 
bradg33 said:
I'm confused. So you do favor owners doing their own avionics adjustments? In that case, a couple of thoughts:

1) To get into the setup mode on the G5, hold down the knob while turning it on.
2) To get into the setup mode on a GTN750, hold down the "Home" button while powering on the unit.
Click to expand...

Very informative, but how do you navigate in setup mode?
How do you get out of setup mode?
Is there a way to revert back to original settings?
 
Ed Haywood said:
I cannot believe I have been missing this thread. Comedy gold! Please, moderators, do NOT lock!

But I do have a question: how would I get into config mode while in flight?
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Turn off master switch, and hold button as you power it back up I suppose.

Not recommended at night or in imc conditions.
 
Mikey52 said:
Turn off master switch, and hold button as you power it back up I suppose.

Not recommended at night or in imc conditions.
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How are you going to know what pitch attitude to fly prior to that? Obviously you’ll need to level off and accelerate to cruise speed at 50 or 100 feet, so that you can set it before you enter the clouds. :rolleyes:
 
Wow. 156 posts (prior to this) because some(one) doesn't like the way their G5 AI works. Meanwhile, the rest of the community of all different experience levels can apparently deal with this with a big...meh...and not manage to kill themselves flying IFR.
 
This was all figured out nicely in WWII. Here is an AI similar to that in a B-17, fitted to a post-war machine (apparently there were lots to be had) flying along in 2023. The apparent pitch up attitude seems to be about 2-3 degrees as evidenced by the AI horizon line against the case horizon line. The moveable airplane is set by the pilot to have zero offset for the level flight performance profile. Drone on through the clouds.

AI and Pitch Adjustment.jpg
 
I bought a new-to-me plane with G500 txi. I was looking for a way to zero the attitude to the horizon as I was always seeing a pitch up attitude (which I realize is the case in real life). My last plane did not show the pitch up attitude (same plane, different PFD). Thanks to this thread, I learned why it should be pitched up and to turn on the flight path marker with synthetic vision to accomplish what I wanted to see (and then get used to this new sight picture). I also learned that my CFI was right... ask 10 pilots the same question and you'll get 10 different answers, and in this case dig through 5 pages of awesomeness. Just wanted to throw out there that we are all part of the same brotherhood (with sisters), and if this were an in-person conversation I'd hope we would all be able to appreciate how lucky we are to be able to fly together.
 
Actually ask 10 pilots, you get 8 opinions, and 6 I don't knows or don't care.
 
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