Tom-D
Taxi to Parking
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Tom-D
yep.. still?I think it's Clyde Cessna
Who's ghost haunts your head at night?
yep.. still?I think it's Clyde Cessna
I'll go with that.I'd wager a beer that you're more likely to get killed by gunshot from a over zealous DHS Rambo encounter on the ramp, than a major structural failure while operating per the POH.
Spot on.. speciality the early Cessna 170/ 172 front spar Carry thru. we see more and more impending failures in this area.Those little bolts are of little concern. What's more important is the condition of the aluminum structure; it corrodes much more easily than the bolts. There are some areas where corrosion starts, and unless the airplane is inspected thoroughly by someone who knows what to expect, it can progress to dangerous levels. The Cessna SIDs mentioned by StewartB are the right idea. For example, there's a laminated joint in the wing front spars that can corrode between the laminations and rot away.
The tail is also something to watch. The tail is often what fails first in a high-G pull-up, anyway.
That said, I don't hear of Cessnas falling out of the air due to inflight structural failure. But that will change as the fleet gets older.
Your Cessna and Piper should be built so stout and inspected so often.When was the last time you heard of major parts falling off of an airplane that was not being flown through a thunderstorm? Every time I see this question I think of the B-52. The newest ones were built in 1962. They fly low level where they get hammered by turbulence. They have wrinkles in the skin that looks down right scary. Ever hear of one falling apart? Me neither.
I sure have heard of B52s coming apart in midair and you can educate yourself simply by googling B52 accident history. I recall one where the whole tail fell off in turbulence. It's important to note that every B52 has been completely gone over several times since inception at the factory including structural updates, engines, on and on. If your currently flying a light aircraft built fifty, sixty years old remember it's not been back to the factory and anything could come unglued and probably has many times but unproven by what little was left of it and what could be determined.When was the last time you heard of major parts falling off of an airplane that was not being flown through a thunderstorm? Every time I see this question I think of the B-52. The newest ones were built in 1962. They fly low level where they get hammered by turbulence. They have wrinkles in the skin that looks down right scary. Ever hear of one falling apart? Me neither.
If your 1940 cub was rebuilt, and it probably was more than once , and if the restorer did it correctly , it could be better than factory new. They are taken down to the frame, checked carefully, wings stripped, spars, checked inspected carefully , on and on. Impossible to say on an old 172, 182' etc. etc. I've owned a cub and a champ plus two t crafts that were all redone in the late 90s.mtheyvwere done correctly by excellent restorers. Several were trophy winners.I am still flying my 1940 J-3 and the wings have not fallen off yet
Parts back in 1940 were not made in China.
Worried about the wings falling off, not so much. I'm more worried about control wires snapping in flight. Mis-rig one and you can snap the wire or saw through other critical items.
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/elevator-trim-wire-snaps-mid-flight.51397/
Brian
Maintenance induced failure doesn't count as a engineering or corrosion failure. Some so called mechanics could fail a steel ball with a rubber hammer.
yep.. still?
Who's ghost haunts your head at night?
[snip] Some so called mechanics could fail a steel ball with a rubber hammer.
I sure have heard of B52s coming apart in midair and you can educate yourself simply by googling B52 accident history. I recall one where the whole tail fell off in turbulence. It's important to note that every B52 has been completely gone over several times since inception at the factory including structural updates, engines, on and on. If your currently flying a light aircraft built fifty, sixty years old remember it's not been back to the factory and anything could come unglued and probably has many times but unproven by what little was left of it and what could be determined.
Don't know if... but the carry through in most high wing strut aircraft are loaded primarily in compression so it would collapse inward.Has the Cessna spar carry-through corrosion resulted in an accident?
Thinking about normal loads applied to it in flight, how would it fail - ie in which direction?
I certainly am not. Simply replying to the fellow who said ....."I've never heard of a b 52 coming apart". They most certainly have, not to mention B47s which were relatively new. On two of the old t crafts I bought ,then rebuilt , frayed cables were found, and an old 150 could easily have some.,You're comparing the life and stress of a B52 to a C150?
I'm no expert on the subject, but my recollection was metal fatigue from years of loading. Like the early model C130 that folded up in flight while doing the same thing.Did those firefighting tanker a/c wreck because of age and deterioration, or because of the demands of their work?
People who haven't seen a Cessna with the little cover strip off to get at the fuel lines or whatever, often don't realize there's very little attaching the wing to the fuselage and you can just look between both and see mostly daylight. Heh.
But the scarier Jesus Bolts are in helicopter rotor heads and blade attachments.
I have read that there has never been an inflight structural failure of a strut-braced Cessna. Not sure if still true.
The previous pilots had bent and cracked the thing with lots of Gs, and somehow had flown it back without noticing.
Not that I know of.Has the Cessna spar carry-through corrosion resulted in an accident?
Thinking about normal loads applied to it in flight, how would it fail - ie in which direction?
The next time you have one of those pins in your hand, try to cut it.65,000 lbs of centrifugal force on Black Hawk blades. Two metal pins are all that's keeping those blades from being let loose.
That C-130 had an unauthorized wing beam repair. I know Greg the previous pilot that had quit a week prior to this accident.I'm no expert on the subject, but my recollection was metal fatigue from years of loading. Like the early model C130 that folded up in flight while doing the same thing.
I've found several Cessna's with corroded cables, specially the elevator trim cables where they round the corner in the Horizontal stabilizer.On two of the old t crafts I bought ,then rebuilt , frayed cables were found, and an old 150 could easily have some.,
Don't know if... but the carry through in most high wing strut aircraft are loaded primarily in compression so it would collapse inward.
The next time you have one of those pins in your hand, try to cut it.
I'd be very surprised if it's that simple. Components like that usually have a failsafe design with multiple failures required for complete failure, usually a solid bolt or pin inside a hollow one, and sometimes more.65,000 lbs of centrifugal force on Black Hawk blades. Two metal pins are all that's keeping those blades from being let loose.
The first one was found during taxing over rough ground, making the wings wag up and down, the pilot noticed the flexing of the wing root vents. disassembly found that the hat section and wing root attachment were nothing but white powder. the replacement & repair is about $2500. Now it is a pretty common inspection during annual.Don't know if... but the carry through in most high wing strut aircraft are loaded primarily in compression so it would collapse inward.
A couple of Skymasters have shed wings as well.Scott Crossfield's 210 was an early, strut braced version. It came apart in a T-storm about 20 miles from where I'm sitting right now.
The primary load on those is bending. Compression on the top edge, tension along the bottom. Whole different animal. Dunno if any have failed or not.OK, how about the spar carry through on the C177 Cardinal?
Don't need to educate myself. My father flew them. But I did do a real quick google and only found one or two a very long time ago.I sure have heard of B52s coming apart in midair and you can educate yourself simply by googling B52 accident history. I recall one where the whole tail fell off in turbulence.
Okay structural updates I'll give you. The engines and on and on don't contribute to the longevity of the structure. Sure it's been gone over several times. It's a war plane flown a lot, in harsh conditions so that's appropriate. Just as the inspection of a C-182 according to the maintenance manual is appropriate for it, and thus far has proven to prevent them from falling apart.It's important to note that every B52 has been completely gone over several times since inception at the factory including structural updates, engines, on and on.
Please cite an accident where it was suspected that a properly maintained, certified airplane flown within it's limits "came unglued".If your currently flying a light aircraft built fifty, sixty years old remember it's not been back to the factory and anything could come unglued and probably has many times but unproven by what little was left of it and what could be determined.
I instituted a 25 landing inspection on E2A tail hook stinger attachment pins, because we found a cracked one. that's a 2.25" pin that is hardened steel. yeah things crack.They actually found cracks in them years ago. The contractor was cutting corners and not heat treating per spec. They obviously don't get their blade pins from them anymore. They're pretty darn stout though. There have been blade failures in the 60 but I know of none that were caused by actual pin failure.
I'd be very surprised if it's that simple. Components like that usually have a failsafe design with multiple failures required for complete failure, usually a solid bolt or pin inside a hollow one, and sometimes more.
I have read that there has never been an inflight structural failure of a strut-braced Cessna. Not sure if still true.