Fix up my plane or rent for instrument rating?

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DenverDave

Filing Flight Plan
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Long story short, should I:

Spend 2-3 AMUs to make my plane /U IFR and do my IR with that.

or

Spend the money renting a plane for at least a big chunk of my IR.

I really don't plan to be going into IMC with this plane. I do want to enhance my cross country and busy airspace skills as well as be a good insurance applicant for when I move up to a more serious plane than my 172.
 
2-3 amu vs how many hours x hourly rental?
How long do you plan to keep the 172?
What do you need to make it IFR legal?

Upgrade will make your 172 more attractive when selling.
 
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The plane needs an IFR pitot/static check, a clock and whatever is keeping both NAVs from working fixed. So base price on parts and labor might be $1000-$1500 but I'm doubling that because every plane project I've done so far has doubled as we found hidden problems.

At that point it would have dual glideslopes but no DME or GPS.

I can rent an IFR trainer type plane for roughly $100/hr more than my marginal cost to operate my 172. So call it 20-30 hours of 172 with a 430W rental for my estimated cost of making my plane barely IFR legal.
 
Make your plane ifr capable. It enhances your safety when flying it, increases the resale, and the IR will be easier to attain with the plane you are already very familiar with.
 
DenverDave said:
The plane needs an IFR pitot/static check, a clock and whatever is keeping both NAVs from working fixed. So base price on parts and labor might be $1000-$1500 but I'm doubling that because every plane project I've done so far has doubled as we found hidden problems.

At that point it would have dual glideslopes but no DME or GPS.

I can rent an IFR trainer type plane for roughly $100/hr more than my marginal cost to operate my 172. So call it 20-30 hours of 172 with a 430W rental for my estimated cost of making my plane barely IFR legal.
Click to expand...

Electric clock from Spruce $130 plus install (mixed reviews)
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/cata...v6L1N32rGGJvy3CnV6eeM4UFwosvINqhoC6bIQAvD_BwE

Transponder/static check $300-450.
I assume you’re in the Front Range area.

Is it worth fixing the radios?

I’d put the estimate more in $4-5K - couple used radios. Do you have working CDI? You only need one radio with glideslope & indicator, the other one is just localizer.

Again, assuming Front Range, cheapest 172 rental around here is $130/hr (which makes no sense because almost everything else at Aspen/Alliance/Western is 150 and up). I'm in awe you fly your 172 for $30-50/hr or so. Wish I could do that in the cherokee, but my fixed costs are $450/month (hangar and savings for annual and insurance).

Now, assume you rent, get the IR, and go back to flying your 172. Time to file IFR...how do you label your 172?
Are you allowed to file IR in VMC but in an airplane that isn’t IFR legal? I don't know...can one of the CFII answer?
 
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murphey said:
Electric clock from Spruce $130 plus install (mixed reviews)
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/cata...v6L1N32rGGJvy3CnV6eeM4UFwosvINqhoC6bIQAvD_BwE

Transponder/static check $300-450.
I assume you’re in the Front Range area.

Is it worth fixing the radios?

I’d put the estimate more in $4-5K - couple used radios. Do you have working CDI? You only need one radio with glideslope & indicator, the other one is just localizer.

Again, assuming Front Range, cheapest 172 rental around here is $130/hr (which makes no sense because almost everything else at Aspen/Alliance/Western is 150 and up). I'm in awe you fly your 172 for $30-50/hr or so. Wish I could do that in the cherokee, but my fixed costs are $450/month (hangar and savings for annual and insurance).

Now, assume you rent, get the IR, and go back to flying your 172. Time to file IFR...how do you label your 172?
Are you allowed to file IR in VMC but in an airplane that isn’t IFR legal? I don't know...can one of the CFII answer?
Click to expand...
Not a Cfii. Dunno if you can file, but you certainly can’t pick up the clearance legally in a non emergency. And even if you could, how would you fly it?
 
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If you have your own plane, and getting the instrument rating are what are you going to be flying IFR in? Seems like a waste of $$ unless you plan on making your plane IFR-able.

Yes, you can file IFR all you want. Flight departments file on behalf of pilots all the time. Actually accepting the clearance and flying under IFR, no.
 
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DenverDave said:
I really don't plan to be going into IMC with this plane. I do want to enhance my cross country and busy airspace skills as well as be a good insurance applicant for when I move up to a more serious plane than my 172.
Click to expand...

You won't be able to fly in much busy airspace nowadays with /U equipage. To be honest, having an IFR rating and not using it means that you really won't have the skills to use it when you need it. Today's IFR system is quite GPS-centric, with GPS approaches being the norm at most non-metro airports. In my opinion, it is much more productive to train in the aircraft you will fly IFR, and have that aircraft equipped the way you are going to use it. At a minimum, that would normally include ADS-B and WAAS-GPS, and optionally an autopilot. A decision to make is how long you anticipate keeping your C-172 before acquiring a new aircraft, and whether or not it is cost effective to upgrade. I suspect it will take more than $2-3K to make it really practical for IFR use. If you will be keeping the aircraft a while, you might consider at least a basic upgrade of the C-172 to ADS-B and GPS. A GNX-375 might be an affordable path to do both at once, and at least some of that investment would be recovered in resale. You might also recover additional cost training in your own aircraft rather than renting a more expensive aircraft to train in for 40+ hours. Upgrading would also enable you to file IFR and more easily stay current in your aircraft. An IFR rating that is not exercised enough to maintain proficiency is likely as not to be a false sense of security. I'm flying an AA-5 and it is perfectly capable of practical IFR with a GNS-430, NGT-9000, and an STEC-20 autopilot. I flew it single-pilot IFR without the autopilot for a decade, but that gets old really fast. Think of the IR as a use-it-or-lose-it skill.
 
murphey said:
2-3 amu vs how many hours x hourly rental?
How long do you plan to keep the 172?
What do you need to make it IFR legal?

Upgrade will make your 172 more attractive when selling.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

This was also the same calculus I used. I decided to upgrade my own aircraft to /G for IR training. Now, my IR will cost about 3k instead of 7k.
Of course, the upgrades FAR outstripped that, but I will get most/all of that back when I upgrade.
 
One benefit to the rating may be insurance costs
 
From the sounds of your post, I think I would sell the 172 and go ahead and buy the airplane you would be happy with now, then get your IR in that airplane. To me, it makes little sense to spend the money to upgrade the 172 when you are not satisfied with it. It would be much easier and more comfortable for you to fly IMC in a capable airplane that you leaned in. I think it would save you money in the long term.
 
If you rent for your IR and you don't upgrade your 172, you're gonna need to keep renting (a lot) to stay proficient.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
 
DenverDave said:
Long story short, should I:

Spend 2-3 AMUs to make my plane /U IFR and do my IR with that.

or

Spend the money renting a plane for at least a big chunk of my IR.

I really don't plan to be going into IMC with this plane. I do want to enhance my cross country and busy airspace skills as well as be a good insurance applicant for when I move up to a more serious plane than my 172.
Click to expand...

When you say you are not going to do IMC in this airplane, are you saying you are looking for a different airplane to fly in IMC? Or are you saying you want the rating but aren't planning on using it? If the latter is true then upgrade your plane (if it's a keeper). If the former is true then buy a better airplane and train in that. Just my humble opinion.
 
5QK said:
One benefit to the rating may be insurance costs
Click to expand...

The cost of training may greatly exceed the insurance savings of the IR for a light single. I think it got me about 5% (about $30-40) per year discount.
 
Here is my two cents as a CFII, learn in a similar plane and equipment as what you intend to actually fly IFR in. If you are thinking of upgrading to a more capable aircraft later to fly IMC, maybe put off the instrument until then? What is the motivation or reason for doing the instrument now if you aren't going to use it? Instrument flying is a perishable skill.
 
murphey said:
Electric clock from Spruce $130 plus install (mixed reviews)
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/cata...v6L1N32rGGJvy3CnV6eeM4UFwosvINqhoC6bIQAvD_BwE

Transponder/static check $300-450.
I assume you’re in the Front Range area.

Is it worth fixing the radios?

I’d put the estimate more in $4-5K - couple used radios. Do you have working CDI? You only need one radio with glideslope & indicator, the other one is just localizer.

Again, assuming Front Range, cheapest 172 rental around here is $130/hr (which makes no sense because almost everything else at Aspen/Alliance/Western is 150 and up). I'm in awe you fly your 172 for $30-50/hr or so. Wish I could do that in the cherokee, but my fixed costs are $450/month (hangar and savings for annual and insurance).

Now, assume you rent, get the IR, and go back to flying your 172. Time to file IFR...how do you label your 172?
Are you allowed to file IR in VMC but in an airplane that isn’t IFR legal? I don't know...can one of the CFII answer?
Click to expand...

Unless you will be in actual or in Bravo or Charlie air space you won’t need to do the pitot static check for training or checkride.
 
chemgeek said:
The cost of training may greatly exceed the insurance savings of the IR for a light single. I think it got me about 5% (about $30-40) per year discount.
Click to expand...
IR is required to rent some aircraft, seems mandatory for Cirri
 
MBDiagMan said:
Unless you will be in actual or in Bravo or Charlie air space you won’t need to do the pitot static check for training or checkride.
Click to expand...
I didn't know any of the shops along the Front Range would do a VFR-only transponder check. Will call around next time I need it.
 
First of all, with no problem at all, I have gotten at least a half dozen VFR only pitot static checks over the years, but I don’t see what that has to do with my statement.

You need it checked to be legal for entry into Bravo or Charlie correct? You need an IFR check before entering IMC correct?
 
If you want to fly your plane when you’re done, fly if now.
 
murphey said:
I'm in awe you fly your 172 for $30-50/hr or so. Wish I could do that in the cherokee, but my fixed costs are $450/month (hangar and savings for annual and insurance).
Click to expand...

He referred to it as the "marginal cost". Which is a fairly accurate number - hangar, insurance, etc. is already paid for, so the direct cost is pretty much just fuel, or maybe includes engine reserve, depending on how you want to calculate it. That hour flight in a rental is going to cost $150, right now. That same hour in a 172 you own is just going to cost $40 in gas, right now.
 
If you're going to have an instrument rating, you're going to pay money to keep you, your plane, and your charts/efb current if you really want to make use of it. A few AMUs to get the plane and yourself rated initially isn't the tough part.
 
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