Five members of Georgia family killed (Piper PA-46 crash)

[hindsight2020]

It also depends on how you represent the conveyance to said spouse/kids/friends. In a lawnmower it's easy to have an all-weather claim falsified/laughed out the building by any pedestrian, but when you start stepping up in moola to private airline cosplayers, that's when people get enough rope length to hang themselves with. I do agree with the prior comment about the airline experience largely desensitizes modern people to the fatality risk of hurling yourself through the sky with convective air masses in and around you.

The economic angle is the inflection point imo. The more stupid money you're capable (and willing) to sink into it, the more pressure there is to seek some validation/ROI out of it. I find that reflex quite rational really. So there's more pressure for the turboprop to "deliver" than the lawnmower. Add in the already imprudent (to me) affair of recreational single pilot IMC airline cosplaying, and yeah you're gonna start stacking up affluent caskets in short order. And we all eat the externalization of that cost, via insurance cost shifting. In fairness, that [externalizing] dynamic is not unique to recreational aviation.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

And what about the medivac pc12 out of Reno?

That was more of a run-of-the-mill weather encounter similar to the OP accident. Those couple PC-12 accidents we were discussing immediately beforehand also included more people than seats aboard the aircraft...

 

[Dave Theisen]

I have no knowledge of the pilot in this accident’s experience level, but having been a mentor pilot for several new PC-12 owner/operators, my experience has been that many of these guys can’t kick you out of the airplane soon enough. It’s not the $1000/day that bugs them since they just spent six mil on an airplane, it’s an ego thing.

 

[MauleSkinner]

It’s not the $1000/day that bugs them since they just spent six mil on an airplane, it’s an ego thing.

An ego thing masquerading as $1000/day that bugs them.

 

[Rockymountain]

my understanding is the PA46 is very easy to overspeed and overstress the wings. They cruise well above Va and are very slick and hard to slow down so if you accidentally wandered into towering cumulus with some significant up/down drafts I can see how it would be easy to get fast and break the wings off.

Most of that true, except the wings are plenty strong, and they slow down really well. Most have speed brakes, and even those that don’t, dropping the gear is like dropping 3 big speed brakes. Just don’t lose control and get into a spiral dive, which is how they usually break. Spiral dive, pull in a mistaken attempt to avoid descending, tighten the spiral, increase the g-load repeat until G-loc or the plane breaks.

 

[hindsight2020]

my experience has been that many of these guys can’t kick you out of the airplane soon enough. It’s not the $1000/day that bugs them since they just spent six mil on an airplane, it’s an ego thing.

Given my own bias, I try to be a bit more charitable on that point; I think of it as just a preference. To wit, I wouldn't have become a pilot if I couldn't physically and legally solo. I've even made - much to my wife's chagrin continue to make, highly concessionary (my euphemism for dumb-arsed) financial choices on account of said penchant for single-pilot preference in working life.

Just like my non-drinking, people are always going to try and read more into it than there really is. It's not that deep; I just never enjoyed the personality impositions of the crew environment. Point being, if I had a single-pilot-approved turbine for recreation, I'd kick you out of it too as soon as the insurance allowed me. I'm not going to be a hyporcrite and accuse these rich guys of having ego flaw, when I exhibit similar preferences as a paid pilot.

Now, your point about training and proficiency absolutely stands, 100%. There is a consequential difference between that preference and demonstrating the level of proficiency required to enjoy that privilege in the first place. That's where that bias can create a legitimate safety blind spot.

 

[Racerx]

my understanding is the PA46 is very easy to overspeed and overstress the wings. They cruise well above Va and are very slick and hard to slow down so if you accidentally wandered into towering cumulus with some significant up/down drafts I can see how it would be easy to get fast and break the wings off.

Holy crap. VA of only 133 kts at max gross.

 

[Rockymountain]

Holy crap. VA of only 133 kts at max gross.

Plane in cruise up high cruises at about 135 indicated, 200 KTAS. Here are some other aircraft as comparison. As a percent of Vne/Vmo, the M350 and the PC12 have the highest buffer.

Aircraft	Vmo/Vne	Va/Vo	%Va/Vmo	E
TBM 930/960	266	158	59
PC12	240	160	67
M600/M700	251	153	61
M350	198	133	67
SR22	200	131	66
EPIC	270	170	63

 

[mryan75]

AC 00-24C recommends a minimum of 20 miles between you and any suspected thunderstorms. I really wish it was a legal requirement and not a recommendation.

I live near the site and on that day, that rule would have made it a no go. And to me it was a no-go day.

 

[mryan75]

1 hour before departure, all the charts indicated this type of activity. There was a convective sigmet that encompassed that area:

AREA SEV TS MOV FROM 27020KT. TOPS TO FL450. HAIL TO 1.5 IN...WIND GUSTS TO 65KT POSS

And that’s exactly what the weather was that day.

 

[3393RP]

And that’s exactly what the weather was that day.

That's not the typical Florida and Texas pop-up forecast. It was certain the line was there.

 

[Hengelo]

Nodding my head. That fits.

I have no knowledge of the pilot in this accident’s experience level, but having been a mentor pilot for several new PC-12 owner/operators, my experience has been that many of these guys can’t kick you out of the airplane soon enough. It’s not the $1000/day that bugs them since they just spent six mil on an airplane, it’s an ego thing.

 

[TCABM]

…Now, your point about training and proficiency absolutely stands, 100%...

System of the Day, EP of the Day. As I ponder CFi/-II work in the future, those concepts are woefully missing in recreational flying and in my opinion contribute greatly to proficiency. Conceptually, it’s something I’d build into a syllabus from day 1, just to create the habit pattern.

 

[MauleSkinner]

System of the Day, EP of the Day. As I ponder CFi/-II work in the future, those concepts are woefully missing in recreational flying and in my opinion contribute greatly to proficiency. Conceptually, it’s something I’d build into a syllabus from day 1, just to create the habit pattern.

Regular study is often poo-pood in favor of memorizing the written test answers and peaking on checkride day, unfortunately. But if you can start students down the road of regular study before they hear about the other, it might stand a chance.

 

[PaulS]

This is a sad situation, obviously. I give t-storms a wide berth, and have learned that they can come out of nowhere, at least in the realm of a flight if you are not paying attention.

I was flying through Virginia, dodging well spaced cells with the help of ATC. I was on an IFR flight plan, but staying out of the clouds. I had deviated around a good sized cell, and finally got back on course, told the controller and all was good, for a bit. I was splitting two about 25 mile diameter cells that had about 30 miles in between them, or, I should say I was on course to split them.

As I was getting closer, the clouds ahead were getting darker and darker. I finally called ATC and told them I wanted to deviate to the east around the cell to my left, (left turn for me) I was still about 20 or more miles away from it. ATC asked me why as there was nothing on my xm radar, and probably nothing his screen. I told him the clouds ahead of me were getting dark and I wanted no part of it. He told me to deviate as necessary and report back on course. As I got about a third of the way around the storm, the area under where I was going to split the cells had a massive, 20 mile diameter water dump. It went from pretty clear vis to zero vis in there, I couldn't see through it. About 5 minutes later, my xm went from clear in that area to red precip. The controller got real busy with the big guys up high looking for deviations.

That storm made a big impression on me. If I can't see, I don't go. Especially at night.

 

[Country Flier]

This is a sad situation, obviously. I give t-storms a wide berth, and have learned that they can come out of nowhere, at least in the realm of a flight if you are not paying attention.

I was flying through Virginia, dodging well spaced cells with the help of ATC. I was on an IFR flight plan, but staying out of the clouds. I had deviated around a good sized cell, and finally got back on course, told the controller and all was good, for a bit. I was splitting two about 25 mile diameter cells that had about 30 miles in between them, or, I should say I was on course to split them.

As I was getting closer, the clouds ahead were getting darker and darker. I finally called ATC and told them I wanted to deviate to the east around the cell to my left, (left turn for me) I was still about 20 or more miles away from it. ATC asked me why as there was nothing on my xm radar, and probably nothing his screen. I told him the clouds ahead of me were getting dark and I wanted no part of it. He told me to deviate as necessary and report back on course. As I got about a third of the way around the storm, the area under where I was going to split the cells had a massive, 20 mile diameter water dump. It went from pretty clear vis to zero vis in there, I couldn't see through it. About 5 minutes later, my xm went from clear in that area to red precip. The controller got real busy with the big guys up high looking for deviations.

That storm made a big impression on me. If I can't see, I don't go. Especially at night.

Good call. When my instrument rating was somewhat new to me, I had a similar situation...except I made the mistake of continuing on. There was clearly a north-south, eastbound-moving front line dead ahead on my flight path, but the nearest rain/storms were 20 miles to the north and also to the south of my east-to-west path (I made a drawing, below, to the best of my recollection what my ADS-B was showing). I thought I was far enough away from the precip that I decided to fly through the front, on instruments, as the clouds (cumulous) went from 2500 feet to 15,000 feet or so...BIG MISTAKE!!! How I kept it upright I have no idea. It was 10 minutes of rodeo time, that felt like 4 hours! I'll never forget the sound the prop made as I entered the violent updrafts and downdrafts...reminded me of the sound of when I was a kid and I'd blow real hard into a fan. What's the saying? Oh yeah, "Good decisions come from experience. Experience comes from bad decisions."