Fatal Crash at First Flight, 9/28

skyking3286 said:
Concerning the out of trim full power go around: Never do anything fast in an airplane, as in rushing things. In normal situations, where most crashes happen. Gentle works.
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Generally agree, but on a go-around after a bounce you do have to be pretty prompt in order to catch the plane before it comes down on the nosewheel. (Not related to this incident, obviously.)
 
Flying Keys said:
Sorry, that doesn’t make much sense. They stalled while in the turn, somehow managed to complete the turn and fly straight on final, but stayed in the stall and did not recover for 700-800 feet down and a mile forward?

I don’t know where the idea of the base to final stall crept into the conversation (maybe based on incomplete flightaware data?), but the more complete ADS-B data doesn’t support that, nor does the NTSB saying the wreckage was located in the trees to the left of the runway.

Here’s a pic that might help illustrate, the data pulled straight from ADS-B Exchange. Note there are two finals. The signal is lost for both right about 100’ and the threshold (which is typical LOS blockage for the receivers that forward the data), so it doesn’t illustrate the events over or along the runway for either approach (this we can’t see the actual path of the crash). Both approaches were fairly steep, but pretty straight.

View attachment 133986

I added a blue arrow representing the general reported wind direction and an orange circle representing the trees adjacent to the left side of the runway into which the NTSB said the airplane crashed.

Note: the AWOS is located near the segmented circle on the west-southwest side of the runway, however a wind as reported from 170 true would be along the shown azimuth to the runway 21 threshold. There is a large clearing along that azimuth during short final, but the hill and the monument, then the stand of trees that begin complementary to that azimuth and the threshold could complicate an already gusty wind situation as you’re crossing the threshold.
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I have limited confidence in ADS-B data for micro flight path, especially near the ground.

But I agree, if the wreckage was located in the area you indicate with the orange circle, then it was not a base-to-final stall.

Whatever the case, I think "poor stick and rudder skills" are probably the root cause.
 
Ed Haywood said:
I have limited confidence in ADS-B data for micro flight path, especially near the ground.
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I understand that. There are ways to overcome some of that, verification as it were. Some sites offer more in the way of that than others. Altitude can always be a little sketchy, but you can eliminate outliers, look for trends and averages more for verification and a broad overview of what was going on. Either way, in pretty much every case that I’ve felt confident in estimating the flight path using ADS-B data, the NTSB has done the same in their preliminary report. They’re not necessarily drawing the same conclusions, just “here’s what the ADS-B data show,” so it seems they’re finding it useable/reliable enough to at least get started.
 
SOMETHING likely got them in “startle response” mode. At that point, all bets are off.

What happens after that isn’t the topic of discussion. It’s what caused that startle response.

Having the correct startle response is more of a historical question, and a result of training years ago.
 
The Cirrus SR has mild stall characteristics, but I would say if you get slow on it and drop a wing, many have said it spins violently, which is why the only spin recovery option per the POH is to pull CAPS. In the Cirrus forums though, there's a post from 2006 of a guy that spun an SR2x out of Sedona airport but managed to recover it without CAPS (did the P.A.R.E. response).
 
midlifeflyer said:
where have you seen that? Do you have another source? All I’ve seen in both FlightAware and ADS-B Exchange were two landing attempts, one which appears to result in a go around and a second which ends on final (presumably with the crash).
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The observations I cited in post #63 were based on data from ADS-B Exchange “history” option. This feature provides a data block with time stamp for each ADS-B point as the selected aircraft moves along the flight path. The 40 second figure is simply the final time stamp subtracted from the time stamp as the aircraft completes the turn to final.
 
AquaLand said:
The observations I cited in post #63 were based on data from ADS-B Exchange “history” option. This feature provides a data block with time stamp for each ADS-B point as the selected aircraft moves along the flight path. The 40 second figure is simply the final time stamp subtracted from the time stamp as the aircraft completes the turn to final.
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Yes, I know it does. I posted a photo of part of it But I saw what I described - two landing attempts with the crash on the second one at 21:18:29Z.

We may be describing the same thing. That last entry is after the base to final turn. Which makes sense - I’ve seen reports that the Cirrus hit a tree.
 
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