FAA Research Study Kicking Off

T

TCABM

Final Approach
PoA Supporter
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
6,787
Display Name
Display name:
3G
Got this from one of my partners. Appears CAMI wants some data and is willing to pay for it.

I’m way to young for the target audience, but I figure there’s folks here who might qualify.

412abf006fbabad7adcb5783b1c3eedc.jpg
 
There was another discussion on this. As an "older pilot" I see it that the FAA is trying to come up with validation of a cognitive test. Then they can "force" it on pilots during their medical renewal. Failing the test would result in grounding pilots. I myself have given a cognitive test before taking Veterans on Honor Flight trips. Now I find the Docs giving me the same test during my annual "Medicare Checkup". I hate that and joke with the nurses about it, "I used to give that test!"

Having delt with aging pilots, and other "elders" in our community, I can understand the concern. More than once I had to approach someone and ask, do you really think you should be driving? Flying as PIC? It's always tough when you have to be the "bad guy" for taking the car keys away from your mother-in-law. Same with older pilots.
 
Seems like somebody (Brazil, maybe) recently increased airline retirement age to 70…I could see this being in preparation for something like that.
 
Unsubstantiated musing: BasicMed reopened flying for people who are getting older and had/have non-cognitive medical issues which removed them from the cockpit in the past - often (I speculate) at an age before they started showing significant cognitive decline. Now that medical conditions are less likely to remove people from flying, I wonder if cognitive impairment is on the rise in the (older) flying community as those pilots who would have been grounded continue to age.

Zero data to back this up. Just an interesting hypothesis. But if so, the FAA getting ahead of this seems like a reasonable thing to do in the interest of public safety.
 
I figure when I can't remember the gate code to the airport, the code to unlock the hangar, or which of the airplanes inside is mine, it's time to give it up.

On a more serious note, about eight months ago a really good friend, in his 80's returned from his winter vacation home and came to the airport and wanted to fly his plane. He hadn't flown it for six months so I decided to sit in the plane with him and see how well he recalled the airplane, checklists, and procedures. I was saddened to see that he was struggling with remembering some very basic stuff, so much so that I very delicately talked him into not flying that day so we could look the plane over more thoroughly as it had been sitting.

Later that evening I had a conversation with one of his family members who confirmed that my friend was very ill but was denying it & suggested I might have saved his life. Sadly my good friend west about a month ago ...
 
When my Mom developed alzheimers those hide-your-own-easter-egg jokes lost all humor

Forgetting the code isn’t a major indicator, forgetting what the various things are used for is
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Unsubstantiated musing: BasicMed reopened flying for people who are getting older and had/have non-cognitive medical issues which removed them from the cockpit in the past - often (I speculate) at an age before they started showing significant cognitive decline. Now that medical conditions are less likely to remove people from flying, I wonder if cognitive impairment is on the rise in the (older) flying community as those pilots who would have been grounded continue to age.

Zero data to back this up. Just an interesting hypothesis. But if so, the FAA getting ahead of this seems like a reasonable thing to do in the interest of public safety.
Click to expand...
I wondered the same, but discounted the idea because the study specifically excludes that group:
1736511509500.png​
 
Huh, was hoping it was an online study, but no: OKC, DFW, SAT, or anywhere in the state of Arkansas.
 
I look at this as likely the FAA starting to build a baseline. What the baseline could be used for is still unknown. e.g. pass the test and keep the class one past 65 and fly for the airlines. Or fail the test and lose medical....

Tim
 
You are going to see a bunch of FAA studies coming out. This is a result of the recent FAA Reauthorization bill, it called for many studies on various topics. It just takes the Administration 6+ months to read the bill and decide how they want to comply.
 
I have instructions out to family and friends that if I start to show legit symptoms of age-related cognitive decline, to have The Talk and ground me. Obviously can’t tell how I’d actually react, but the idea is that like a briefing, there are events that trigger execution of a procedure instead of figuring out what to do.
 
Once my girlfriend was given one (probably because the Doc knew who I was and wondered about her sanity) and was asked to draw a clock showing ten after three. She wrote 3:10 inside a box.

Doc said “HaHa, we’ll skip the rest of the test”.
 
I took the cogscreen at osh a couple years ago. She said they were trying to develop a test that aeromed could use to determine if a pilot applying for a medical with some sort of disqualifying issue has the mental acuity to be issued. At that time they were establishing the baseline. Not sure if this is filling in a subset of data they were missing or trying to verify their results. I saw flyers at osh last year looking for participants of certain age/medical classes, so I suspect the former.

I wouldn't say it was fun, but it was interesting. I learned that I can remember a much longer string of numbers accurately than I would've guessed. Kind of funny; I used to write down those 6 digit verification codes that certain websites give you. Now I know i can reliably remember up to 8, so I don't bother :biggrin:

X3 Skier said:
Once my girlfriend was given one (probably because the Doc knew who I was and wondered about her sanity) and was asked to draw a clock showing ten after three. She wrote 3:10 inside a box.

Doc said “HaHa, we’ll skip the rest of the test”.
Click to expand...
Dating those younger women... way to go, Rick :rofl:
 
Last edited:
Llewtrah381 said:
Unsubstantiated musing: BasicMed reopened flying for people who are getting older and had/have non-cognitive medical issues which removed them from the cockpit in the past - often (I speculate) at an age before they started showing significant cognitive decline. Now that medical conditions are less likely to remove people from flying, I wonder if cognitive impairment is on the rise in the (older) flying community as those pilots who would have been grounded continue to age.

Zero data to back this up. Just an interesting hypothesis. But if so, the FAA getting ahead of this seems like a reasonable thing to do in the interest of public safety.
Click to expand...


If that’s their interest, wouldn’t they include Basic Med pilots in the study? This is limited to 3rd class medical folks only.
 
Half Fast said:
If that’s their interest, wouldn’t they include Basic Med pilots in the study? This is limited to 3rd class medical folks only.
Click to expand...
True. I still do wonder if that’s a potential issue for BasicMed and even Sport Pilot (thanks, Capt GT).

Looking back over my Boomer lifetime, when Medicare rolled out, 65 was about the life expectancy primarily because of heart disease and other chronic illnesses which killed people off - often abruptly - before they had a chance to age into an increased risk of dementia, Parkinson’s, and even normal age-related memory changes. Now that we have effective treatments for a number of those chronic conditions, the health risks to safe flying have shifted. I think studies such as this are not only warranted but the responsible thing to be doing.

Establishing some kind of reproducible, verifiable measures for impairment should be of interest to all of us. Similar to blood alcohol levels: how many drinkers well over the legal limit insist they’re not impaired? And some level of alcohol on board does not unduly impair most people’s driving, so banning drinking and driving outright isn’t necessary.

But as with the responsible parents of argumentative teenagers, there will always be those who see any action by an authority figure as demonic. But we still need grownups.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
True. I still do wonder if that’s a potential issue for BasicMed and even Sport Pilot (thanks, Capt GT).
Click to expand...

Personal opinion, without anything to back it up:

FAA can't do much of anything about Basic Med, but they can make changes to the Class 3. I suspect that if the study shows meaningful cognitive decline in older pilots, they will mandate cog testing for older pilots seeking a Class 3. If that happens, it will lead to insurance companies requiring class 3 for older pilots and not accepting Basic Med at all.

It seems to me they'd have a more meaningful study if they tested a broad spectrum of pilots, then looked for groups that showed decline. Instead they're targeting a single demographic at the outset and that makes me a bit suspicious of their motives. Notice, too, that by only seeking pilots with Class 3 medicals, they're excluding revenue pilots and ducking pushback from airlines and other aviation businesses.
 
Half Fast said:
Personal opinion, without anything to back it up:

FAA can't do much of anything about Basic Med, but they can make changes to the Class 3. I suspect that if the study shows meaningful cognitive decline in older pilots, they will mandate cog testing for older pilots seeking a Class 3. If that happens, it will lead to insurance companies requiring class 3 for older pilots and not accepting Basic Med at all.

It seems to me they'd have a more meaningful study if they tested a broad spectrum of pilots, then looked for groups that showed decline. Instead they're targeting a single demographic at the outset and that makes me a bit suspicious of their motives. Notice, too, that by only seeking pilots with Class 3 medicals, they're excluding revenue pilots and ducking pushback from airlines and other aviation businesses.
Click to expand...
Please read post 20. They started this nearly three years ago and were testing pilots of all ages with all classes of medicals. I suspect this is just the last subset they need. All the 60+ YO recreational pilots probably went to basicmed.
 
Jim K said:
I took the cogscreen at osh a couple years ago. She said they were trying to develop a test that aeromed could use to determine if a pilot applying for a medical with some sort of disqualifying issue has the mental acuity to be issued. At that time they were establishing the baseline. Not sure if this is filling in a subset of data they were missing or trying to verify their results. I saw flyers at osh last year looking for participants of certain age/medical classes, so I suspect the former.

I wouldn't say it was fun, but it was interesting. I learned that I can remember a much longer string of numbers accurately than I would've guessed. Kind of funny; I used to write down those 6 digit verification codes that certain websites give you. Now I know i can reliably remember up to 8, so I don't bother :biggrin:
Click to expand...

As I live in OKC, I have had a few friends do this study. As you mention, it does appear they're narrowing the range on data they need. For the past several months it was ages 50-64, now it's just 60-64. The people who take it agree with you that it was interesting, though not "fun" exactly. But an interesting way to make a few hundred dollars.

I'm not sure why they limit it to pilots operating under third class privileges, but that rules me out. (Of course, I wouldn't be eligible for the $300 anyway as an FAA employee.)

I have in the past been able to participate in a few other CAMI research studies. One was in an FTD testing out different configurations of AOA indicators and verbal indications, which involved flying a ton of approaches at various speeds. Interesting although admittedly after a couple hours my performance definitely degraded. Another was simply applying and holding rudder pressure on an instrumented test rig. I believe in that one they were looking at changing the rudder force standards for multiengine aircraft with engine failures - setting Vmc and such.
 
RussR said:
As I live in OKC, I have had a few friends do this study. As you mention, it does appear they're narrowing the range on data they need. For the past several months it was ages 50-64, now it's just 60-64. The people who take it agree with you that it was interesting, though not "fun" exactly. But an interesting way to make a few hundred dollars.

I'm not sure why they limit it to pilots operating under third class privileges, but that rules me out. (Of course, I wouldn't be eligible for the $300 anyway as an FAA employee.)

I have in the past been able to participate in a few other CAMI research studies. One was in an FTD testing out different configurations of AOA indicators and verbal indications, which involved flying a ton of approaches at various speeds. Interesting although admittedly after a couple hours my performance definitely degraded. Another was simply applying and holding rudder pressure on an instrumented test rig. I believe in that one they were looking at changing the rudder force standards for multiengine aircraft with engine failures - setting Vmc and such.
Click to expand...
When I took it, they were looking for people with any class of medical. Last summer the flyers had different age ranges for class 1,2, or 3.
 
I think the cogscreen for things like ADHD track have to be better than the bottom 15% of pilots. I’d imagine they are establishing tags specific data for those kinds of uses. Kinda like TRT has a “normal” range of 350 give or take, but when you look at what that’s composed of, it includes guys 15-80+ usually and rarely age bracketed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top