For Sale F-104

Good luck finding an A&P for that thing. I am sure the FAA might have something to say about just flying it around on the weekends too!
 
Joe_B1 said:
Good luck finding an A&P for that thing. I am sure the FAA might have something to say about just flying it around on the weekends too!
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I knew a guy flying Nachangs who said you just fax a form to the FAA. That was 20 years ago, so it's now probably send off an Email. Wait, it's the FAA. Fax a form.
 
10 years ago I happened on a privately owned, flyable MIG 15 on the ramp at Stuart, NY (KSWF).
 
Curtsy in Rockford IL can help with the check out and Heritage at KFEP, my airport, can do the conditional. Not as big a problem as you might think, even with the hot seat. BUT; money, that's an entirely different question!
 
Dana said:
there's no way they're gonna catch you...
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Ya think? Fox 2....
q5QmX1uhve4f4bBnQMHxO5DfvaCRFWc2l1xBQImmYmW1E7-SbfxqdbQ9YB3cprcqaPjR3TXrFpuoKBjvcjw__DvGJ7nMejBzcYEE8IJ7ntNVSNIPoqDvFf6xlb2OX5uebA
 
Dana said:
Who cares? If you bust the bravo and they try to intercept, there's no way they're gonna catch you...
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If you try to outrun them they'll catch you in about 8000 lb. At least a flameout gives you a little IR suppression :cool:

Bell206 said:
Ya think? Fox 2....
q5QmX1uhve4f4bBnQMHxO5DfvaCRFWc2l1xBQImmYmW1E7-SbfxqdbQ9YB3cprcqaPjR3TXrFpuoKBjvcjw__DvGJ7nMejBzcYEE8IJ7ntNVSNIPoqDvFf6xlb2OX5uebA
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Fox three ;)

Nauga,
spiked
 
You guys calling the yearly inspection a “conditional”, please, for the love of god, stop it. It’s not a conditional inspection, it’s a Condition Inspection.
 
nauga said:
If you try to outrun them they'll catch you in about 8000 lb. At least a flameout gives you a little IR suppression :cool:

Fox three ;)

Nauga,
spiked
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Dave, Have you ever had the opportunity to fly a -104? I'm sure you know people who have. I bet it is a heck of a ride.
 
Who is going to check you out and sign you off for this beast!!
 
The Wikipedia article on the F-104 is a good read.

Apparently it doesn't turn very well.

"In reference to the F-104's low-speed turn performance, a humorous colloquialism was coined by a pilot in the skies over Edwards Air Force Base: "Banking with intent to turn.""

And, depending on the operator, had a very high accident rate. The Germans lost 292 of 916 aircraft and 116 pilots from 1961 to 1989.

It had "blown" flaps to lower landing speeds.

The wing's leading edges were sharp, .016".

"Landings were also performed at high speed: the downwind leg of the circuit was typically flown at approximately 210 knots (390 km/h; 240 mph) with flaps in landing configuration, with the long, flat final approach flown at around 175 knots (324 km/h; 201 mph) and touchdown at 155 to 160 knots (287 to 296 km/h; 178 to 184 mph)."
 
topgun260 said:
The Wikipedia article on the F-104 is a good read.

Apparently it doesn't turn very well.

"In reference to the F-104's low-speed turn performance, a humorous colloquialism was coined by a pilot in the skies over Edwards Air Force Base: "Banking with intent to turn.""

And, depending on the operator, had a very high accident rate. The Germans lost 292 of 916 aircraft and 116 pilots from 1961 to 1989.

It had "blown" flaps to lower landing speeds.

The wing's leading edges were sharp, .016".

"Landings were also performed at high speed: the downwind leg of the circuit was typically flown at approximately 210 knots (390 km/h; 240 mph) with flaps in landing configuration, with the long, flat final approach flown at around 175 knots (324 km/h; 201 mph) and touchdown at 155 to 160 knots (287 to 296 km/h; 178 to 184 mph)."
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But as we learned in this thread:
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/extremely-minor-aviation-pet-peeves.134611/
he better get in line behind the other traffic in the pattern or someone is going to get their nose out of joint.
 
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kyleb said:
Dave, Have you ever had the opportunity to fly a -104? I'm sure you know people who have. I bet it is a heck of a ride.
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I had a CO that got to fly one as part of his USAF Test Pilot School training (He was an Navy A-6 on an exchange tour). He said at 300 kts you were pretty much out of airspeed to do anything but get configured for landing. Like the A-6/EA-6B you put the gear/flaps down at 250 KTS and landing (at Edwards) was nice because of the long runway as you were starting your flair at 200 Kts. There was actual torque from the engine and you could trim in aileron trim to deal with it.

He also flew the CF-101 Voodoo that he described as the best passenger plane he'd ever been in as he felt the stick did very little to allow him to think he was actually flying it. :D

When I did his instrument check paperwork he'd had time in 80+ military aircraft.
 
Friend of mine flew the NF-104 used as part of the X-15 program. IIRC, he got up to over 100000’.

Cheers
 
Erich Hartmann had nothing but good things to say about the 104. ;)

In the book “Roger Ball!” John “Hawk” Monroe got some flights in the 104 as an exchanged pilot. Basically described it just like it’s famous moniker “missile with a man in it.” Great climb rate and speed but turned like semi truck.
 
X3 Skier said:
Friend of mine flew the NF-104 used as part of the X-15 program. IIRC, he got up to over 100000’.

Cheers
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Heck, they got a plane Jane F-104 to 103K feet without the rocket, back when they were in record setting mode in 1959. Pretty amazing.
 
Pugs said:
rec.aviation.military and so many other usenet newsgroups were an incredible resource back in the day.
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Yeah, I was on a lot of the rec.motorcycles groups as well as the soc. groups. Interesting days them...
 
topgun260 said:

And, depending on the operator, had a very high accident rate. The Germans lost 292 of 916 aircraft and 116 pilots from 1961 to 1989.
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That wasn't the planes fault. A case of the 'the wrong tool for the job' brought on by procurement corruption that made the then minister of defense and his connected friends very wealthy. Combine that with a training system that was utterly unprepared for the new plane with its unique quirks and capabilities and things didn't go well. 'What's the fastest way to get a Starfighter? Buy 20 hectares of land and wait.'
 
I believe the owner of this F-104 is Mark Sherman. Had the honor to meet him briefly about 20 years ago. He was a ex-Navy pilot (think he flew A-7s), but he said he was always fascinated by the F-104. Hats off to him for buying and operating this aircraft for so long.
 
''Based on today's fuel prices, it costs roughly just over $4,000 to filler her up, and that's without drop tanks. That entire fuel quantity can be burned by its J79 engine at full power in a matter of minutes.''

So, can just anyone get in line for air to air refueling.??
 
Zeldman said:
''Based on today's fuel prices, it costs roughly just over $4,000 to filler her up, and that's without drop tanks. That entire fuel quantity can be burned by its J79 engine at full power in a matter of minutes.''

So, can just anyone get in line for air to air refueling.??
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The Air Force should treat it like a Tesla. If you buy it, they'll fuel you up for free for life (or whatever Tesla is doing now).
 
There were a pair of privately owned Starfighters flying during military demos at Sun&Fun in FL back in 1995, so it was obviously possible to get one into Experimental Exhibition back then.
 
Ventucky Red said:
There are a 115 German pilots that curse the day the laid eyes on this plane.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/tragic-reason-why-germany-hated-its-f-104-starfighters-68742
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The -104 was unforgiving. It, and maybe the Mig-21, may have been the most difficult to fly aircraft fielded in large numbers. But the Germans were unequipped to field such a difficult aircraft from a training and culture perspective. Effectively, their AF went from F-84's to F-104's. That's a big step up and the German AF wasn't ready for it. Over time, the Germans (and other AF's as well) learned to utilize the airplane relatively safely.
 
My old man was a USAF fighter pilot, long career (F-100's, F-111's, F-4's, F-16's), but never flew the F-104. But several of his buddies did. Us kids were always asking questions, anxious for stories. One of my dad's friends was over once, and we were asking him about flying them.

I remember him saying "It's one of the only honest airplanes I've ever flown. 'What do you mean, honest?' we asked. His answer: "If you f&ck up, it'll kill you.". High key for flameout approaches was something like 18,000'.

This same guy was in an F-104 squadron that deployed to Vietnam and, in part, did air to ground work. He had some stories about that too.
 
It's one of the few US aircraft to fly Mig-CAP in significant numbers during a war, and never shoot down an aircraft during that war. We had the luxury of being able to retire it.
 
A post above mentions the owner… I brushed up against him 11 years ago and the less said about it the better. FWIW.
 
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Pugs said:
He also flew the CF-101 Voodoo that he described as the best passenger plane he'd ever been in as he felt the stick did very little to allow him to think he was actually flying it. :D
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One of the old guy civilian sim instructors in Meridian when I went through, had done a USAF exchange in Voodoos many years ago, apparently. His sentiments were similar. I believe he said it was the worst airplane ever built, or something to that effect.
 
rv7charlie said:
There were a pair of privately owned Starfighters flying during military demos at Sun&Fun in FL back in 1995, so it was obviously possible to get one into Experimental Exhibition back then.
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I saw them fly at an airshow in Springfield, MA around 2000.

As now and to get checked out:

https://flyastarfighter.com/

It is NOT good that they don't list a price. They used to, and I seem recall $15,000 for a 45 minute flight.
 
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