Executive orders & MOSAIC

[rwellner98]

I'd speculate that the vast majority of "company's"/supervisors/managers/owners have determined no such thing.
Maybe all of them...but there's bound to be one or two out there somewhere that actually has done some proper analysis
Instead these sorts of things are driven by speculation, opinion, assumptions, paradigms...

Totally correct. Further, all of the numbers I've seen, pro or con, have been in the 10% or so range. There is a vanishingly small amount of office work that can be done remotely and measure with that level of fidelity. If there were an objective and meaningful difference, it would be obvious, rather than the topic of endless debate.

I can say that my personal experience is that I'm more productive for a variety of reasons and the my team performs pretty much how my teams in the olden days performed. We have people that are stronger or weaker than one another, but as a whole, I can't think of any way to measure that would give me 10% precision team wide. I will say that being fully remote has made it much easier to collaborate beyond our location because we are already doing it every day within our own team. Where does that get captured in an analysis? I don't know.

 

[hindsight2020]

one thing EAB allowances could expand on (since we're wishing for free here) is eliminate 51% rule, and inspection authority for non-builders (I've proposed LSRM equivalent training certificate as the olive branch, to appease the self-righteous rivet-punching gatekeepers).

Most people gravitating to EAB are non-builders, good bad or indifferent. If they truly believe in growing the ranks, this needs to be addressed. Spam cans will never be liberated to EAB equivalent mx rules, so the MOSAIC faithful are spinning their wheels (I deprogrammed from that primary non-commercial wishful nonsense after watching the 2013 part 23 rewrite effort/2015 Congress-scoffing 2 year late implementation).

As to what MOSAIC attempts to impace, the new construction, by the time that "Euro-performance factory LSAs" are affordable to former upper middle class wage earners (sub 100K), we'll have Euro GA landscape (user fees, little to no recreational use airspace in B/C et al) and the question will be moot anyways. My guess is Euro LSA specs will continue to be non-starters due to the price point, and we'll have to continue to rely on homebrew EAB to keep any semblance of affordability in the recreational space, fleeting as it may be.

 

[German guy]

This doesn't make any sense to me. Stepping away from my desk for five minutes to see my kid out the door makes me a less effective employee? Not a chance.

I support IT systems; I'm not mining coal.

I was working for a large corporation and am now seeing the same in our own company: Maybe 1 out of 10 are actually getting more work done at home, 3 out of 10 about the same, the rest is just taking advantage of their new freedoms:
Kids at home the entire day, friends coming over, personal appointments, tv on, etc..

Of course, 10 out of 10 are claiming that whey are working more than ever before. 80 hours / week seems to be the standard.

That WFH makes collaboration much more difficult and that it negatively impacts team cohesion and the sense of belonging are other negative side effect.

 

[Half Fast]

Totally correct. Further, all of the numbers I've seen, pro or con, have been in the 10% or so range. There is a vanishingly small amount of office work that can be done remotely and measure with that level of fidelity. If there were an objective and meaningful difference, it would be obvious, rather than the topic of endless debate.

For work that is somewhat rote and quantifiable (# of customer issues handled, # of orders processed, time to complete payroll processing, time to generate cost reports, # of IT support cases addressed, etc.) I suspect that is true.

It was my experience that, for creative and innovative work, the quality of the work declined, though that's difficult to measure. It became less creative, and the time to find solutions to previously unsolved problems increased.

Throughout my career, the most challenging engineering problems I worked on were solved by a few of us brainstorming on a napkin in the company cafeteria, or standing around a white board arguing with each other, or helping each other troubleshoot in the lab. During COVID, every colleague I spoke with, from junior engineers up to engineering VPs, said the same thing. Work was getting done remotely, everyone was putting in the time and effort, but it didn't have the same spark of genius as when we were together and interacting FTF. The synergy was lacking.

That WFH makes collaboration much more difficult and that it negatively impacts team cohesion and the sense of belonging are other negative side effect.

It takes time and interaction for a team to really gel and start functioning efficiently. People have to learn each other's communication style, hot buttons, strengths, weaknesses, motivators, etc. Even with a FTF team it takes months for this all to really click, and the best managers recognize when this is working and actively strive to make it happen. It's much more difficult to bring this about with people who only know each other over a computer screen.

Imagine trying to build a football team with all the players training and practicing on their own at home.

 

[wanttaja]

You cannot fly an EAB in many countries.

Basic Med is only recognized in three countries.

I don't disagree with the need to get these fixed, but: Don't know how deeply the EAA should be involved. I want them to push to get MOSAIC approved, not getting Upper Franistan to agree to let Pietenpols land there.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[wanttaja]

Is there a way to look up the actual number of SP vs PPL?

I'm nowhere near an expert on the FAA pilot databases, but from what I can see, there are about 5600 Sport Pilots vs. 123,000 with Privates.

I also see that there are 43,000 pilots listed as having Basic Med. Remember, Basic Med wouldn't exist without Sport Pilot showing that relaxed medical tracking doesn't significantly affect the accident rate.

Remember, to, many folks (like myself) have a private but fly using Sport Pilot privileges. I see that quite often in the NTSB accident reports; a case will list the pilot as having both a Private and Sport Pilot rating.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[wanttaja]

one thing EAB allowances could expand on (since we're wishing for free here) is eliminate 51% rule, and inspection authority for non-builders (I've proposed LSRM equivalent training certificate as the olive branch, to appease the self-righteous rivet-punching gatekeepers).

I've always like the Canadian Owner Maintenance category, which gives owners of production airplanes considerably more freedom.

I've owned my own (purchased) Fly Baby for almost thirty years, and flew another for ~seven years before that. I'm good on the airframe, but am quite happy to have an A&P do the inspection every year, especially on the engine.

But, as you say, if I took the Light Sport Repairman Certificate course, I'd probably end up with enough confidence.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[rwellner98]

Throughout my career, the most challenging engineering problems I worked on were solved by a few of us brainstorming on a napkin in the company cafeteria, or standing around a white board arguing with each other, or helping each other troubleshoot in the lab. During COVID, every colleague I spoke with, from junior engineers up to engineering VPs, said the same thing. Work was getting done remotely, everyone was putting in the time and effort, but it didn't have the same spark of genius as when we were together and interacting FTF. The synergy was lacking.

I'm sure there is some truth to that. We solve that problem by getting together in person as needed. I just got back from Utah on such a trip.

It takes time and interaction for a team to really gel and start functioning efficiently. People have to learn each other's communication style, hot buttons, strengths, weaknesses, motivators, etc. Even with a FTF team it takes months for this all to really click, and the best managers recognize when this is working and actively strive to make it happen. It's much more difficult to bring this about with people who only know each other over a computer screen.

My experience has been that remote versus in person hasn't made much difference at all, much less making it "much more difficult". I don't have a good theory to account for the differences in our experience on this topic.

Imagine trying to build a football team with all the players training and practicing on their own at home.

I spent way too long thinking about this analogy!

At the end, I think I decided that sports analogies are mostly better for factory jobs than creative or office jobs. There is a structural requirement for the players to be on the same field to do the job. Just like there is a structural requirement for someone assembling a car to be at the factory.

Now, that said, if it doesn't immediately fall apart as an analogy, it at least gets a lot weaker pretty quickly just by scratching the surface.

The entire team mostly doesn't practice together. The offensive and defensive lines practice, and are coached, independently. There are running backs coaches and players. Tight ends. Wide receivers. Quarter backs. Etc. Game film is reviewed independently of the rest of the team.

There is negative value in requiring them to occupy the same place for most activities, so they don't. They mostly work independently until there is value in working together.

Tons of them also have independent fitness trainers that they work with independently of their position coaches. The fitness routine and cadence for a quarterback is very, very different from that of a defensive lineman. So they do that work independently.

 

[DaleB]

When I was working from home I made real effort to NOT work more than I do in the office. Sometimes I failed, just because I knew that there was something to be done, the computer is right there, so why not start a little early and get it done?
I've learned a long time ago the hard way when I used to travel for work that it's very easy to overwork yourself....and "the company" rarely appreciates it when you do.

Worse, they come to expect it. The last few years I worked, I found myself more frequently having to gently explain to people that I didn't respond to their after (or well before) working hours email, because although I have on occasion worked 24 hours or more straight through, it's not the norm.

Before COVID, I could work from home occasionally and did so when I was focused on some individual task, like running simulations or analyzing circuits. During COVID, though, I was 100% WFH and for the most part I didn't think I was as effective. Much of the engineering work I was involved in was very collaborative, and collaboration never seems to work as well on zoom calls as it does when a few people are together scribbling ideas on a white board or napkin, and able to walk down to the lab or factory floor to look at a piece of hardware.

Exactly true. In one position, we were a geographically dispersed team - we had engineers in Huntsville, Des Moines, somewhere in California, a couple in Charlotte, and me here in Omaha. We worked with similar teams also scattered across multiple locations. I noticed that we could often get more done in one day together in one place, with a wall full of whiteboards, than we could in a week or two of batting Visio diagrams and emails back and forth. That was great, as long as the company was willing to cover travel occasionally.

WFH also isn't very good at team building. It can work when the people already know one another and have previously interacted FTF for a while, but bringing on new team members and getting them assimilated is much tougher remotely. I hired several people without meeting them FTF, and that just really sucked.

Agreed.

Yeah, good point. A personal nightmare of mine would be sitting in my office but still having all meetings on Zoom/Teams because all attendees are not in the same building

That's when I quit traveling to our Charlotte office. I'd go there, find an empty cube, and dial into meetings. Or I'd find the conference room that was booked for the meeting, and be the only one in it. The last couple of times I was there the place was a ghost town. I swear I saw a tumbleweed blowing down an aisle between cubicles.

All of those items are tax write offs. One reason I rented my office building (when I ran an ISP) was I could take the write off for the rent and almost every other associated expense.

You ran an ISP? I did, too. Back in the dialup days. You have my deepest condolences. I'm feeling much better now.

 

[Half Fast]

I don't have a good theory to account for the differences in our experience on this topic.

I can guess at some reasons, but without each of us knowing the specifics of our jobs and teams it would be merely that: guesswork. Maybe we could meet in person and figure it out?

I will note that I'm not the only one who has had this experience. See post #129 by @DaleB .

I spent way too long thinking about this analogy!

Yes, you most certainly did!

 

[Half Fast]

I noticed that we could often get more done in one day together in one place, with a wall full of whiteboards, than we could in a week or two of batting Visio diagrams and emails back and forth.

Exactly! I can't count the number of times that work was dragging with some subcontractor, taking forever swapping emails and having zoom calls, when I finally hopped on a plane, sat down in a room with their folks, and hashed things out in a couple of hours. A few geeks staring at the same CAD screen and playing, "Here, gimme the mouse for a second" can accomplish wonders that don't seem to happen remotely.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

You're right. My company pays folks in HCOL cities more, but knocks them down to the LCOL pay bands if they go remote. What we should do is just knock everyone down. After all, their choosing to live in a HCOL area doesn't make their work more valuable to the company.

I hope you're aware that this pathway ends with off-shoring. Why bother even paying LCOL wages in the US?

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

I hope you're aware that this pathway ends with off-shoring. Why bother even paying LCOL wages in the US?

Oh....they've been doing that for years. When I worked for DeWalt we had folks in India doing engineering and manufacturing.....nothing new.

 

[rwellner98]

I hope you're aware that this pathway ends with off-shoring. Why bother even paying LCOL wages in the US?

This pathway *started* with offshoring. Been going on for decades. What's changed is that remote work levels the playing field some because it's no longer just the employer that has national or international flexibility. Now the employees can select from employers all over the country as well without it costing them tens of thousands of dollars to move.

 

[MauleSkinner]

My experience has been that remote versus in person hasn't made much difference at all, much less making it "much more difficult". I don't have a good theory to account for the differences in our experience on this topic.

I can guess at some reasons, but without each of us knowing the specifics of our jobs and teams it would be merely that: guesswork.

I suspect that company culture can have as much effect on how well it works as the individual team members, and it’s not specific to working from home. We have issues that we can’t get resolved in large part because the people involved are in other locations, and they can ignore us as much as they want. In order to get some things done we have to actively engage a “referee” from still another location, and some things are simply not going to get fixed because the email trail has become so long that people can’t make sense of it anymore.

It’s probably a lot like internet anonymity.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Our company is a full on experiment in remote vs office work. The operational side of the company reports to me. The growth side of the company reports to my co-owner. When COVID hit, my side of the company went remote and stayed that way. The other side is in the office 4 days a week.

I don't think you can say one approach is better than the other. It's more a matter of balancing tradeoffs for each situation.

Remote work gives a huge advantage in finding and keeping talent, because it opens up the candidate population from a short radius to the entire country. You also have to pay them less, because people love remote work, especially mothers.

Remote work makes it harder to work together on team projects, especially where creativity and brainstorming are needed. It also makes some people less inclined to work hard and be productive. Others work harder because they are less distracted.

We have learned the key is to be deliberate about collaboration. We have a well defined schedule of video meetings every week where various company functions coordinate issues and synchronize actions. We also schedule meetings on single topics for more in-depth discussion. In general, I find online meetings tend to be more focused and have less dead space than in person meetings.

 

[Brad Z]

Yup....the gummint is very dysfunctional. I work with several hundred folks at my office location....but none of them are on my project teams. There is no reason to be face-to-face. My project folks are scattered across the country at other offices. So....I can go into the office to do my zoom calls and have coffee with others. But, it doesn't affect the work to be done. The days of fusion cells and small cell teams are not a part of the gummint organization.....like it was in other places in industry I've worked years ago. And I suspect industry is forever changed also.....

Six and I are in the same boat. Perhaps we’ll be assigned cubicles across from each other so we can annoy each other with loud zoom calls all day.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Six and I are in the same boat. Perhaps we’ll be assigned cubicles across from each other so we can annoy each other with loud zoom calls all day.

Get ready.....to dodge the spit balls. I was thinking of all the crap I'll have to haul back and forth...not having a dedicated space/cube/office. All we have are a dozen or so common cubes for who ever shows up. And if all 200 show it's gonna be interesting. I'd probably go to the cafeteria.

 

[pfarber]

I don't disagree with the need to get these fixed, but: Don't know how deeply the EAA should be involved. I want them to push to get MOSAIC approved, not getting Upper Franistan to agree to let Pietenpols land there.

Ron Wanttaja

Basic Med acceptance is a huge issue. Its the same (basically) medical as a truck driver physical and CDL is accepted over the boarder. Having done both Class III and Basic Med other than having a AME sign it off they are basically the same thing.

Of all the useless stuff the EAA is involved in, this is one that I could kinda support. Way more important would be allowing E/AB flights across the boarder.

 

[Brad W]

It was my experience that, for creative and innovative work, the quality of the work declined, though that's difficult to measure. It became less creative, and the time to find solutions to previously unsolved problems increased.

I suppose that falls into the area of "depends on the job". Certainly, machine operators can't work from home. Warehouse folks that pick and pack boxes can't. Anyone that needs to inspect a product or inspect equipment can't. As you described some engineering jobs or other jobs that rely on collaboration can be less effective...

 

[pfarber]

I spent way too long thinking about this analogy!

At the end, I think I decided that sports analogies are mostly better for factory jobs than creative or office jobs. There is a structural requirement for the players to be on the same field to do the job. Just like there is a structural requirement for someone assembling a car to be at the factory.

Now, that said, if it doesn't immediately fall apart as an analogy, it at least gets a lot weaker pretty quickly just by scratching the surface.

The entire team mostly doesn't practice together. The offensive and defensive lines practice, and are coached, independently. There are running backs coaches and players. Tight ends. Wide receivers. Quarter backs. Etc. Game film is reviewed independently of the rest of the team.

There is negative value in requiring them to occupy the same place for most activities, so they don't. They mostly work independently until there is value in working together.

Tons of them also have independent fitness trainers that they work with independently of their position coaches. The fitness routine and cadence for a quarterback is very, very different from that of a defensive lineman. So they do that work independently.

Even for non physical tasks I find it hard to believe that say a group of programmers would all have the exact same environment on their 'WFH' system even though they were required to. Got a compile error? Send it to 'Bob' who can't replicate it because environment was changed by an app he added to do 'x' while at home. $PATH is NOT to be trifled with. You like BASH? So what, CSH is the required shell and no, we will not be forking because 'Nancy' doens't like CSH. Darn it my blood pressure is already starting to go up just thinking about it.

 

[Baked Potato]

Even for non physical tasks I find it hard to believe that say a group of programmers would all have the exact same environment on their 'WFH' system even though they were required to. Got a compile error? Send it to 'Bob' who can't replicate it because environment was changed by an app he added to do 'x' while at home. $PATH is NOT to be trifled with. You like BASH? So what, CSH is the required shell and no, we will not be forking because 'Nancy' doens't like CSH. Darn it my blood pressure is already starting to go up just thinking about it.

I think perhaps you are confusing 'work from home' with 'use of personal devices'.