Ducking for helo blades?

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
Where is the rotorcraft forum?

So, I'd say 90% of people scootch their head and neck down when they enter/exit a helo.
Is this necessary? On flat ground. R-22 or -44 or -66 or similar.
Maybe this only applies for certain models.
I can't see how the 4" change is going to make any difference.
I say either you are getting your head fully lopped off, or you are well clear so no point in ducking.

Probably way more important to avoid the rear (the tail) in most helos.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Is this necessary? On flat ground. R-22 or -44 or -66 or similar.
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Yes and no. But its still a good habit to develop as is only approach the helicopter at a 45 deg angle to the nose AND in full view of the pilot. I still duck or watch the blade tips when I walk under a rotor regardless of helicopter type.
Let'sgoflying! said:
I can't see how the 4" change is going to make any difference.
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Measured from where? Most helicopters have some sort of main rotor droop stop system that limits the blade flap based on RPM. If you're comparing a static 4" of droop, in general, when the aircraft is running with the droop stops out, that blade flap can sometimes be measured in feet plus blade flex.
Let'sgoflying! said:
Probably way more important to avoid the rear (the tail) in most helos
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Yes but still mind the MR rotor especially if on an incline. Been known for people to duck and walk up hill into the MR blades.
 
Exiting the back of a CH-53 there is a BIG arrow directing the troops to "TURN LEFT" - away from that giant tail rotor on the ramp-right, aircraft-left, side. I think it's about 9 or 10 feet off the ground, but if the nose gear is off the ground. . .
 
Really depends on the helicopter. I’ve watched my med crew exit a thousand times. Almost all of them tilt their head down. One paramedic I used to fly with was a short dude and he’d crotch down. Lol! No way the blades could strike him 4 ft off the deck.

Now, if the cyclic is centered and at idle, there’s probably 7 ft of clearance off the nose in my aircraft. But let’s just say I’m not careful and I slap the cyclic forward. That thing could easily flex downward to maybe 5 ft. It’s their head, so if they want to keep it, maybe a good idea to duck when exiting. Personally I don’t, but then again, I go to the 3 o’clock and not the 12 o’clock. ;)
 
Bell206 said:
Except in that one it was the pilot who got the haircut. He started the aircraft then got out to unplug the GPU. Unfortunately several witnesses were able to confirm things.
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Technically he was the mechanic.
 
The forward rotor blades on the Chinook can dip as low as 4 feet, but that's at lower RPMs like when they are coasting down. At ground idle or flight idle, they are pretty high off the ground, but we still brief people never to approach from the front. The rear rotor is 18 feet off the ground so no crouching is required.

A few years ago, we had a guy take an H-6 blade to the flight helmet. Can't remember what the conditions were, but he lived, and the helmet is still on display in the Aviation Life Equipment Shop as a reminder...
 
I almost decapatated a French soldier once during a resupply. We were on a the edge of a mountain, maybe 8,000 ft up when he took it upon himself to come running up to assist in offloading supplies. My copilot yelled “watch this guy!” I pulled back on the cyclic just enough to clear his head but the aircraft slid back on its wheels with the brakes on. So far that it snagged the right side crew chiefs ICS cord and pulled it from his helmet. Once resupply was done, the crew chief laid on the ground, plugged in and said “Sir, you’re gonna have to bring it to a hover so I can get my ICS cord free from the tire.” Good times. :)
 
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Salty said:
Technically he was the mechanic.
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Interesting, as I recall Disi and another pilot were prepping for a trip and had a dead battery. They jumped the aircraft and Disi got out to unplug and move the cart. Then aircraft moved hitting Disi. The guy inside said he didnt touch anything. There was a lawsuit but dont know the outcome. Outside of the jumpstart no maintenance involved.
 
Guy I went thru flight school with took a blade to the head in an Apache. Was taxiing in from a mission when they had some sort of severe imbalance. Hard to believe but the blade came thru the canopy and struck him in the head in the back seat. Remains in a wheel chair with a severe TBI to this day.
 
Bell206 said:
Interesting, as I recall Disi and another pilot were prepping for a trip and had a dead battery. They jumped the aircraft and Disi got out to unplug and move the cart. Then aircraft moved hitting Disi. The guy inside said he didnt touch anything. There was a lawsuit but dont know the outcome. Outside of the jumpstart no maintenance involved.
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Ok, not the story I heard at the airport the day after, but it could have been bs I suppose.
 
Salty said:
Ok, not the story I heard at the airport the day after, but it could have been bs I suppose.
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As I recall the media was pushing the maintenance angle. The story I got came from the mx side and they were not involved. Bad deal all around from what I was told.
 
Velocity173 said:
Guy I went thru flight school with took a blade to the head in an Apache. Was taxiing in from a mission when they had some sort of severe imbalance. Hard to believe but the blade came thru the canopy and struck him in the head in the back seat. Remains in a wheel chair with a severe TBI to this day.
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Full forward cyclic in an Apache on the ground can take out the canopy…that’s why force trim is always required to be on…normally a front seat and not a back seat problem. That’s horrible and yes backseat normally no issue. In general as a maintenance officer and Test Pilot for many years I never ducked as long as I had eye contact with the guy on the controls…but in essence it was about control and trust, more of a no crying in baseball maneuver than anything based in self preservation.
 
He didn’t duck (2:52 if you don’t want to watch the whole thing)

 
Warlock said:
Full forward cyclic in an Apache on the ground can take out the canopy…that’s why force trim is always required to be on…normally a front seat and not a back seat problem. That’s horrible and yes backseat normally no issue. In general as a maintenance officer and Test Pilot for many years I never ducked as long as I had eye contact with the guy on the controls…but in essence it was about control and trust, more of a no crying in baseball maneuver than anything based in self preservation.
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He actually might have been sitting up front. I heard he was flying and the PC so I just assumed he was in the back. Not sure what the blade issue was. One report was a hard landing and it flexed down but I heard another report that happened during taxi.
 
Also, in a Chinook, you need to walk straight back a few yards when exiting from the ramp.

Those 5,000 horsepower heat pipes will warm you right up if you get too close...
 
Or just fly a helicopter with a rigid rotor and short stubby blades. I'm looking at you EC-145. Unless they're entering/exiting up a steep slope, people couldn't hit the rotor blades if they tried. :)
 
Folks would laugh at me when I dragged cans for refueling as my knees might have met my chin.

Mastering the “Human Rotor Brake “ on Bell 47’s was of no interest to me!
 
Low Level Flyer said:
Or just fly a helicopter with a rigid rotor and short stubby blades. I'm looking at you EC-145. Unless they're entering/exiting up a steep slope, people couldn't hit the rotor blades if they tried. :)
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FYI: even with a rigid rotor its still not a 100% guarantee the blades won't flap low especially during start-up and shutdown with winds or an errant control movement. Best to respect them all the same regardless of design.;)
 
There are way more fatalities from people walking into airplane propellers. Years ago for a medical meeting I looked into some 200+ propeller injuries from NTSB records. Almost 2/3rd of the fatalities were people simply walking into airplane propellers while the engine was running. Helicopter blade injuries were a small fraction of the total. I don't recall the exact number but suspect it was around 1% to 2% of the total.
 
This thread has been VERY informative!
 
dbahn said:
There are way more fatalities from people walking into airplane propellers.
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FYI: if you adjust those raw numbers to reflect the actual numbers of airplanes vs rotorcraft the numbers of fatalities/injuries equal out between them with tailrotor incidents exceeding prop incident in some locales. There' have been millions of dollars spent on ways to prevent these incidents since the 70s however even with the advent of high visibility paint schemes, extensive safety briefs, etc. it still happens every year. Unfortunately, on a global scale where helicopters are operated in remote areas and villages, the blade/person incidents are still very high especially with tailrotors. You'll find in those areas a conscientious pilot will purposely park his helicopter with the tailrotor hanging over a ledge or ditch whenever possible to prevent someone running into it. Even back in the day pilots performing hot pax loading ops in the GOM would park the TR over the heliport fence to prevent any missteps and these guys are around helicopters on a weekly basis.
 
Bell206 said:
FYI: if you adjust those raw numbers to reflect the actual numbers of airplanes vs rotorcraft the numbers of fatalities/injuries equal out between them with tailrotor incidents exceeding prop incident in some locales.
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Yeah, I don't know if anyone has ever crunched those numbers, but the common factor is that those accidents occur when the only purpose of the victim being there is to get from point A to point B. The main rotor is so obvious and there's a natural tendency to duck even if it isn't really a risk so I presume that a few people run into the tail rotor because they're concentrating on the main rotor. In the case of airplanes the risk should be obvious - but isn't obvious enough to some people.

The accounts of injuries are pretty gruesome in almost every case.
 
From the Irony Department:

An acquaintance of mine was a high-time Army helicopter pilot who went on to get a fixed-wing transition. Never got a full description of how it happened, but he got his head laid open by a T-42 (Beech Baron) propeller. Left him with a disability.
 
I remember my Dad telling a story of a lineman who walked into a prop at Andrews AFB back in the 60s. Think it was a C118. He was working base ops and another lineman walked in basically in shock and white as a ghost. He looked out the window and could see the carnage and called for an ambulance. Guy obviously died.
 
dbahn said:
so I presume that a few people run into the tail rotor because they're concentrating on the main rotor. In the case of airplanes the risk should be obvious - but isn't obvious enough to some people.
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You'll find the majority of studies show its not the lack of the obvious that cause most prop/tailrotor contact incidents but simply the prop/blades are not "seen" by the individual. On the helicopter side, the lack of visual cues became so evident due to past incidents it became a certification requirement in the late 60s that each tail rotor had to be marked so its disc could be seen in the daylight. However, on the airplane side there has never been an equivalent rule in Part 23/25 or even Part 35 for the same requirement. While the numbers of incidents have been reduced by over 50% in the past 40 years its one of those issues that can never seem to be brought to zero regardless of what the industry attempts to mitigate it. Unfortunately a similar issue of "unseen danger" has also become more evident with the newer turbofan engines except those can "grab" the unsuspecting person and pull them in before they know it.
 
dbahn said:
There are way more fatalities from people walking into airplane propellers. Years ago for a medical meeting I looked into some 200+ propeller injuries from NTSB records. Almost 2/3rd of the fatalities were people simply walking into airplane propellers while the engine was running. Helicopter blade injuries were a small fraction of the total. I don't recall the exact number but suspect it was around 1% to 2% of the total.
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Langley AFB, in the mid-80's: We'd jury-tigged the crew entrance door (C130E) because of an unsafe indication. We figured it was the switch, and the mechanical lock looked fine. Anyway, we "secured" it with some 5,000 lb tie-down straps and resolved not to use the door until we got home.
Dropping a part at Langley, engines running, and met by two civilians in a pick-up truck. I went out the ramp-and-door with the part, turned, saw them at the crew entrance door. And one of them saw me. . .and started to step to me, and directly into the turning prop - the dusk, rpm, lighting, and angle made it nearly invisible. I signaled him to stop, fist up - he didn't understand, so I started waving him off - he took a short step and, realizing I was about to get a blood, brains, and bone shower, I turned away quickly. After a few seconds, with no impact of human tissue and other parts, I turned back around - he was stepping back to the truck and his buddy was walking around to wing to meet me.

Langley was mostly fighters back then, F15s if I recall. These guys might not have been around props much, or at maybe not very often.
 
IK04 said:
Also, in a Chinook, you need to walk straight back a few yards when exiting from the ramp.

Those 5,000 horsepower heat pipes will warm you right up if you get too close...
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That's the old FE trick to stay warm while in the FARP during winter!
 
One of the weirdest incidents I found involved a twin turbo on the ramp with engines running and the prop fully feathered. A dispatcher tried to deliver an envelope to the pilot walking between the engine and the pilot's window but was hit by the flat propeller blade and died instantly, but the plane was also nearly totaled in the process. :eek:
 
Flymy47 said:
That's the old FE trick to stay warm while in the FARP during winter!
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We used to do that with the APU. Stand in it til it feels like your back is on fire..or pass out from CO poisoning. :D
 
IK04 said:
Ever take a shower with the EAPS fans after it rained? ;)
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I have not! The 101st got EAPS as I was out the door to go to REGT, who never had them. I have gotten the P/C Link boot shower standing next to the cockpit when the pilot pulled thrust. He remembered to close his cockpit window, so I'm pretty sure I was the intended target. Well played, left seat... Well played.
 
IK04 said:
Also, in a Chinook, you need to walk straight back a few yards when exiting from the ramp.

Those 5,000 horsepower heat pipes will warm you right up if you get too close...
Click to expand...

I remember walking up the ramp at 0200 AM and looking up at the exhaust. It was glowing red hot. Always wondered if those things had any IR suppression.
 
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