all the planes at my flight school have fire extinguishers. the place where i'm renting from to build time do not have fire extinguishers in them
Depends on the system. At the DOJ data center, when the green lights started flashing, you had to get out of the space or get to the rescue packs (small Scott SCBAs) in 45 seconds. That particular halon system would NOT leave breathable atmosphere when it went off.
I was told to get out of the room before the doors locked (automatically). If you cannot get out in time, then lie down on the floor and don't panic because all the oxygen will be displaced. Someone will be there to help when you wake up. That was a few decades ago. I hope they have improved the technology.
Exactly. In the Navy, we have inadvertently discharged 1301 in spaces with people inside and no one died. What I do not know is if there have been any cases of 1301 use where there was an actual fire and personnel still in the space, which is why there is some debate as to how dangerous the byproducts of the Halon/fire reaction really are.The persons instructing you were misinformed. Halon 1301 systems did not displace enough oxygen to cause any breathing or health problems in personnel exposed to a discharge. This is also true of modern "clean agent" replacements for Halon 1301.
Water doesn't displace air in most firefighting, it is used to cool the fire down to below the temperature required to burn. Remember there's four things you have to have for a fire: heat, oxygen, fuel, and a battalion chief. Take away any one and you can't have a fire.OK, not the way water displaces air,
Again, these stories are inaccurate and promulgated by people that do not have a clear understanding of how gaseous suppression systems work.
In thirty years of experience building large data centers I have never seen a Halon system that would exceed the NOAEL when discharged. It isn't even legal to install a system that would kill someone.
From a fire extinguishing standpoint, it's not necessary. The concentration of gaseous agent needed to interrupt the combustion process is significantly less than the concentration that would cause observable interference with respiration, much less harm someone.
Why would an engineer specify a system which uses more gas than necessary? The volume of the protected space is carefully calculated and the gas required to provide the required concentration level as a percentage of that volume is provided. No more and no less...these calculations are done in accordance with NFPA code guidance.
I think Ron was referring to water displacing air in a sense of flooding a space on fire like you would an ammunition magazine.Water doesn't displace air in most firefighting, it is used to cool the fire down to below the temperature required to burn.
The intent of the escape breathing pack may have been to protect from the byproduct of halon extinguishing the fire, not the Halon itself.oh. you were there when we got briefed about what to do? they spent the money for scba for nothing?
The thought of spraying chemicals into the air I'm breathing and peering through gives me the willies. Fire is bad, but I wonder if the cure isn't worse. From what I've seen of the discharge of those things it is.
I think Ron was referring to water displacing air in a sense of flooding a space on fire like you would an ammunition magazine.
I agree with you, just think you were taking Ron's comment about displacing out of context.Still it's most likely cooling. Using CO2 or other things to displace oxygen will not work on things that burn with either their own oxidizer or have a fire that burns hot enough (like magnesium) to break down the agent (such as water).
The intent of the escape breathing pack may have been to protect from the byproduct of halon extinguishing the fire, not the Halon itself.
The other (more likely as I think about our own EEBDs) reason for having escape breathing devices available is to prevent folks in the space from being overcome by smoke while they egress.
Sorry. As FT noted, that was not the analogy I was making. I was thinking of filling a closed but not sealed container with water, so the water displaces the air that was inside the container. If you pump a gas into that container, the gas mixes with the air rather than just displacing it, and what's left in the container is a mix of the two gases. So, when you flood a compartment with a gas like H1301 or CO2, after the initial mixing during the flooding process, you have a mix of gases in which the partial pressure of O2 is reduced in proportion to the ratio of mass of other gas added to the original mass of the air. If the O2 partial pressure is reduced enough (like when the H1301 concentration gets above about 60%), the result is like being at about FL250 without supplemental O2, and you pass out in fairly short order. OTOH, if you flood a compartment with water, as long as you can keep your head above the water level, you've got normal air and you can breathe.Water doesn't displace air in most firefighting,
The best fire fighting thing we have is prevention, keep your aircraft properly maintained you'll have no problems.
One of Hubby's students is a fireman. During the pre-ignition briefing, he has changed the standard script to, "In case of fire, you fly the plane and I'll fight the fire."Yes, I carry a fire extinguisher. A fireman is too heavy.
oh. you were there when we got briefed about what to do? they spent the money for scba for nothing?
I wasn't being argumentative or critical...
It's not uncommon for data center operational personnel to misunderstand how the infrastructure operates.
I have fielded dozens of phone calls in the middle of the night..."The power is off, the load switched to UPS then the generators came on. Now we are running on generator power. What should I do?"
Answer: "Nothing. System is working as designed."
Even though I went through hours of training them, they still didn't know How Things Work. More than a few heard old wives tales about their Halon systems, and anecdotal stories of horrible death by asphyxiation were somehow made into fact.
Some data centers have Scott packs because the corporate safety people demand them. They aren't necessary. When the pre-discharge alarm goes off, walking to the nearest exit is the appropriate response.
The only injury I've ever seen from a halon discharge was when an operator jumped over a raised floor railing trying to run out of the data center during an alarm sequence. He broke his arm when he landed on the floor.