Do I owe people more info?

A

Anonymous1

Guest
I'm currently on BasicMed because of a previous mental health diagnosis. Yes, I received a third class and SI prior to going this route. My question is, since BasicMed always creates some curiosity, do I owe passengers, safety pilots, CFI's, whoever information on why I don't have a medical anymore? Ethically, that is.
 
I don't see why you would need to do so. I don't even think I'd tell anyone I was on BasicMed. I would just say I had valid medical clearance to perform the flight, or something along those lines, and leave it at that. If I think someone is acting strangely, or that it wouldn't be safe to fly with them, I wouldn't fly with them even if they had a first class medical.
 
Sure you do ... and be sure and tell them score you got on the written, share what the DPE said were your weak areas, and remind all passengers of the things that are on the need to be replaced soon list from your A&P. ;)

OK, I'm being facetious. No, I don't believe you owe anyone an explanation. As Tarheelpilot noted ... as long as you are fit and legal for flight then your part is done.
 
No, you don’t owe an explanation and I’m not even sure how it would come up.

However,...

If someone asks, just tell them it allows your regular PCP, who knows you and all your medical history and treats you when you’re sick and gives you your vaccinations, to give you a flight physical instead of an AME you only see once in several years.

IOW, make it a positive. Because it is.
 
Basic Med is perfectly legitimate. There should be no ready to feel the need to tell someone you are flying under Basic Med vs a 3rd class medical.
 
I’ve never felt the need to provide proof of any of my legal requirements to any of my passengers. No more than taking them in my car.
 
Why does Basic Med always creat curiosity? Your passengers probably don’t even know private pilots have to meet any medical requirements unless you tell them.
 
Anonymous1 said:
whoever information on why I don't have a medical anymore? Ethically, that is.
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I don't get it. Isn't basicmed a medical? You still have to pass a physical exam with a state-licensed physician. If anybody asks you why, say something like; I use basicmed so I don't burden the overworked and backlogged FAA medical branch when this is all I need.
 
lsaway said:
I don't get it. Isn't basicmed a medical?
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Nope. BasicMed is 14 CFR 68.

PART 68 - REQUIREMENTS FOR OPERATING CERTAIN SMALL AIRCRAFT WITHOUT A MEDICAL CERTIFICATE

§ 68.1 Applicability.

This part prescribes the medical education and examination requirements for operating an aircraft under § 61.113(i) of this chapter without holding a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter.
 
Okay, so not a medical certificate issued under part 67, but a medical examination under 68.7. It sounds like a medical to me.
 
Anonymous1 said:
… My question is, since BasicMed always creates some curiosity….
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BasicMed has never created curiosity for anyone I interact with as a pilot. In fact, I can’t recall if anyone’s ever asked me about a medical at all.

But ethically, as long as you comply with the requirements of 14 CFR 68, the answer is exactly that. DPE or a ramp check? Show the cert and carry on. Nothing to be anxious about.
 
I only had a question about my medical situation when I got back into flying after an absence. When I said "current BasicMed" that was the end of the discussion. Seriously, nobody cares about the back story.

On the other hand, it seems that you're concerned about it. So perhaps you'd care to share why it bothers you that you're on BasicMed vs a Third Class Medical?
 
lsaway said:
Okay, so not a medical certificate issued under part 67, but a medical examination under 68.7. It sounds like a medical to me.
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It isn’t a medical in the eyes of most people. It’s a method to have something that allows you to fly under certain provisos. So yes there is definitely a stigma attached to it. Also many insurance companies after a certain level (say pressurized airplanes) don’t accept basic med and require a class 3 or higher.
 
How many non-pilots would have any understanding of BasicMed?

For that matter how many non-pilots would even know that any sort of medical anything is necessary for a pilot.
 
Anthem said:
It isn’t a medical in the eyes of most people. It’s a method to have something that allows you to fly under certain provisos. So yes there is definitely a stigma attached to it.
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Our pilots licenses only allow us to fly under certain provisions, so why should there be any stigma about any legal medical compliance that carries provisions? In my eyes, there are 4 FAA medicals: First Class, Second Class, Third Class, & BasicMed because they all require a physician's exam.. They all have their own provisions. Sport pilot, LTA, and gliders don't require a physician's exam, so those are the only things that don't require a medical. That's how I see it, as far as explaining it to somebody who asks. The FAA made the rules, so as long as we comply with them it really doesn't matter how we label them.
 
but the faa makes it clear. they did not make the basicmed rules. it was forced down on them legislatively. but there is absolutely a stigma in certain areas attached to basicmed. I have to hold a class 3 or higher if I want insurance for my pressurized single (or any pressurized twin or turbine i want to move to) thats a stigma from insurance companies. other countries outside of bahamas and mexico do not recognize basic med either. so make sure you dont land or have issues in canada.... but they accept all the FAA issued medicals.
 
Anthem said:
I have to hold a class 3 or higher if I want insurance for my pressurized single (or any pressurized twin or turbine i want to move to) thats a stigma from insurance companies.
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Basic Med has an altitude limitation of 18,000’. If you fly a pressurized aircraft, it’s reasonable to assume you want to go higher than that. That’s not a stigma; that’s an assessment of likely flight conditions.
 
Yeah, I'm not sure stigma is the word you're looking for here.

In my case, it would be foolish to get a 3rd class for what I need. Here's why:
Duration - BasicMed is 4yrs (yes, an online refresher every two) vs 3rd class which 2yrs.
Cost - BasicMed is free as my primary care physician does it as part of annual physical*. 3rd class is the standard cost w/ an AME.
Failure Recover - If I fail BasicMed then I only have to work with my PCP to resolve the problem and get him to sign off on BasicMed**. Fail a 3rd Class, and you get to deal w/ the FAA and their process. (check out our medical forum for current horror stories)
Current Flying - I do not fly above 18k ft, nor above 250kts, nor do I carry more than 5 passengers.

So what can I say? BasicMed was almost tailor made for my situation, and apparently a whole lot of other pilots.

* An idea that someone had here on PoA, that I like, is to renew the BasicMed every year, so that if something happens to your PCP, you have time to find another PCP who would be willing to do the BasicMed paperwork, instead of these things happening in the 47th month of your current BasicMed paperwork.

** As the FAA is never even notified that you failed the BasicMed test, there are no ramifications from them about failing the exam and life can stay reasonable.
 
QUOTE="Half Fast, post: 3374673, member: 28212"]Basic Med has an altitude limitation of 18,000’. If you fly a pressurized aircraft, it’s reasonable to assume you want to go higher than that. That’s not a stigma; that’s an assessment of likely flight conditions.[/QUOTE]

You would think so. But the p210 has a ceiling of 23k. Whereas the non pressurized one has a ceiling of 27k. Both are capable of well over the basic med ceiling. But there isn’t a requirement for 3rd class for the non pressurized 210 and there is for the p210 and the ceiling is significantly lower….
 
You owe your passengers a healthy and capable pilot, regardless of medical class.

If you're not up to scratch on the day of the proposed flight, you owe them that knowledge. You also owe them the maturity to scrub the flight if it's remotely in doubt.

No passenger I've ever carried would be interested in CAMI's medical-denial factory, it's vagaries, or its congressionally-mandated loopholes and workarounds.
 
Half Fast said:
Basic Med has an altitude limitation of 18,000’. If you fly a pressurized aircraft, it’s reasonable to assume you want to go higher than that. That’s not a stigma; that’s an assessment of likely flight conditions.
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Anthem said:
You would think so. But the p210 has a ceiling of 23k. Whereas the non pressurized one has a ceiling of 27k. Both are capable of well over the basic med ceiling. But there isn’t a requirement for 3rd class for the non pressurized 210 and there is for the p210 and the ceiling is significantly lower….
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I'm with @Half Fast on this one. Yes, the non-P 210 can go higher. But insurance companies have to base their requirements on reasonable expectations. And it's my guess that a P210 owner probably wants to operate over FL180 with some regularity, while the non-P owner likely doesn't, or at least not anywhere near as much. And an owner on Basic Med who flies a non-pressurized plane is far more likely to obey the 18,000 restriction than one who buys a pressurized plane.

I had a 150-hp Warrior up to 17,500 once. I probably could have gotten up above 18,000 if I wanted to. But that's certainly not a reasonable expectation of Warrior owners that an insurer should consider.
 
Not to derail this thread, but it is never a good idea to routinely fly above 18,000 feet in a non-pressurized cockpit. The risk of decompression issues starts to go up dramatically.
 
WingmanMed said:
Not to derail this thread, but it is never a good idea to routinely fly above 18,000 feet in a non-pressurized cockpit. The risk of decompression issues starts to go up dramatically.
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But he’s going to have a nitrogen scrubber and “seal the plane a bit”.
 
Speaking only for myself I feel that in order for a passenger or learner to make a risk assessment of the flight I need to reveal that I am blind in one eye and have had a traumatic brain injury from a motorcycle mishap at Bonneville.

I used to fly with a Statement of Demonstrated Ability and had a second class medical. I have recently switched to basic med.

I have only had one client decide not to fly with me because of my disabilities.
 
Clip4 said:
Why does Basic Med always creat curiosity? Your passengers probably don’t even know private pilots have to meet any medical requirements unless you tell them.
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I guess I was thinking more of CFI's and safety pilots. I hold a commercial and CFI, so yeah, it tends to raise questions.
 
In 35 years of flying, I can't remember the last time anybody (passenger, instructor, safety pilot) asked if I held a medical.
 
WingmanMed said:
Not to derail this thread, but it is never a good idea to routinely fly above 18,000 feet in a non-pressurized cockpit. The risk of decompression issues starts to go up dramatically.
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Do you mean Hypoxia? It's hard to have a decompression issue in an unpressurized plane.
 
Hang 4 said:
Do you mean Hypoxia? It's hard to have a decompression issue in an unpressurized plane.
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No I mean decompression sickness, not a cabin depressurization. At 18,000 ft you are at half of the atmospheric pressure compared to sea level. That is when the risk curve for decompression sickness starts to rise. The gasses dissolved in your blood will have a greater tendency to want to come out of solution and revert back to gasses. The higher the altitude, the greater the risk, but the big jump in risk starts at 18,000 ft.

As for Hypoxia, it starts to become an issue for most people above 10,000 ft. We have an Overview of Oxygen and Pressure article you can read on our blog.
 
TCABM said:
No, it really doesn’t, especially since the FAA fixed the BasicMed for safety pilot fiasco this last December.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2022/november/17/basicmed-limitation-lifted
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Ah, I'd forgotten about that, actually. Yes, I think that solves most of the problem - before, it was awkward to say, "Hey, I'm on BasicMed, so if you don't mind, I need to be PIC..."

Having a mental health diagnosis is just something most of us would prefer to hide, you know?
 
WingmanMed said:
No I mean decompression sickness, not a cabin depressurization. At 18,000 ft you are at half of the atmospheric pressure compared to sea level. That is when the risk curve for decompression sickness starts to rise. The gasses dissolved in your blood will have a greater tendency to want to come out of solution and revert back to gasses. The higher the altitude, the greater the risk, but the big jump in risk starts at 18,000 ft.
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That's a bit simplistic. The issue with Decompression Sickness is the rate of change, not absolute altitude. There's plenty of turbonormalized, unpressurized GA aircraft at the lower flight levels with no ill effect (assuming they have O2 for hypoxia). People climb mountains at almost 30,000 feet, but they are walking, so the dissolved gasses come out of solution without forming bubbles. An exception would be if you had been scuba diving and the level of dissolved gases was higher to start, hence the warning not to fly after diving. There is an absolute limit, around 45,000 feet and the Armstrong limit at ~60,000 feet where the blood "boils"
 
Don’t even bring it up. If a passenger asks if you have a medical certificate, just say yes. Extremely unlikely that a non-pilot pax will even know about medicals, let alone details and levels of certification. A great way to help your passengers lose confidence in your abilities is to offer up what your limitations are.

If you’re flying with a CFI or safety pilot, it’s on them to ask if you have a medical. If they ask, the answer is “yes”. Along the lines of Cap’n Ron’s checkride advice. If they want details they’ll ask.
 
Anonymous1 said:
Ah, I'd forgotten about that, actually. Yes, I think that solves most of the problem - before, it was awkward to say, "Hey, I'm on BasicMed, so if you don't mind, I need to be PIC..."

Having a mental health diagnosis is just something most of us would prefer to hide, you know?
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In a case where you need to discuss your medical paperwork don't respond with something like:
"Yeah, I'm BasicMed because I don't want to deal w/ the FAA about a mental health diagnosis"
Ding. Ding. Ding. "Oh, you have a mental health diagnosis? Please, tell me more."

Rather, respond with a more positive note, something like:
"Yeah, I'm BasicMed. You wouldn't believe how much easier it is to work w/ just my primary care physician! Especially since they fixed the Safely Pilot issue, I can't think of a time I need the limited extra leeway of a 3rd class"
Maybe a nod, but probably thinking "Yeah, that BasicMed sounds like something I should look into myself"

Everything is in how you present it.
-----
If I may, an example is your writing:
Having a mental health diagnosis is just something most of us would prefer to hide, you know?
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You make it sound like the mental health diagnosis is something you're ashamed of and feel is a black mark against you. Whether true or not, thats the way it comes across.

Compare that to something like:
Having a mental health diagnosis is just something most of us would prefer not to discuss, you know?
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This way it comes across as more of a personal situation than something you're ashamed of.

I am by no means meaning to come across as I have all the answers for you, as I don't. However, I do know that tone and presentation can be the difference between drawing attention to a situation vs making it a non-issue.

And yes, I can completely get not wanting to discuss a mental health diagnosis.
 
RussR said:
I'm with @Half Fast on this one. Yes, the non-P 210 can go higher. But insurance companies have to base their requirements on reasonable expectations. And it's my guess that a P210 owner probably wants to operate over FL180 with some regularity, while the non-P owner likely doesn't, or at least not anywhere near as much. And an owner on Basic Med who flies a non-pressurized plane is far more likely to obey the 18,000 restriction than one who buys a pressurized plane.
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the argument is whether there was bias against basic med - and there absolutely are in the insurance space. How about this - have a friend - 74 years old. They will not insure him with BasicMed - he must get a class 1,2,3 medical for insurance to insure him. . this is in a tail dragger. . so you can say its ageism (which we know it is), but they are in the risk mitigating space. . and for them - they are biased against basic med due to his age. but its a stigma/bias nonetheless.
 
Anthem said:
the argument is whether there was bias against basic med - and there absolutely are in the insurance space. How about this - have a friend - 74 years old. They will not insure him with BasicMed - he must get a class 1,2,3 medical for insurance to insure him. . this is in a tail dragger. . so you can say its ageism (which we know it is), but they are in the risk mitigating space. . and for them - they are biased against basic med due to his age. but its a stigma/bias nonetheless.
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No, the insurer is biased against his age. We have an 79-year old on BasicMed in our partnership and our insurer hasn’t blinked an eye.
 
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