Did not know about ADHD restrictions when I got my medical. What do I do?

mryan75 said:
I respectfully disagree. People choose to not take responsibility for their health and seek the treatment they need, and/or lie about it to avoid problems (never mind that committing a felony is indeed a problem). It is up to us to take responsibility for our health. Do people choose to lie? Absolutely. That’s nobody’s fault but theirs, nobody made them do it.

This is not a logic I’ve ever agreed with. It’s up to us to take responsibility for ourselves.
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When people are asking about an aviation career, there’s always the advice to have a backup plan in case you lose your medical. Seems like a lot of pilots don’t heed that advice.
 
bbchien said:
I think just the mere post count in this string by a single poster, points out who might have an issue here.

I wish the OP perseverance and determination which will be necessary ahead.
He’s going to need it.

I am reminded of the Larson Cartoon in which the Jersey is talking to the Psychiatrist…..
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Is there a caption missing from that cartoon?
 
Palmpilot said:
Is there a caption missing from that cartoon?
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1718843981472.png
 
Sad but interesting commentary on a crash of a young student pilot. How was this kid able to maintain a Medical cert after being caught about to fly an aircraft while intoxicated and prior observed attitude of the pilot to flying?

Seems like a ton of red flags but was able to keep flying.

Jet Montgomery in event link doesnt work.

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UTLonghorn_1979 said:
One becomes a test pilot because of their confidence in their aviating ability, or put another way, ego. Have you ever read anything about the Gemini and Apollo astronauts? Outside of Neil Armstrong, there were some incredibly strong personalities/egos. If some people didn't have the mindset, or ego, to say "that won't happen to me, I'm a better pilot...," we would still be flying subsonic.

There is such thing as calculated risk.

Maybe because I have experience in the experimental world, I view things differently. You're always a bit of a test pilot in that world.
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Experience in the experiemental as in flight testing for a manufacturer or the military, or flying an E-AB?
 
ateamer said:
Experience in the experiemental as in flight testing for a manufacturer or the military, or flying an E-AB?
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E-AB, in my case. Most recently after market mods to STOL type aircraft so lots of stall, slow flight and HP TO/LDG testing.

I was training for STOL comps before medical denial. Working through the HIMS deferral process right now.
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
I'm super thrilled for her, I mean that sincerely! My point is there is zero room for errors in that circumstance. If any of the flight systems/controls that are already exceptions to normal/typical flight go wrong, she's in a very bad place compared to someone with the both, or even 1 arm. So the FAA is allowing her to fly in spite of a very clear medical condition, because she has proven otherwise.

The heart of this thread is people, whether actually diagnosed or not, are finding themselves in the ADD/ADHD trap of the FAA and the process for these folks seems to be a much larger hurdle vs. someone, like Jessica for instance, to be able to enjoy the skyways; even if under sports pilot privileges.
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Cox has a Sport Pilot certificate and flies light sport aircraft, so there's no medical issue. You could have done the same. You're still comparing apples to oranges.
 
Lindberg said:
Cox has a Sport Pilot certificate and flies light sport aircraft, so there's no medical issue. You could have done the same. You're still comparing apples to oranges.
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No I couldn't, I've had my PPL and class 3 since 1999. I didn't get on zoloft until 2020 after a hiatus from flying, so I can't go backwards to sports pilot. This not so trivial fact makes no sense. Nor does it that you can self certify and fly self propelled gliders that can go 150 kts even if denied a medical.

You also must have missed that she's applying for a class 3 medical and my comment on how she would be issued that vs. someone, for instance, prescribed something for situational anxiety or prior substance abuse, but proven sobriety, and what happens if she's denied the class 3 and thus can no longer fly under sports pilots privileges.

I've very interested to see how the FAA handles this. I hope she gets her class 3. I also hope the FAA will revise it's processes to make most deferral situations a 6-9 month process vs. 1-3 year process.

And, honestly, comparing someone with a severe physical disability to someone with anxiety, history of substance abuse, or controlled diabetes, for example, is really comparing someone with a severe physical disability to someone with anxiety, history of substance abuse, or controlled diabetes.
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
No I couldn't, I've had my PPL and class 3 since 1999. I didn't get on zoloft until 2020 after a hiatus from flying, so I can't go backwards to sports pilot. This not so trivial fact makes no sense.
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It's also not accurate. You could have exercised sport privileges with your private pilot certificate and driver's license.
 
Lindberg said:
It's also not accurate. You could have exercised sport privileges with your private pilot certificate and driver's license.
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That's not accurate either for my situation. I was denied a class III for history of alcohol abuse (which really developed in the 12 months following the initial SSRI deferral), of which I have sought treatment and continue to do. I have been on zoloft for work related stress/anxiety, of which has been effective in controlling the anxiety for over 4 years, reason for initial deferral.

This was after already logging ~ 400 hours and getting my HP, complex, TW endorsements and getting a 97 grade on my IFR written. I was renewing my medical to take the IFR check ride when it was deferred then declined.

I'm working both the personal and FAA processes.
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
That's not accurate either for my situation. I was denied a class III for history of alcohol abuse (which really developed in the 12 months following the initial SSRI deferral), of which I have sought treatment and continue to do. I have been on zoloft for work related stress/anxiety, of which has been effective in controlling the anxiety for over 4 years, reason for initial deferral.

This was after already logging ~ 400 hours and getting my HP, complex, TW endorsements and getting a 97 grade on my IFR written. I was renewing my medical to take the IFR check ride when it was deferred then declined.

I'm working both the personal and FAA processes.
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So why is it not accurate for your situation? You couldn't have exercised sport privileges while suffering from a condition that would make you unable to operate an aircraft in a safe manner, but that's true even if you have a medical certificate. And you've repeatedly stated that you have no such condition.
 
Lindberg said:
So why is it not accurate for your situation? You couldn't have exercised sport privileges while suffering from a condition that would make you unable to operate an aircraft in a safe manner, but that's true even if you have a medical certificate. And you've repeatedly stated that you have no such condition.
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What are you talking about here? I have no idea what point you're trying to make. First you said I could fly under sports, then I can't because I was denied a class 3, thus making both PPL and SPL unavailable. The point I'm making is the SPL allows individuals who may or may not actually be approved to fly by the FAA to "skirt" the rules (as many put it here) and otherwise fly under the SPL.

And I never said I didn't have a condition. Thankfully I have treatable conditions, so I really don't understand what you're trying to say.

You can fly under SPL without a medical, correct? The answer is yes.

Thus you could fly with diabetes, ADHD, anxiety, etc as long as you have a drivers license because it's not required to report it to the FAA, correct? The answer is yes.

Will people withhold information or believe that certain conditions would not make it unsafe to operate a LSA aircraft? The answer is yes, because if the instructor feels the individual has demonstrated they are a safe pilot to operate under LSA/sports pilot (i.e. Jessica Cox), they don't ask about any medical conditions and the pilot is issued the sports pilot license.

If you apply for a class 3 and are denied for any reason, you cannot then operate under sports pilot either, correct? The answer is yes.

I've met some incredibly unsafe LSA pilots...one bought my Rans S-20 and flew it 15 hours straight including between the hours of sunset and 4am. Said LSA pilot has also already crashed an aircraft during takeoff but somehow continues to fly under sports pilot rules.

So the fact that someone can fly under a SPL doesn't mean they should be flying, yet the FAA allows that under current rules when they would not otherwise qualify for a PPL.
 
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UTLonghorn_1979 said:
What are you talking about here? I have no idea what point you're trying to make. First you said I could fly under sports, then I can't because I was denied a class 3, thus making both PPL and SPL unavailable. The point I'm making is the SPL allows individuals who may or may not actually be approved to fly by the FAA to "skirt" the rules (as many put it here) and otherwise fly under the SPL
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You could have exercised sport privileges based on your private certificate before you applied for a medical that you should have been aware would be deferred. That's assuming you didn't have a condition that prevents you from safely flying, which you've denied. So there you go. All those pilots the FAA let's fly around without a medical, you could have been one too.
 
Lindberg said:
You could have exercised sport privileges based on your private certificate before you applied for a medical that you should have been aware would be deferred. That's assuming you didn't have a condition that prevents you from safely flying, which you've denied. So there you go. All those pilots the FAA let's fly around without a medical, you could have been one too.
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Well, that’s for certain an inconvenient truth, but a SPL would not have met my needed mission and since I was training for my IFR rating. Family of 4 flying won’t work under SPL either, as it currently stands.

In hindsight, yes, I wish I’d known that the FAA was in total disarray when it comes to processing medical deferrals.

As of now, I’m dealing with what the FAA has dealt. But I will strive to make it better for the next person.
 
flyingron said:
Not just dishonesty. The system also dissuades people from seeking treatment lest the history of that treatment cause them grief with their medical.
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^^^This, so much this.

Honestly we all know people who avoid the doctor to avoid getting a diagnoses.
 
Concerned CFI said:
In my early 20s I got diagnosed with ADHD (although I was never tested). Used the medication for about 5 years but then discontinued use in 2018 as the side effects were cumbersome and there was no more benefits. Since then I have no more symptoms and my quality of life has increased.

At the end of 2020 I got my first medical to start flight school and today I'm a CFI. I found out this week that even though I wasn't using/prescribed medication for at least 2 years when i got the medical it should have been reported to my AME.

I have checked the latest FAA guidance but I'm not sure what to do. Should I let the medical expire and then correct it with my AME? Anyone has any idea?
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I wouldn't say anything if you weren't tested it never happened.
 
Ben Loper said:
I wouldn't say anything if you weren't tested it never happened.
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Let me be sure I understand you. You're advising this person to falsify a federal form (a felony, BTW) by omitting information that's recorded as a diagnosis in the pharmacy database and in the physician's records.

Do I have that right?
 
Half Fast said:
Let me be sure I understand you. You're advising this person to falsify a federal form (a felony, BTW) by omitting information that's recorded as a diagnosis in the pharmacy database and in the physician's records.

Do I have that right?
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An account registered two years ago with one post before today, when he came back to defend Dan Gryder.
 
Half Fast said:
Let me be sure I understand you. You're advising this person to falsify a federal form (a felony, BTW) by omitting information that's recorded as a diagnosis in the pharmacy database and in the physician's records.

Do I have that right?
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Apparently he already did, are you recommending that he go turn himself in?
 
Ben Loper said:
Apparently he already did, are you recommending that he go turn himself in?
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I think the recommendation waaaaay back in post #7 is probably the best way to set the record straight.

Your “it didn’t happen” approach is demonstrably false and merely extends the original offense. Bad idea.
 
He asked for ideas and I gave him mine, it’s his choice. I hope they don’t charge him for the original offense.
 
What is the federal statute of limitations of making a false statement?
 
MauleSkinner said:
When people are asking about an aviation career, there’s always the advice to have a backup plan in case you lose your medical. Seems like a lot of pilots don’t heed that advice.
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Yep. I follow the FAA on instagram. No matter what they post there’s always 50 near-hysterical (and completely unrelated) comments about pilot mental health and medical reform. It’s always the blame-someone-else bit about being forced to lie. I tell the kids to take responsibility for themselves. A big reason why I sit behind a desk is that I don’t want a health problem ending my career.
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
That's not accurate either for my situation. I was denied a class III for history of alcohol abuse (which really developed in the 12 months following the initial SSRI deferral), of which I have sought treatment and continue to do. I have been on zoloft for work related stress/anxiety, of which has been effective in controlling the anxiety for over 4 years, reason for initial deferral.

This was after already logging ~ 400 hours and getting my HP, complex, TW endorsements and getting a 97 grade on my IFR written. I was renewing my medical to take the IFR check ride when it was deferred then declined.

I'm working both the personal and FAA processes.
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You won’t believe me when I say this, but I truly wish you the best in dealing with what you’re going through on a personal level. But honest to God, with what you’ve written here, I’m grateful you’re not able to put your family in a plane and go flying.
 
sky7 said:
pretty sure its 5 years
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If correct, that raises an interesting possibility for those who find the FAA's medical process too daunting and cumbersome.

Let's consider a hypothetical aspirant private pilot. Call him Joe Highwing. Joe is rather typical of those who come to the POA medical forum seeking advice, as he has some complications with getting a Class 3 medical. Joe has a childhood ADHD diagnosis for which he no longer takes meds, two DUI busts, one bust for cannabis, and he has depression for which he takes two meds, only one of which is on the FAA's "okay" list. Having wisely perused this forum, Mr. Highwing realizes that he is facing a loooong, expensive, and arduous HIMS path if he wants to become a pilot, with no certainty that he will ultimately be approved, and probably lifelong monitoring and sobriety if he is.

After thinking things over, Joe decides to take an illegal but only slightly risky approach.

Joe fills out a falsified medical application. Basically he lies through his teeth and creates the appearance of a squeaky-clean applicant on paper. He then makes an appointment with an AME who makes the (rather cursory) 3rd class exam, and then seeing (for all he knows) the medical history of a perfectly healthy lad, issues the Class 3. Joe walks out of the office with a Class 3 medical, but.....

For the next 5 years Joe does absolutely nothing at all with it. He never so much as walks onto an airport property, let alone gets into an airplane. No flight training, nothing. Having no reason whatsoever to investigate Mr. Highwing's real medical history, the FAA never becomes aware of the truth.

Then, 5 years later, the Class 3 medical has expired and the statute of limitations has run out on the falsification felony. Joe then fills out a Basic Med application, except this time he writes the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. He discloses everything he ommitted before, then makes an appointment with a doctor who does DOT exams, Basic Med, etc. The doc performs the exam, looks over Joe's medical history and, seeing nothing that requires a 1-time SI medical, signs the form. This truthful form never goes to the FAA, remember; it's simply kept in Joe's logbook.

Joe has now reached a Basic Med safe haven and can begin pilot training. He can't be prosecuted for the original false application, the FAA cannot revoke an expired medical, and the FAA won't see his truthful form.

By taking the small risk of getting caught falsifying the original application, Joe has arrived at the spot he desired without the expense of HIMS and tons of tests, and probably in about the same amount of time.

Anybody wanna bet it will happen? Or that it already has?
 
Half Fast said:
Joe has a childhood ADHD diagnosis for which he no longer takes meds, two DUI busts, one bust for cannabis, and he has depression for which he takes two meds, only one of which is on the FAA's "okay" list.
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You think an MD is gonna sign off on that guy being okay to fly? Not a chance.
 
Half Fast said:
Anybody wanna bet it will happen? Or that it already has?
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I would bet any amount of money that you'd be willing to match that there are pilots flying on basic med who lied on previous medical applications. Is that the question?
 
mryan75 said:
You think an MD is gonna sign off on that guy being okay to fly? Not a chance.
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Difficult, but that wasn't my point. But when you come right down to it, I think somewhere in the US you can probably find an MD who would take the guy's money and sign.
 
Lindberg said:
I would bet any amount of money that you'd be willing to match that there are pilots flying on basic med who lied on previous medical applications. Is that the question?
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That's the crux, but a more elaborate example of a deliberate skirting, and a minimal-risk violation.
 
Half Fast said:
That's the crux, but a more elaborate example of a deliberate skirting, and a minimal-risk violation.
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I think it would be extremely naive to believe stuff like this isn't happening already. If I'm reading about pilots that are actively flying without even a license, let alone any sort of medical, it's safe to say that people aren't being truthful about their situation on medical applications.

I've already posted a study on this forum from 2023 showing that ~30% of pilots aren't reporting mental conditions (including depression) and ~ 50% aren't reporting conditions to AMEs (be it physical or mental in nature).

HIMS processes are ONLY effective when the subject individual is being 100% honest. Anytime human motivation (the H and M in HIMS) are present, it's obvious that many people will hide or manipulate the truth to get what they want.

A member on this same thread already posted elsewhere that the smartest person they know has extreme bipolar disorder, and that you would NEVER know it if you met them. Theoretically, this same bipolar person could be flying for the airlines if they so chose to lie about their condition and active treatment. Meanwhile, individuals with far more innocuous conditions are run through the ringer by the FAA to prove they are okay to fly...even if they have 20+ years and 1,000's of hours demonstrating such.

The short of it is, the FAA rewards dishonest behavior and punishes honest behavior. Period.
 
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