Did not know about ADHD restrictions when I got my medical. What do I do?

It's also quite possible that people were underdiagnosed in the past. That certainly does apply to a lot of the ASD. Johnny was always a weird kid was often a diagnosis in the past without delving into why.

And if it were considered written in stone, it would be disingenuous. The answer, however, that there is a procedure to verify that misdiagnosis. It has waffled over the years with the FAA, but we are back in the case where long term success without medication, gets you a pass. Otherwise, there's analysis (perhaps slower and costlier than one might like) to confirm it.

The problem is that you don't "grow out" of ADD/ADHD, so if you actually did have it as a kid, it's a large red flag as an adult.
[/QUOTE]



Maybe it was misdiagnosed before the prevalence of ritalin, adderall, etc., but I really don't think we've become that much more aware/better at diagnosing ADD/ADHD between 2009 and 2024, right?

I totally agree there are adults with full blown ADD/ADHD that have no place in a cockpit, I don't believe, however, that the population of medical applicants is in reality as large as the FAA or many on this chain seem to believe, but I acknowledge that you want someone that is diligent and not constantly distracted attending to things. The population I'm referring to are those that didn't really need that diagnosis and thus medication, but were prescribed it anyways because, "hell, it can't hurt things." I know tons of people in college that didn't have ADD/ADHD that got prescribed adderall to help them study during finals.

Wouldn't flight instructors be able to tell and state if a student was incapable of paying attention and attending to the needs of being PIC? I hear instructors tell me all the time that there are folks that they won't fly with because they are totally unsafe but otherwise pass the FAA's test for medical fitness.

My point is things aren't as black and white as the FAA approaches them.
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
I think DJ's point is we're a prescription and diagnosis happy country, both individuals and doctors are taking the expedient route, treating the symptoms vs. the underlying condition, or just wanting to do what's the most convenient for parents/teachers/etc vs. what's truly best for the individual. It's easier to just put a diagnosis on a 6-15 YO kid and put them on ADD meds vs. find a learning environment or outlet that's conducive to a child that can't sit still. And just because a person has an episode of sadness, doesn't mean they are clinically depressed and doctors should not be so quick to prescribe something that just numbs a person vs. dealing with those feelings. Think Purdue Pharma on the ubiquitous use of opiates for things like headaches (that's crazy!). We're a nation with a pill for everything!

Depression and anxiety disorders are real, as is hard core ADD/ADHD. But I find it hard to believe that there's really a 400% increase in people with ADD/ADHD over a 10-15 year period.

People are misdiagnosed all the time, so saying a diagnosis is final and written in stone is pretty disingenuous, IMO.
Click to expand...
All well and good, and still changes nothing about my response. The guy said he “wasn’t diagnosed” (which is what they always say), and he was. Simple as that.
 
mryan75 said:
All well and good, and still changes nothing about my response.
Click to expand...
And that's exactly the attitude leading to why we find the FAA in the situation it's in. I'm glad the AOPA recognizes this and that's one reason why I donate to them.
 
mryan75 said:
All well and good, and still changes nothing about my response. The guy said he “wasn’t diagnosed” (which is what they always say), and he was. Simple as that.
Click to expand...

Read the OP again. He stated "I got diagnosed with ADHD (although I was never tested)" which made no sense to me. I undersand what others have pointed out where the doc just gives out a prescription without really doing any testing to determine what the cause is. I guess it's kinda like when the car cranks over slowly and the owner buys a battery thinking that's the problem (but it isn't).

I wondered how they can call it a diagnosis without a test result to prove it as without testing it just seems to me to be a shot in the dark. But as pointed out here, if you're taking the meds the FAA is gonna hold to the fact that they must be needed if the doc prescribed them. Visious circle ...
 
Daleandee said:
I wondered how they can call it a diagnosis without a test result to prove it as without testing it just seems to me to be a shot in the dark.
Click to expand...
There are a lot of conditions for which there is no "test" to prove it. It's often the doctor's observation of the patient over a period of time that leads to a diagnosis.
 
dbahn said:
There are a lot of conditions for which there is no "test" to prove it. It's often the doctor's observation of the patient over a period of time that leads to a diagnosis.
Click to expand...

Then he's testing the patient using empirical evidence by the data gained from observation ... ;)
 
Daleandee said:
Then he's testing the patient using empirical evidence by the data gained from observation ... ;)
Click to expand...
. . . just like any human trying to solve puzzles without computers. The cave men relied on the data obtained from observation to solve everyday problems. That's how we survive.

My point is that some diagnoses can only be made by direct observation. My brother has ALS, the diagnosis made entirely by observation ("observations" can include things that include the evaluation of tests that "rule out" some conditions). There is no biological test for that diagnosis.
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
So you do admit that the FAA has bad medical practices? Clearly you didn't really read, or understand the underlying point of my posts
Click to expand...

No, my point is, the FAA is right about ADHD, depression, etc. If your doctor is diagnosing you with things you don't have, it isn't the FAA's fault and should not be laid at the FAA's feet. I said so very clearly.in the post you quoted, so apparently you didn't pay much attention while reading my post.

I have my own opinions about some very stupid bits and pieces of the FAA's medical branch, but I don't think they are wrong in their very intense scrutiny of those with mental illnesses and/or disorders. I also don't support doctors medicating anyone just because they don't want to do the work to focus on boring things or medicating children simply because they don't behave in adult environments.
 
SkyChaser said:
stop taking out your frustration about bad medical practices on the FAA.
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You said, "stop taking out your frustration about bad medical practices on the FAA." You should have clarified you were referring to GP's only as I'm referring to both GP's and the FAA medical staffing. We can certainly agree on the former.

So are you okay with an adult with no arms getting a class 3 medical, but a kid/teen diagnosed with ADD/ADHD who’s now an adult and not on any medication any longer not getting one?

Are you aware the FAA is actively looking to hire people with severe mental and physical disabilities? Yeah, I have total confidence in their judgment on who should and should not fly.

nypost.com

FAA’s diversity push includes focus on hiring people with ‘severe intellectual’ and ‘psychiatric’ disabilities

The FAA is actively recruiting workers who suffer “severe intellectual” disabilities, psychiatric problems and other mental and physical conditions under a diversity and inclusion hirin…
nypost.com nypost.com
 
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UTLonghorn_1979 said:
And that's exactly the attitude leading to why we find the FAA in the situation it's in.
Click to expand...
What “attitude”? I’ve done nothing other than dismiss strawman responses for what they are. He said he wasn’t diagnosed; he was. That’s not an “attitude”. That’s “reality”.
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
You said, "stop taking out your frustration about bad medical practices on the FAA." You should have clarified you were referring to GP's only as I'm referring to both GP's and the FAA medical staffing. We can certainly agree on the former.

So are you okay with an adult with no arms getting a class 3 medical, but a kid/teen diagnosed with ADD/ADHD who’s now an adult and not on any medication any longer not getting one?

Are you aware the FAA is actively looking to hire people with severe mental and physical disabilities? Yeah, I have total confidence in their judgment on who should and should not fly.

nypost.com

FAA’s diversity push includes focus on hiring people with ‘severe intellectual’ and ‘psychiatric’ disabilities

The FAA is actively recruiting workers who suffer “severe intellectual” disabilities, psychiatric problems and other mental and physical conditions under a diversity and inclusion hirin…
nypost.com nypost.com
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I am fine with an adult getting a class three medical with no arms if their plane is properly rigged for them to fly it. There is a way to do that. There is no way to rig a plane so an ADHD person could. However, I am fine with that now adult getting a medical if he proves he doesn't have the diagnosis. It sucks that doctors are pill pushers, that teachers are lazy, and parents think sitting still is important enough to drug their children to achieve. It sucks that decisions outside of your control were made and now you're dealing with the consequences, but that is called "life" and sometimes, life sucks. Through no real fault of your own. The fact that people who don't have a disorder are being told they do is the issue, not the FAA's medical policy about said disorder.

I don't agree with the FAA's hiring practices and I have no clue what they have to do with this discussion. As far as I know, getting hired by the FAA doesn't automatically grant you a medical and pilot's license, so that topic is not germane to this discussion.
 
mryan75 said:
What “attitude”? I’ve done nothing other than dismiss strawman responses for what they are. He said he wasn’t diagnosed; he was. That’s not an “attitude”. That’s “reality”.
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The attitude that, it's done, finished, no argument, I don't want to hear any possibility that it's the wrong diagnosis. It's like someone being convicted of murder and you're approached by a forensics specialist who says, "You know, the evidence was circumstantial at best and we have this new technology called DNA testing. We can DNA test what we found at the crime scene and really see if this is the right suspect." Would your response, or attitude be, "yeah, I don't care, he was proven guilty in a court of law, even if the evidence was questionable or the investigation wasn't done by the book."

The reality is medicine and science aren't perfect, it evolves with the more we know. We don't cut off the arm when the finger is broken. I feel like I'm debating with the doctors who found the idea of germs ridiculous and chastised and criticized the doctors who suggested a sterile environment and sterile tools during surgery. Or the idea that six feet distance and wearing masks that don't even filter viruses was a perfectly sound and reasonable solution to stop the spread of Covid.
 
As a retired physician I see this whole thing as multiple failures, but they primarly rest with pharma and the medical providers and less with the FAA as an agency of the government. Patients act on advertisements, doctors and other health care providers react to patient requests (not always their actual "needs") and the FAA reacts to medical information provided to them and then go by the algorithms dreamed up by bureaucrats.
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
Are you aware the FAA is actively looking to hire people with severe mental and physical disabilities? Yeah, I have total confidence in their judgment on who should and should not fly.
Click to expand...
This has nothing to do with the subject at hand, however the most brilliant human being I know (and it’s not even close) has a severe psychiatric condition. Major, major case of bipolar disorder. You wouldn’t even know it talking to him. He is in good medical care. He’s an attorney, and I would have zero issue whatsoever with the FAA hiring him for a position in his area of expertise. When the FAA starts hiring people with severe psychiatric conditions for flying positions, be sure and let us know.
 
SkyChaser said:
I am fine with an adult getting a class three medical with no arms if their plane is properly rigged for them to fly it. There is a way to do that. There is no way to rig a plane so an ADHD person could. However, I am fine with that now adult getting a medical if he proves he doesn't have the diagnosis. It sucks that doctors are pill pushers, that teachers are lazy, and parents think sitting still is important enough to drug their children to achieve. It sucks that decisions outside of your control were made and now you're dealing with the consequences, but that is called "life" and sometimes, life sucks. Through no real fault of your own. The fact that people who don't have a disorder are being told they do is the issue, not the FAA's medical policy about said disorder.

I don't agree with the FAA's hiring practices and I have no clue what they have to do with this discussion. As far as I know, getting hired by the FAA doesn't automatically grant you a medical and pilot's license, so that topic is not germane to this discussion.
Click to expand...
Wow, I totally disagree there. There are so many things that have to go perfectly for that one armed person to not have an issue and ensure a safe flight from engine start to shut off. I can't believe this is a genuine discussion. I was just reading about a pilot with 3,000 hours who crashed and killed their entire family because 1. he was fixated on trying to get nav points into his GPS midflight and in IFR weather, and 2. didn't have his glasses.

There are so many things that can go wrong in a flight and to say that someone with sleep apnea, for instance, is unfit yet literally has all the physical capabilities, and redundancies, to control an aircraft is unfit.

My point about the hiring practices is these are the same folks who are driving all things aviation policy related and are also saying it's totally fine to hire individuals with these deficiencies to execute, administrate and otherwise help run the FAA. It is highly unlikely the private sector would hire any people meeting these medical circumstances due to liability and inability to properly do their job. Yet, the FAA is actively seeking and making hiring decisions to bring in these individuals vs. otherwise qualified people.

It's a demonstration of poor decision making...one that I believe is example after example of those in the administration of things.
 
dbahn said:
As a retired physician I see this whole thing as multiple failures, but they primarly rest with pharma and the medical providers and less with the FAA as an agency of the government. Patients act on advertisements, doctors and other health care providers react to patient requests (not always their actual "needs") and the FAA reacts to medical information provided to them and then go by the algorithms dreamed up by bureaucrats.
Click to expand...
I totally agree. But when the FAA has its own medical staff, who so often overrule the treating physicians reports and advice, the FAA can go the other way and say the GP had it wrong, use their own judgment and issue. This is the whole argument I'm making about having to get private sector HIMS specialist then the FAA really ignoring their feedback and coming to their own determination. It's a waste of time and money.
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
I agree we should have standards, I'm under a HIMS review/medical deferral, and I want safe pilots in the air too. I also know pilots who breezed through the medical process, got their PPL and there's no way in hell I'd fly with them.

Also, someone please help me understand, and please note I'm thrilled for this person, that Jessica Cox can fly with no arms and be medically safe to fly, but so many pilots are declined for so many other reasons that are, I'd say with little room for argument, far less prone to accidents and far safer in the air. I read she is going for her class 3 medical, does she realize if she's declined she's then no longer able to fly under sports pilot privileges? Or will the FAA make an exception for her? If so, that's completely unfair to the folks out there who inadvertently shot themselves in the foot by trusting the process by reporting conditions which then lead to medical issuance declination and forfeited the sports pilot option.

I'm curious how the FAA will handle this and what can of worms it opens up for existing pilots that have been declined class 3 medicals, and thus can't even operate under sports pilot privileges.
Click to expand...
The mental suitability of a pilot candidate trumps most physical issues. As it should.
 
mryan75 said:
This has nothing to do with the subject at hand, however the most brilliant human being I know (and it’s not even close) has a severe psychiatric condition. Major, major case of bipolar disorder. You wouldn’t even know it talking to him. He is in good medical care. He’s an attorney, and I would have zero issue whatsoever with the FAA hiring him for a position in his area of expertise. When the FAA starts hiring people with severe psychiatric conditions for flying positions, be sure and let us know.
Click to expand...
Then the argument, that I so often see on these threads, that you can't have sound judgment, or make good sound decisions when you have a history of mental health (be it ADD, anxiety, depression, bipolar, postpartum, etc.) and thus are unfit to fly, is totally debunked.

Let me put it this way, if I had 1,500 hours and all flying with an instructor, because I could not get a medical, and the instructor's determination was that I was a safe pilot, completed "checkrides," written testing, ground, etc. for all aspects of my ratings, etc., and recommends that I be issued a medical, would you say I should be issued a medical? I've pretty much demonstrated I'm an expert in my field, i.e. aviation. I have enought hour to go to the commercials.
 
dbahn said:
And most physical issues are a known quantity, so to speak. Psychological issues are poorly quantitated, even in the best of hands.
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I totally agree! You’re making my argument! Let the best hands make that determination, let the HIMS specialists, already vetted by the FAA and who are often pilots as well, lead that charge.
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
I totally agree! You’re making my argument! Let the best hands make that determination, let the HIMS specialists, already vetted by the FAA and who are often pilots as well, lead that charge.
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Which brings the circle around to the docs and other providers (nurses, social workers, therapists, etc, etc.) who make a diagnosis in the first place, because they are required to do that get get payment for services and get the drugs that they often don't really need to be paid for.

If you haven't read it, Empire of Pain and other books and online references detail how the Sackler family cleverly convinced doctors to prescibe the medicine under pressure from other providers which led to over prescribing Oxycontin and made the Sacklers billionairs, while people using the drug were dying from overdosing and addiction. In addition to the deaths, it's a sad commentary on how poorly the system works.
 
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dbahn said:
Which brings the circle around to the docs and other providers (nurses, social workers, therapists, etc, etc.) who make a diagnosis in the first place, because they are required to do that get get payment for services and get the drugs that they often don't really need to be paid for.

If you haven't read it Empire of Pain and other books and online references detail how the Sackler family cleverly convinced doctors to prescibe the medicine under pressure from other providers which led to over prescribing Oxycontin and made the Sacklers billionairs, while people using the drug were dying from overdosing and addiction. In addition to the deaths, it's a sad commentary on how poortly the system works.
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I totally agree. It’s the sad side effect of capitalism. No better system, but greed will always take its roots in any system.
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
Wow, I totally disagree there. There are so many things that have to go perfectly for that one armed person to not have an issue and ensure a safe flight from engine start to shut off. I can't believe this is a genuine discussion. I was just reading about a pilot with 3,000 hours who crashed and killed their entire family because 1. he was fixated on trying to get nav points into his GPS midflight and in IFR weather, and 2. didn't have his glasses.

There are so many things that can go wrong in a flight and to say that someone with sleep apnea, for instance, is unfit yet literally has all the physical capabilities, and redundancies, to control an aircraft is unfit.

My point about the hiring practices is these are the same folks who are driving all things aviation policy related and are also saying it's totally fine to hire individuals with these deficiencies to execute, administrate and otherwise help run the FAA. It is highly unlikely the private sector would hire any people meeting these medical circumstances due to liability and inability to properly do their job. Yet, the FAA is actively seeking and making hiring decisions to bring in these individuals vs. otherwise qualified people.

It's a demonstration of poor decision making...one that I believe is example after example of those in the administration of things.
Click to expand...
Every single flight has risks and every single flight involves deciding enough of the risks can be mitigated to justify the flight. Physical limitations are known risks that can be defined and mitigating measures can be taken. For sleep apnea, that is treating said sleep apnea satisfactorily. For one arm operations, that is changing positions of controls. Mental issues are an entirely different can of worms and touch a lot more of the important bits of flight than physical limitations...and are next to impossible to fully comprehend the impact of and thus, impossible to truly mitigate. It would be extremely bad decision-making to allow such a flight risk into the air.

I still hold that FAA hiring practices have nothing to do with the discussion. We are talking FAA as it exists, not as it will exist once it hires a bunch of incompetent and mentally-challenged individuals.

Also, doctors prescribing unnecessary medication has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with lack of ethics. Greed at the cost of others is not driven by capitalism but by a moral and ethical failing.
 
Daleandee said:
Seeing is believing. Pilot Jessica Cox is very inspiring!

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I agree, it is very inspiring! I wonder how many people are flying under sports pilot privileges with ADD/ADHD, anxiety, depression, and whatever other malady with as much success as she is with no arms and without any incidences.

Why isn’t there a study on that to extrapolate into unrestricted class 3 medical issuance?

Using your seeing as believing comment, would that be sufficient for you and the FAA to change the current practices?
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
Why isn’t there a study on that to extrapolate into unrestricted class 3 medical issuance?

Using your seeing as believing comment, would that be sufficient for you and the FAA to change the current practices?
Click to expand...
You can easily SEE that the applicant has no arms. You can't detect a person with mental illness that easily. In fact in some cases it's nearly impossible. That's why the FAA has very rigid standards for certification, i.e. the HIMS program. The unfortunate thing is that has to be applied to everyone who ever had the diagnosis, including lots of kids for whom it's just not accurate.
 
dbahn said:
You can easily SEE that the applicant has no arms. You can't detect a person with mental illness that easily. In fact in some cases it's nearly impossible. That's why the FAA has very rigid standards for certification, i.e. the HIMS program. The unfortunate thing is that has to be applied to everyone who ever had the diagnosis, including lots of kids for whom it's just not accurate.
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No arguments there. that’s why I’d suggest using empirical and evidential data on people who never went the class 3 route and are currently flying under sports pilot privileges. my guess is there is a good population of people that would be declined for class 3 that are otherwise flying safely, responsibly without incident.

I might be wrong, but it’s my understanding as long as you qualify for a drivers license and get the proper pilot license sign off, you can fly any LSA aircraft, with soon to be mosaic performance.

Once mosaic has passed all the pilots essentially have access to the same aircraft class 3 are operating under.
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
Let me put it this way, if I had 1,500 hours and all flying with an instructor, because I could not get a medical, and the instructor's determination was that I was a safe pilot, completed "checkrides," written testing, ground, etc. for all aspects of my ratings, etc., and recommends that I be issued a medical, would you say I should be issued a medical?
Click to expand...
No. Mental well-being at that level is not something that instructors are trained to recognize.
 
ADD HIMS Success said:
The FAA considers a prescription a diagnosis. I was never officially diagnosed with ADHD either, but (like half the population under 40) was still given medication. I got to go through the joys of the full gamut of FAA neuropsychological testing in order to get my medical.
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Half the population was not given ADHD medications. More like less than 5%.
 
Palmpilot said:
The percentage appears to be going up.

"ADHD diagnoses are rising. 1 in 9 U.S. kids have gotten one, new study finds"

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-...in-9-u-s-kids-have-gotten-one-new-study-finds
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Still signigicantly less than the group always seems to claim. The issue is that the minority is very vocal about how things should be because they are being excluded until proven to be fit otherwise - using a standard that they arent comfortable or willing (personally or financially) to undertake.
 
Lindberg said:
How often? Are you suggesting that's the situation in your case?
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Not my specific case. But I've spoken with enough pilots in the situation and via my AME to know this isn't uncommon. AME says should be a go, FAA says no.
 
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