Dan Gryder Lockheed Electra Crash

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I wish Dan and everyone else a speedy recovery. I’d watch more of his videos if he just played the banjo.
 
too funny
flyingcheesehead said:
Over on Facebook, a guy who claims to know all three occupants of the aircraft says that "The NTSB guy no sh*t says to Dan Gryder: can’t wait to hear u tell me what caused u to crash!!!" :rofl:
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Facebook info
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https://www.facebook.com/AviationAccidentsThisDayInHistory/posts/805080514937558&show_text=true&width=500" width="500" height="800" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="true" allow="autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; picture-in-picture; web-share"></iframe>

The left seat pilot Glen Hancock, owner, made it out under his own power. The right seat pilot Gryder and another pilot who was observing were trapped in the aircraft until rescue arrived. All are alert with varying degrees of injuries. FTR, normal landing, NTSB rep said evidence of mechanical failure. The 7 Lakes folks moved it to owners hangar, washed it down, inspected and have a rebuild plan. The science of events that allowed them to survive is an amazing story in itself.
 
The video on Facebook on the repair of the landing gear is an interesting watch.

Granted that they did not have a manual for this plane, but.....
They failed to remove the fluid from the strut, and spilled it on the floor.
They attempted to insert all the seals in the tube together, would not go, then one at a time worked, short cuts do not save time.
The re assembly took place without a torque wrench present, and torque set to as tight as they could turn with the length wrench they were using.
No ratchet and extension, just flex handle and box end, and the fender made the flex hard to turn.

I have only assisted this sequence on Cessna's, but we did not spill the fluid, and we did torque everything, partly based on bolt ratings, part on Cessna spec.

They mentioned that they would do a test flight in a few days to see if it was right, I wonder if Gryder was on that test flight?

Maybe Gryder had nothing to do with this outcome? Just a free flight to get video for his upcoming analysis of the previous Electra crash?
 
Anyone know exactly where on the airfield the hangar and tree are? I was looking at Google Earth and it wasn't obvious to me.
 
4RNB said:
If only that pilot had some AQP training this would not have happened.
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Mechanical stuff can and does happen. Had a brake shatter and lock up on me last year in my Luscombe. Not much you can do about those things except for preventative maintenance, and even that's not 100%.
 
That yoke pushed so far is pretty scary. He is fortunate to be alive. Pinned in a plane leaking fuel with a still-running engine does not sound like a good time. As much of a blowhard as he seems to be i am pleased he is not in worse shape. Hopefully the others recover fully.
 
StraightnLevel said:
I may be wrong, but it looks to me as if the rudders move to the right just after the plane starts going left. Mechanical issue of some sort?
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Watch the tailwheel when it touches. It wobbles and spins around completely and then the airplane goes left while holding right x-wind correction and rudder.
 
StraightnLevel said:
I may be wrong, but it looks to me as if the rudders move to the right just after the plane starts going left. Mechanical issue of some sort?
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Yep, looked the same from here. I'm also curious why differential braking wasn't enough to save things. By the time the tail came down it was going very slow.
 
The facebook post, as screenshots for easier reading:
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StraightnLevel said:
OK, I see that now - thanks for pointing it out.

That must be a terrible feeling to be pushing the right pedal as hard as you can while it's heading left, straight into a tree.
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Other thing is the effect of heavy airplane on grass. It's an eery feeling when you start skidding towards the trees! Pilot could have stomped on the right brake and the airplane started to skid sideways toward the tree.
 
I'm wondering if one pilot thought they could make that taxiway, and the other didn't.
 
Let us suppose the right brakes were not correctly assembled when the right strut was repaired.

A normal touchdown, brakes gently applied on both sides, the plane starts turning to the left, full right rudder is applied, along with more brakes both sides, but right is totally not working. As the plane slows, the rudders become useless, and the turn from brakes, left side only, increases, until the tree is impacted.

With a relatively short runway, aborting the landing and going around is not an alternative.

Separately, if mixture did not stop the right engine, kill the mags, and close the fuel selector. They were all very fortunate that there was no fire.

I wonder who created the cumbersome iPad checklist?
 
StraightnLevel said:
That must be a terrible feeling to be pushing the right pedal as hard as you can while it's heading left, straight into a tree.
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It's hard to do what may be the only thing that can sometimes pull you out of that predicament - i.e. adding power (especially true if you're heading right) and creating some more effectiveness of the contol surfaces.

The closest I ever came to ground looping was that situation, well after landing and on the rollout with a student at the controls. It took close to full power but it did straighten us out.
 
geezer said:
Let us suppose the right brakes were not correctly assembled when the right strut was repaired.

A normal touchdown, brakes gently applied on both sides, the plane starts turning to the left, full right rudder is applied, along with more brakes both sides, but right is totally not working. As the plane slows, the rudders become useless, and the turn from brakes, left side only, increases, until the tree is impacted.

With a relatively short runway, aborting the landing and going around is not an alternative.

Separately, if mixture did not stop the right engine, kill the mags, and close the fuel selector. They were all very fortunate that there was no fire.

I wonder who created the cumbersome iPad checklist?
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I don't think this was a brake issue - it is pretty clear in the video that the tailwheel was not locked. That alone could easily be enough to start that accident sequence. Could have been forgotten or could have broken. Weak brakes and short grass runway give you no margin for error.
 
Fearless Tower said:
According to Barry Schiff, yes:

Lockheed 12-A Electra Junior

The memory of Trans World Airlines is alive and well This is more than an article about an airplane. It is also a love story.
www.aopa.org
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So seeing it spin around means it 1) wasn't locked or 2) locking mechanism was broken? I do not have a tailwheel endorsement but I understood you locked the tailwheel on takeoff and landing and unlocked to taxi? Am I correct?
 
jsstevens said:
So seeing it spin around means it 1) wasn't locked or 2) locking mechanism was broken? I do not have a tailwheel endorsement but I understood you locked the tailwheel on takeoff and landing and unlocked to taxi? Am I correct?
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That is correct. Just like on the DC-3 and Beech 18 that both pilots have flown.
 
I don't know about the Electra, but I have been told on the Beech 18, which is very similar, the props and wing can block the airflow over the tail in certain configurations and idle power. I've been told that is why you don't three point those aircraft or else risk loss of directional control. Could be what happened here, brought the tail down too early and lost rudder authority.
 
Man, there needs to be a professional speculator involved. Paging blancolirio
 
geezer said:
Let us suppose the right brakes were not correctly assembled when the right strut was repaired.

A normal touchdown, brakes gently applied on both sides, the plane starts turning to the left, full right rudder is applied, along with more brakes both sides, but right is totally not working. As the plane slows, the rudders become useless, and the turn from brakes, left side only, increases, until the tree is impacted.

With a relatively short runway, aborting the landing and going around is not an alternative.

Separately, if mixture did not stop the right engine, kill the mags, and close the fuel selector. They were all very fortunate that there was no fire.

I wonder who created the cumbersome iPad checklist?
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If you're veering left, applying more left brake would appear to be in error.
 
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Lindberg said:
If you're veering left, applying left more left break would appear to be in error.
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I can absolutely see this accident and the one where the Vision jet went into the drink being similar. You push the brake pedals, the right brake fails, and your instinct is to push the brake pedals harder. It takes a half second of rational thought (not instinctive reaction) to figure out that something's wrong and what worked all those times before isn't the solution this time. Kinda like the people who mistakenly hit the gas pedal instead of the brake and jam it to the floor trying to stop, all while the car accelerates madly...
 
kyleb said:
I can absolutely see this accident and the one where the Vision jet went into the drink being similar. You push the brake pedals, the right brake fails, and your instinct is to push the brake pedals harder. It takes a half second of rational thought (not instinctive reaction) to figure out that something's wrong and what worked all those times before isn't the solution this time. Kinda like the people who mistakenly hit the gas pedal instead of the brake and jam it to the floor trying to stop, all while the car accelerates madly...
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Yes, it could be that sort of error.
 
This accident was obviously cause by mixed airframe icing. Some of it vanilla, some of it chocolate.
 
Kyle N said:
Anyone know exactly where on the airfield the hangar and tree are? I was looking at Google Earth and it wasn't obvious to me.
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That tree stopped him from a head on with a hangar.
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kyleb said:
I can absolutely see this accident and the one where the Vision jet went into the drink being similar. You push the brake pedals, the right brake fails, and your instinct is to push the brake pedals harder. It takes a half second of rational thought (not instinctive reaction) to figure out that something's wrong and what worked all those times before isn't the solution this time. Kinda like the people who mistakenly hit the gas pedal instead of the brake and jam it to the floor trying to stop, all while the car accelerates madly...
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Note, too, that if you’re pushing both toe brake pedals and apply right rudder at the same time, you’ll likely increase left brake pressure due to the geometry of your legs & feet.
 
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