Colt filing for bankruptcy
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poadeleted21
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They're in an exceptionally business unfriendly state (Connecticut) and armed with Union labor. Whaddayaexpect?
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Bob Noel
Apparently Colt wasn't smart enough to dump Conn as a place to manufacture firearms (they should have gone somewhere where the cost of living was lower and the people in the state didn't have their heads up their <place where the sun don't shine> wrt firearms)
ClimbnSink
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Greg
Dumbnuts they deserve it. Wonder what the congress critters from ct did wrong?
bullwinkle
Pattern Altitude
Gosh, this is like the tenth time for Colt.
They stopped selling in any real volume to the consumer market and are about 100% reliant on Uncle Sugar. When he doesn't come through for them, they are screwed.
They stopped selling in any real volume to the consumer market and are about 100% reliant on Uncle Sugar. When he doesn't come through for them, they are screwed.
FredFenster
Pre-takeoff checklist
Yep. Tried to order a colt once, shop called me back after I left and said 9 month wait to get it. Guess that explains why they never have anything from colt in the case.
Cost of manufacturing and Conneticut has nothing to do with it, they failed to win a government contract, and they lost the civilian market to all the knock off ARs and 1911s as well as aftermarket parts suppliers. There are no other civilian market arms they make anymore. Colt failed to create new items to sell and relied on the popularity of their old product lines, then lost that market to the aftermarket clones who were building better equipment to their designs that no longer had patent protection.
The real money always came from military contracts though, and they failed to win the M4 contract to a company that operates in an even more expensive, higher taxed, higher waged, higher cost of energy, higher cost of land, country.
It was **** poor executive decision making (and compensation packages) that has bankrupt Colt, not Obama, not Connecticut, no, their own board did it to them. Hell, you could tell the management was slash and burning the company when they quit making revolvers. They ignored the civilian market and sold all that off and focused on military contracts and lost the game to a bigger competitor, FN.
This is simply how "Markets" work, they eat their own, Colt got eaten. According to the rules of capitalism, this is normal and necessary in order for someone to finally win. That's what happens when you set up a competitive rather than cooperative society, in the end, everyone but one is a loser.
The real money always came from military contracts though, and they failed to win the M4 contract to a company that operates in an even more expensive, higher taxed, higher waged, higher cost of energy, higher cost of land, country.
It was **** poor executive decision making (and compensation packages) that has bankrupt Colt, not Obama, not Connecticut, no, their own board did it to them. Hell, you could tell the management was slash and burning the company when they quit making revolvers. They ignored the civilian market and sold all that off and focused on military contracts and lost the game to a bigger competitor, FN.
This is simply how "Markets" work, they eat their own, Colt got eaten. According to the rules of capitalism, this is normal and necessary in order for someone to finally win. That's what happens when you set up a competitive rather than cooperative society, in the end, everyone but one is a loser.
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SixPapaCharlie
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Sixer
Not surprised since Obama took all the guns away.
It was only a matter of time.
It was only a matter of time.
denverpilot
Tied Down
No one but the real losers lost. Markets are bigger and more diverse than to only want one provider of any particular product, due to differences in opinion and taste. Colt just had nothing to offer the majority of their customers anymore. There is no "one winner" and won't be.
They ruled the roost selling AR copies to Law Enforcement for quite some time, but let that portion of the business eat the rest of the company. When that dried up, they had nothing left to offer.
There will never be one single firearms manufacturer, just like McDonalds can't ever kill all of the other fast food joints on the planet. There is no "one winner, everyone else loses" because customers and Markets are fickle.
It would seem that Colt's death actually highlights that. Name brand and history stand for absolutely nothing if you let the product line grow stale and the folk who want your product either already have one or can find a reasonable substitute.
Colt prices stayed high and they didn't innovate.
bflynn
Final Approach
Bankruptcy is nothing new to Colt. On the one hand *shrug*.
On the other, there is a question of why they lose money in a market where others do not. Answer is two sided - their costs must be higher and their products are priced higher. Is this corporate bloat? We've seen it before and it rots companies form the inside out.
As far as government contracts - Obama plans to shrink the Army further, so they just don't need to buy any new rifles right now. They didn't lose a contract so much as there wasn't one there.
My advice - get out of Konnecticut and move someplace that is more friendly to your product and where you can open a manufacturing plant that is less costly to operate. Increase the civilian line, including reproductions of a few famous old guns like the Peacemaker, US Army Calvary pistol and one of the shorter barrel revolvers. Aggressively cut costs across the company so it can be viable for the next hundred years. Offer a sales + shooting package where you can buy the gun and have an instructor work one on one with you to understand it and become proficient.
But they won't. The owners are content to get their profit and let the company falter. They'll go into C11 now and come out in 18 months a slightly leaner company and able to survive for another 15 years until the next bankruptcy.
poadeleted21
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They tried to move to FL. The union wasn't happy. Not sure if they succeeded in moving anything to FL.
EDIT: Apparently they did not http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-osceola-colt-ultimatum-20150114-story.html
I've seen it at other "defense" companies. They assume the gravy train would continue and there's no significant competition. Well, it's wrong on both counts. The defense market is under severe reduction. The bigger established companies are scrambling. The little niche companies are now finding the big guys are now going after contracts "too small" for them to deal with before. Big companies sometimes find they can retool themselves fast enough to win the small procurements.
So you are saying that all the people who had Colt in the stock/retirement portfolios are the real losers? They are the only ones out anything, the shareholders; executives won't even see a pay cut unless they close shop, then they will bail out with 'golden parachutes'. Nice to see that you believe that the people who invest like good little suckers are all the expendable losers in the country, and the Executive class are the winners.
The price and lack of innovation are exactly what sank Colt, and that is typical corporate raider tactic taught in MBA school.
BTW, I agree that those who invest in the stock market for financial security are the real losers in the world.
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Or a dozen other manufacturers. Heck, most Colt 1911s in private hands are loaded with aftermarket parts and gunsmith tuning. Pick up a Wilson and pick up a Colt, WTF, why would you buy a Colt?
N747JB
Final Approach
Funny, they can't make a profit on new guns, but some used Colts bring double or more than they sold for new?? I bought a "Python" a few months ago and several people have told me it's worth between $1500-2000. I can't imagine it costing over $7-800 new?
It sounds like Colt just misread the market and went for military/law enforcement weapons vs consumer firearms. The last 6+ years have been a great boom in firearms sales, probably the highest sales in history and they were on the sidelines with nothing to sell.
It sounds like Colt just misread the market and went for military/law enforcement weapons vs consumer firearms. The last 6+ years have been a great boom in firearms sales, probably the highest sales in history and they were on the sidelines with nothing to sell.
FN got the M4 contract, what there was of it. There will always be need for more rifles until mankind evolves.
Funny, they can't make a profit on new guns, but some used Colts bring double or more than they sold for new?? I bought a "Python" a few months ago and several people have told me it's worth between $1500-2000. I can't imagine it costing over $7-800 new?
It sounds like Colt just misread the market and went for military/law enforcement weapons vs consumer firearms. The last 6+ years have been a great boom in firearms sales, probably the highest sales in history and they were on the sidelines with nothing to sell.
Really, try to buy a "new" Python or Anaconda... go ahead, I'll wait.
FN is manufacturing the M4s in SC and selling them to the government for $642 a rifle, when Colt had the contract the price was over $1200 a rifle.
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Snorting his way across the USA
Colt's quality has started to go downhill about the mid 80's. I have both a Series '70 and a Series '80 MkVI, and they are both quite nicely made.
I don't know that Colt EVER made mass quantities of military AR's and 1911's for the government. Maybe that's a miss statement but at least they never had the market cornered. I've never had a Colt stamped issue 1911, and the majority of the issue 16A1's were not manufactured by Colt.
I don't know that Colt EVER made mass quantities of military AR's and 1911's for the government. Maybe that's a miss statement but at least they never had the market cornered. I've never had a Colt stamped issue 1911, and the majority of the issue 16A1's were not manufactured by Colt.
FastEddieB
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Fast Eddie B
As another data point...
http://www.nhbr.com/November-14-2014...ofits-plummet/
Though profits are down, Ruger is still making money*. S&W has been struggling for a long time for reasons similar to Colt's.
As an "aficionado", it's been a long time since any Colt has been on my radar. They are fine guns, but it's a crowded marketplace with others doing most of the innovation. And foreign companies like Bersa and Taurus are making competitive products at lower prices, and at the higher end companies like Glock and Sig Sauer seem to be the innovators.
*In the interest a full disclosure, I own a couple hundred shares of Ruger stock and am considering an LC9s.
http://www.nhbr.com/November-14-2014...ofits-plummet/
Though profits are down, Ruger is still making money*. S&W has been struggling for a long time for reasons similar to Colt's.
As an "aficionado", it's been a long time since any Colt has been on my radar. They are fine guns, but it's a crowded marketplace with others doing most of the innovation. And foreign companies like Bersa and Taurus are making competitive products at lower prices, and at the higher end companies like Glock and Sig Sauer seem to be the innovators.
*In the interest a full disclosure, I own a couple hundred shares of Ruger stock and am considering an LC9s.
OkieFlyer
En-Route
Rock Island Armory in the Philippines builds their 1911s using Colt tooling. It's just as much of a Colt as a Colt is, at less than half the price.
Ruger has not been without problems, but they are adaptive. They also have a broader base in having both consumer and substantial non-defense government sales. Amazing on a company that got founded and still to this day for much of it's business specializing in making copies of other manufacturer's guns.
An amusingly, all three to the "doing OK" companies you're making sells their own 1911 clones.
An amusingly, all three to the "doing OK" companies you're making sells their own 1911 clones.
FN also pays Belgian taxes on those sales. Colt could have built the rifles for the same cost, the CNC machines cost the same regardless, and they don't owe on the facility in Connecticut unless the execs ****ed that up. It was greed and poor management that sunk Colt, not anything else, not the union, not the state laws, that's all a bull**** cop out because you don't want to admit you've been duped all your lif by a system that has been lying to your face. That's why our whole country is collapsing.
German guy
Cleared for Takeoff
I always wanted to buy a Colt, because of the name. None of their products however appealed to me.
For me as a consumer, other companies offer much more compelling products. Quite a few of them exclusively serve the consumer market and seem to to pretty well. I therefore assume that the consumer market can't be that unattractive. A company with such a famous name might even be able to demand a few extra $$$ for its products, just like S&W.
For me as a consumer, other companies offer much more compelling products. Quite a few of them exclusively serve the consumer market and seem to to pretty well. I therefore assume that the consumer market can't be that unattractive. A company with such a famous name might even be able to demand a few extra $$$ for its products, just like S&W.
LoneAspen
Line Up and Wait
I have a .44 Magnum Anaconda with the 8" barrel. It actually got stolen in a home burglary many years ago but was recovered and returned to me about a year ago.
It was the most valuable thing stolen in the burglary, and I was ****ED because they don't make those anymore. So happy it was recovered, and it still looked like it did when it was stolen - no damage, and very clean.
Last I checked, I could probably sell it for up to $2000 but I'm keeping it.
It was the most valuable thing stolen in the burglary, and I was ****ED because they don't make those anymore. So happy it was recovered, and it still looked like it did when it was stolen - no damage, and very clean.
Last I checked, I could probably sell it for up to $2000 but I'm keeping it.
As compared to what alternatives? According to this analysis, stock market returns beat social security by 400%. Even investing social security taxes in US T-Bills via private accounts increases returns by 17%.
bflynn
Final Approach
Shot a rock island once - the gun felt loose and sloppy, like the parts didn't fit right. That might have been the individual gun.
EXACTLY!!!! We have been duped into believing in, and supporting with the lives of children, a system that provides us no good options, but you'll defend it to your last breath. Every investment you make profits the same people who own the system; through leverage of their old money, they control all the new money.
We don't have a Free Market economy, it is a lie, the Federal Reserve has a monopoly on the entire financial system, and the Federal Reserve through leveraged capital is a private family business, the richest family on Earth worth over a Trillion dollars, and they could give a flying **** about our best interest, we are just their servants, we aren't really worthy of anything.
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Snorting his way across the USA
Most of the government 1911's in service up to their replacement (probably all of them, for that matter) were manufactured during WWII. I've carried US&S, Remington, and Burroughs stamped pistols and they were all pretty much equivalent in fit and finish (parkerized, a bit sloppy, but functional.)
They're dated though. When I used to shoot in IPSC competition, my pistol of choice was a S&W Model 39, and I also have a 639 (stainless frame) for home defense. I'd probably go for a P226 if I was looking for a replacement today.
They're dated though. When I used to shoot in IPSC competition, my pistol of choice was a S&W Model 39, and I also have a 639 (stainless frame) for home defense. I'd probably go for a P226 if I was looking for a replacement today.
N747JB
Final Approach
Really, try to buy a "new" Python or Anaconda... go ahead, I'll wait.
That's kind of my point, people really want these guns, so why not manufacture them? It's not like the technology of a revolver has changed much in the last hundred years.
Maybe the manufacturing process, but the danged guns are pretty much the same as 100 years ago. 
Hawker800
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Daniel
Funny, they can't make a profit on new guns, but some used Colts bring double or more than they sold for new?? I bought a "Python" a few months ago and several people have told me it's worth between $1500-2000. I can't imagine it costing over $7-800 new?
It sounds like Colt just misread the market and went for military/law enforcement weapons vs consumer firearms. The last 6+ years have been a great boom in firearms sales, probably the highest sales in history and they were on the sidelines with nothing to sell.
I had two Pythons, paid just about $7-800 in the 1980's. I've seen them much higher than $2000 range today. Wished I'd have kept them. And in California, your chances of getting one are really reduced.
KSCessnaDriver
Pattern Altitude
That's kind of my point, people really want these guns, so why not manufacture them? It's not like the technology of a revolver has changed much in the last hundred years.
Because the labor to build them isn't there. And to get the labor to build them, the cost of the guns would go so high that all the internet types that say they would buy them, couldn't afford them.
Exactly. Colts 1911 offerings weren't anything special. The high end market has been moving towards Wilson, Dan Wesson and other makers. The low end market is using foreign built frames (not just Rock Island, Springfield uses frames from Brazil). Rock Island really set the low cost 1911 market on fire with all the offerings they have. 45ACP, 9mm, 10mm, 40 S&W, 380, 38 Super and 22TCM
That's kind of my point, people really want these guns, so why not manufacture them? It's not like the technology of a revolver has changed much in the last hundred years.
Likely they sold off the tooling to a Chinese manufacturer and don't want to tool back up. MBAs are some of the butt assed stupidest people I have ever met.
Anthony
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Well, they make some great 1911's, and where else are you going to get a Single Action Army revolver that is made in the U.S. Plus there's the horse on the side. The make great AR-15's also. I think for the money, Colt makes some of the best 1911's and AR's around.
Yes I do own Colt 1911's, and AR's and have had them for years of reliable service. As others have said, they need to move their production OUT OF CONNECTICUT, and get away from the UAW labor.
Anthony
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That's kind of my point, people really want these guns, so why not manufacture them? It's not like the technology of a revolver has changed much in the last hundred years.
The cost to manufacture them would require a price that would not be realistic.