Colt filing for bankruptcy

[deonb]

It does not infringe on one's right to keep and bear arms in any way? Albeit a small one.

Following that logic, just make it so you can't buy guns made anywhere. Still no second amendment issue?

That's not following the logic.

Here's another example.

I can't import Kudu meat from Africa or even a live Kudu. These things are freakin delicious, but you can't buy it. (Nothing really to do with diseases, the local beef industry just doesn't want competition.)

So using your "Following that logic" argument, this is one step away from banning people from eating food, right?

At least in the case of the AK, you can get together with KSCessnaDriver or someone like him, and buy his. So it's still actually completely legal to own or buy one - just not from Russia right now.

So, I have no sympathy for you. You have a way to get yours, I don't.

This is just the price you pay for giving special interest so much power in elections.

 

[Dav8or]

More likely: You can ONLY buy guns made by hand-picked crony crapitalist CEO's companies, all of whom happen to be 7-figure bundlers and donors to his O'ness' campaigns, presidential library, and eventual post-presidential foundation.

BTW, prices starts at $5k each, ammo is $250 per shell, and the waiting list is currently 6 years long.

"See, we're not anti-gun!"

Same with ammo. Can't ban guns, ok, we will just start banning ammunition.

Most likely, yes. The Democrats will likely take this tactic as best they can with taxes. They will try to drive the prices up and make ownership a hardship.

This will end up in the SCOTUS again. They will lose again. Artificially raising the price of arms very much infringes on the rights of lower income people to keep and bear arms. Heavily taxing, or making ammo unavailable is a means of deactivating an arms system.

The 2nd Amendment doesn't specifies "guns", or "ammo", but it pretty easy to argue that guns are an armament and that they are most likely what the founders had in mind. It's also easy to argue that the gun as an armament is a system that includes the ammunition. Without the ammunition, the gun is no longer armament and therefor the 2nd is being infringed.

They will try this and they will fail. In the mean time it will suck. Unfortunately, with American society running amok, shooting people in cold blood, there is going to be more and more support for the anti gun movement, including that of law enforcement, which in the eyes of some, will give the movement credibility and weight.

 

[Anthony]

I think the SCOTUS in the Heller or Miller decision said that restricting ammo would be considered infringement, and high taxes would be considered a restriction.

 

[Anthony]

I don't recall Russian guns being a big runaway hit like the SKS although the Makarovs were a good deal.

The Russian SKS's were very popular. I got both mine for $90 each, so they were competitive with the Chinese, and I think a little better, but that is subjective. The Maks were great deals too. Since they dried up, but the SKS, and Maks have breen steadily climbing in price.

 

[deonb]

The 2nd Amendment doesn't specifies "guns", or "ammo", but it pretty easy to argue that guns are an armament and that they are most likely what the founders had in mind.

The 2nd Amendment is selectively enforced all the time.

I fail to see how anybody can interpret that amendment in a way that it can be legal to own an AK, but not legal to own a M-388 or other TN with a blast+fallout radius that's less than your own property borders.

If you try to guess what the founders had in mind, you'll be stuck with muskets. So then you can guess at the intent which is the ability to stand up against a tyrannical government, but guns and ammo won't help you in that case without higher order armaments.

The siege on Waco would never have happened if Koresh had a M-388.

 

[N801BH]

The 2nd Amendment is selectively enforced all the time.

I fail to see how anybody can interpret that amendment in a way that it can be legal to own an AK, but not legal to own a M-388 or other TN with a blast+fallout radius that's less than your own property borders.

If you try to guess what the founders had in mind, you'll be stuck with muskets. So then you can guess at the intent which is the ability to stand up against a tyrannical government, but guns and ammo won't help you in that case without higher order armaments.

The siege on Waco would never have happened if Koresh had a M-388.

It would not have happened if Koresh had committed suicide a few years earlier.....

Clearly the guv is overstepping their bounds... BUT... David was ONE sick human being...

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Do I think these bans are politically motivated by anti gun groups? Yes and no. In the case of the Chinese guns, absolutely!! The anti gun crowd became terrified by the flood of super dirt cheap Chinese guns like the SKS. Anybody could afford them and people were buying them just for the hell of it. The Harbor Freight of guns and Americans can't get enough of cheap Chinese junk. We love it!!

In the case of the Russian ban, I'm not so sure. I don't recall Russian guns being a big runaway hit like the SKS although the Makarovs were a good deal. I think primarily the ban is to keep funds from getting to a struggling Russian arms industry in light of more recent Russian aggression. Secondarily, the anti gun crowd never met a banned gun they didn't like, so it's an added bonus.

Chinese guns weren't banned because they were cheap. Norinco was banned from selling guns to the US for (allegedly) bringing in numerous quantities of automatic weapons and missiles for sale to drug cartels and gangs. And partially to go along with the AWB.

Maybe you haven't been in the market lately, but over the last 4-5 years, Saiga AK's were selling like crazy. They were extremely affordable, quality, Russian built AK's. Up until the 2012 school shooting, they could easily be found for $300. Baikal shotguns, also were getting popular, are now banned.

Thankfully, MOLOT built firearms can still get in, so you can get a different AK pattern Russian AK. But they are built on RPK receivers (thicker & heavier).

 

[Dav8or]

The 2nd Amendment is selectively enforced all the time.

I fail to see how anybody can interpret that amendment in a way that it can be legal to own an AK, but not legal to own a M-388 or other TN with a blast+fallout radius that's less than your own property borders.

If you try to guess what the founders had in mind, you'll be stuck with muskets. So then you can guess at the intent which is the ability to stand up against a tyrannical government, but guns and ammo won't help you in that case without higher order armaments.

The siege on Waco would never have happened if Koresh had a M-388.

This is all true. We might assume the founders just meant that the 2nd Amendment just applies to muskets, but they also had cannon in those days. Did it include those?? My guess is it did include cannons in their minds, but I'm no constitutional scholar.

Waco wouldn't have happened if we didn't have a trigger happy Attorney General with a chip on her shoulder. Koresh and his followers could have been dealt with without burning the damn place down with people inside. I do agree that Koresh and company were making a last stand and reportedly lousy neighbors, but they could have been defeated, arrested and charged without so many fatalities.

The 2nd Amendment does come with unintended consequences. Insurgencies, gangs, political separatists, uprising and now cop killings. I think that the founders believed that if any one of these sort of armed uprisings had enough popular support to defeat the standing government, they deserved to survive. If you want the people to really rule, this sort of arrangement seems to make sense to me.

 

[Dav8or]

Chinese guns weren't banned because they were cheap. Norinco was banned from selling guns to the US for (allegedly) bringing in numerous quantities of automatic weapons and missiles for sale to drug cartels and gangs. And partially to go along with the AWB.

Yeah, see, the "allegedly" part backs me up. The Democrats in power at the time came up with a trumped up story because they couldn't have people with limited income getting access to guns, or people with money stockpiling. The key to the success of a socialist state is that the state holds all the power.

Maybe you haven't been in the market lately, but over the last 4-5 years, Saiga AK's were selling like crazy.

I admit. I have not really been in the market since the early '90s. Career, then aviation took over. I still have a locker full of long arms and handguns, but they don't come out to play much. Still, I very much believe in the 2nd Amendment, so I give money to the NRA and others and try to keep up. Things are very different now for sure. Still... somethings don't change.

Thankfully, MOLOT built firearms can still get in, so you can get a different AK pattern Russian AK. But they are built on RPK receivers (thicker & heavier).

And this is why this isn't a big fight with the government, just an annoyance.

 

[denverpilot]

The funny part is, by the time the anti-gun banners get around to doing it again, computerized metalworking gear will be cheap and found in many home garages.

Wired already did a piece on whether or not they could make an AR, and the reporter was a complete doofus and not mechanically inclined. He wasn't very successful, but anyone who can build an airplane can certainly build a gun.

Pandora's Box usually manages to make itself impossible to close, when it comes to any technology.

May not be legal but it'll still be done.

 

[Dav8or]

The funny part is, by the time the anti-gun banners get around to doing it again, computerized metalworking gear will be cheap and found in many home garages.

Wired already did a piece on whether or not they could make an AR, and the reporter was a complete doofus and not mechanically inclined. He wasn't very successful, but anyone who can build an airplane can certainly build a gun.

Pandora's Box usually manages to make itself impossible to close, when it comes to any technology.

May not be legal but it'll still be done.

The thing is, you don't even need computers to make functioning guns. There is a long tradition of hand made guns in the Philippians going back centuries. These guys make 1911s, revolvers and ARs with nothing more sophisticated than a drill press. Most of the work is done with files, bench grinders and sand paper.

My brother has traveled the Philippians and has visited some of these "illegal" gun factories near Cebu. My brother knows guns and is in manufacturing. He was very impressed at the level of refinement. Gun ownership is against the law there, but on a local level, it is tolerated by police. People carry them for protection and if they are confiscated by police, it's not a great loss as they are relatively cheap. People there that are into gun collecting, have copies of their genuine guns made so that if the police ever show up to confiscate their weapons, they hand them the copies and keep the real ones hidden.

Here's a video. The real meat of the story starts at 1:00 or so.

 

[Anthony]

Many guys can make a gun with the stuff they have in their garage. It's not that difficult. Now making a Phaser? That's hard.

 

[denverpilot]

The thing is, you don't even need computers to make functioning guns. There is a long tradition of hand made guns in the Philippians going back centuries. These guys make 1911s, revolvers and ARs with nothing more sophisticated than a drill press. Most of the work is done with files, bench grinders and sand paper.

My brother has traveled the Philippians and has visited some of these "illegal" gun factories near Cebu. My brother knows guns and is in manufacturing. He was very impressed at the level of refinement. Gun ownership is against the law there, but on a local level, it is tolerated by police. People carry them for protection and if they are confiscated by police, it's not a great loss as they are relatively cheap. People there that are into gun collecting, have copies of their genuine guns made so that if the police ever show up to confiscate their weapons, they hand them the copies and keep the real ones hidden.

Here's a video. The real meat of the story starts at 1:00 or so.

Completely agreed.

Was just pointing out that computers will make it a task about as hard as microwaving dinner, shortly. Push a few buttons and the parts will pop out.

Clean, Inspect, Assemble, test fire remotely, done.

All bans do is create black markets for stuff that's easily made. As your video shows.

And people lament the few ways around background checks now? LOL.

Definitely less than a generation away.

 

[Dav8or]

Completely agreed.

Was just pointing out that computers will make it a task about as hard as microwaving dinner, shortly. Push a few buttons and the parts will pop out.

Clean, Inspect, Assemble, test fire remotely, done.

All bans do is create black markets for stuff that's easily made. As your video shows.

And people lament the few ways around background checks now? LOL.

Definitely less than a generation away.

Yes, with CNC machining, 3D printing, 3D scanning and online file sharing, home gun manufacture will be rampant. The real revolution in home manufacture will happen when some clever software company will make a simple, low cost, or free to use program for noobies that talks to machines, both mills, lathes, 3D printers and takes info from 3D scanners. This new software will either become a standard, or easily translate and interface with all the other codes. Right now, the learning curve is way too steep and the software way too expensive for widespread adoption.

 

[N801BH]

Yes, with CNC machining, 3D printing, 3D scanning and online file sharing, home gun manufacture will be rampant. The real revolution in home manufacture will happen when some clever software company will make a simple, low cost, or free to use program for noobies that talks to machines, both mills, lathes, 3D printers and takes info from 3D scanners. This new software will either become a standard, or easily translate and interface with all the other codes. Right now, the learning curve is way too steep and the software way too expensive for widespread adoption.

Firearms will be the easy part......

Getting ammo is where the guv will add the stranglehold...

 

[Anthony]

Firearms will be the easy part......

Getting ammo is where the guv will add the stranglehold...

Oh, they will try everything. EPA lead bans, extreme taxation, etc. That's why we can't let a Democrat become President. They will pack to SCOTUS with more moonbat Progressives, hell bent on taking away guns, and ammo from the law abiding. They would uphold everything Hillary signs.

 

[Dav8or]

Firearms will be the easy part......

Getting ammo is where the guv will add the stranglehold...

I somewhat agree, but... There is unbelievable load of used brass out there and as soon as there is even a hint of ammo bans, or restrictions, people will hoard more. Reloading presses are everywhere. Primers will be a *****, but I bet you that this and the powder issue will be solved by the internet.

Remember Kirk was able to make a cannon with what he find on the ground!