Cleared for take off

azpilot

azpilot

Line Up and Wait
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azpilot
I saw Sully tonight. I went with my wife and her friend. All three of us really enjoyed it.

I do have a question though. The first line in the movie is, 'Cactus 1549, Runway 4, cleared for takeoff'. Sully responds, 'Cleared for takeoff, Cactus 1549". It really bugged me that they left off the' runway 4' in Sully's response back to tower.

So, here's the question, I know that now when you transmit your takeoff clearance back to tower, you have to read back the runway and your tail number in one transmission, but was that the case in 2009? I didn't start flight training really until 2014.

It looks like they got so many details right. It seems strange that they would miss this detail.
 
Nope, they didn't read back runways back then.

And glocks make a click sound when you pull back the hammer, cops don't chamber a round until the soundtrack gets serious, and Harleys drive 60 mph on the beach with road tires too. :D
 
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On the actual transcript they read back their position and hold rwy 4 instruction.

Keep in mind, the movie sought to recreate what DID happen, with artistic license... Not necessarily what SHOULD have happened
korben88 said:
Nope, they didn't read back runways back then.

And glocks make a click sound when you pull back the hammer, cops don't chamber a round until the soundtrack gets serious, and Harleys drive 60 mph on the beach with road tires too. :D
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My Glock is pretty quiet when I pull the hammer back. You should get your Glock Armorer to look into that.
 
azpilot said:
'Cactus 1549, Runway 4, cleared for takeoff'. Sully responds, 'Cleared for takeoff, Cactus 1549". It really bugged me that they left off the' runway 4' in Sully's response back to tower.
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They mimicked the actual transcript. Sully never read back his runway #.
 
Sully didn't acknowledge the instruction to contact departure with his aircraft ID. He also didn't use the name of the facility when he checked in with departure.

Don't think I'll lose sleep over either one of those.
 
korben88 said:
Nope, they didn't read back runways back then.

And glocks make a click sound when you pull back the hammer, cops don't chamber a round until the soundtrack gets serious, and Harleys drive 60 mph on the beach with road tires too. :D
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Do you know when/why that changed?
 
Here's the Jepp approach chart

hudson-miracle-approach-chart.jpg
 
And then there's this

 

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Also, for those that have seen it, this is the very first line in the movie. I can't tell you how many times I've heard tower controllers have to go through a takeoff clearance 2 or 3 times because someone doesn't read back the clearance correctly. I mostly fly at an airport with lots of student pilots and lots of training flights.

It was a really great movie. The ntsb stuff seemed overly dramatic, but the actual flight portions seemed very accurate, and after watching the recreation video that was posted here with the actual audio, I can say that it was VERY realistic.
 
azpilot said:
I saw Sully tonight. I went with my wife and her friend. All three of us really enjoyed it.

I do have a question though. The first line in the movie is, 'Cactus 1549, Runway 4, cleared for takeoff'. Sully responds, 'Cleared for takeoff, Cactus 1549". It really bugged me that they left off the' runway 4' in Sully's response back to tower.

So, here's the question, I know that now when you transmit your takeoff clearance back to tower, you have to read back the runway and your tail number in one transmission, but was that the case in 2009? I didn't start flight training really until 2014.

It looks like they got so many details right. It seems strange that they would miss this detail.
Click to expand...

There is no such requirement. You have to read back "hold short" instructions and LAHSO clearances (AIM 4-3-11) and those portions of inflight clearances containing headings or altitudes, but it is perfectly legal for a pilot to acknowledge a takeoff clearance by beginning the takeoff roll.

Bob Gardner
 
I've not seen the movie, but in the REAL EVENT, he was in position and hold on the runway when the takeoff clearance is issued. That sort of wipes out any ambiguity. Here's the section of the CVR transcirpt:

15:20:37 TWR Cactus fifteen forty nine, LaGuardia runway four position and hold. traffic to land three one.
15:20:40 RDO-2 position and hold runway 4. Cactus fifteen forty nine.

15:24:54 TWR Cactus fifteen forty nine runway four clear for takeoff.
15:24:56.7 RDO-1 Cactus fifteen forty nine clear for takeoff.

As pointed out, there's no requirement to read back anything here, just acknowledge the transmission. "Cactus 1549" would have been sufficient.
 
bobmrg said:
There is no such requirement.
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I'm relieved to hear that, as I was kinda getting worried when I saw this thread and realized I don't say that. I went hunting for where this requirement is stated and can't find it anywhere.

By the time I get takeoff clearance, I've already spoken with and confirmed with Ground about which runway is in use, and I've already told Tower which runway I am at when I announce that I'm ready to depart. I've never seen any reason to repeat the runway # yet again after takeoff clearance is issued, and don't really see what benefit that would offer at that point. It just seems redundant... unnecessary clutter on the frequency.

The only thing I say back after given takeoff clearance is: N-Number, "Cleared for Takeoff", and then I repeat whatever heading or direction they gave me to fly. If they tell me about traffic to be aware of, then I will acknowledge that as well.
 
I'd venture to guess that repeating the runway you're cleared to use is much more important than repeating direction of flight and/or traffic advisories.

I'd be "Bugdestroyer 666, cleared for takeoff, runway one four"
 
"Wilco", "roger", "affirmative" or other words or remarks with your acft ID.
 
flyingron said:
I've not seen the movie, but in the REAL EVENT, he was in position and hold on the runway when the takeoff clearance is issued. That sort of wipes out any ambiguity. Here's the section of the CVR transcirpt:

15:20:37 TWR Cactus fifteen forty nine, LaGuardia runway four position and hold. traffic to land three one.
15:20:40 RDO-2 position and hold runway 4. Cactus fifteen forty nine.

15:24:54 TWR Cactus fifteen forty nine runway four clear for takeoff.
15:24:56.7 RDO-1 Cactus fifteen forty nine clear for takeoff.

As pointed out, there's no requirement to read back anything here, just acknowledge the transmission. "Cactus 1549" would have been sufficient.
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These guys were all screwed up! Don't they know it's "line up and wait!"
 
rolivi said:
I'd venture to guess that repeating the runway you're cleared to use is much more important than repeating direction of flight and/or traffic advisories.

I'd be "Bugdestroyer 666, cleared for takeoff, runway one four"
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But why? Acknowledging direction seems more important to me at that point because my airport is so busy and I want them to know I understand which way I'm safe to venture. I've already gone back and forth with them several times about which runway is in use and which one I am at, plus they can see me from the tower - so why keep beating a dead horse? What additional benefit does it offer to repeat yet again the runway #? (I'm asking seriously, not smartassssy)
 
I'll be corrected shortly, but the takeoff clearance including runway is as important as reading back all holding and crossing clearances. It also puts that runway assignment top of mind for confirming the painted number and verifying your DG is in agreement.
 
If I'm already lined up and waiting on the departure runway, I won't repeat it. If they're giving it to me from holding short, I'll read it back. So basically, I read back the runway before I pass the hold short line, either to line up or to take off.
 
flyingron said:
I know that's a joke, but LUAW didn't come into existance in the US until 20 months after Catus 1549.
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Position and Hold certainly existed long before we yielded to the current international instruction.
 
Sluggo63 said:
If I'm already lined up and waiting on the departure runway, I won't repeat it. If they're giving it to me from holding short, I'll read it back. So basically, I read back the runway before I pass the hold short line, either to line up or to take off.
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I initially misread your post and responded that I agree, but I still don't get the point of reading it back again. I guess I'll start doing it though, since it seems to be the norm.
 
rolivi said:
I'll be corrected shortly, but the takeoff clearance including runway is as important as reading back all holding and crossing clearances. It also puts that runway assignment top of mind for confirming the painted number and verifying your DG is in agreement.
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The FAA disagrees with you. ATC is required to get holding clearances. Everything else is pretty much optional.

After the Comair 5191 flight when the plane took off on a wrong (too short and unlit) runway there was a call for changes. I suggested that they paint the runway numbers in big digits on the end of the runway, put in signs with the runway numbers on the edge of the taxiway, and put a dial in the cockpit that told the pilot which way the aircraft was pointed so he could compare that with what runway he thought he was no.
 
rolivi said:
Position and Hold certainly existed long before we yielded to the current international instruction.
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"Position and hold" probably sounds as strange to new pilots as "line up and wait" did when it was first adopted in the US.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
I can see the runway # in big white letters in front of me as I roll out.
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Of only pilots could read. I was over-flying the field a couple days ago and a pilot said they were taking off runway 32 as I saw them roll over the numbers. They were actually on 14.

I tend to be cautious of people flying around and always try to get visuals on them.
 
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BIG WHITE CHARACTERS. (lest we forget 26L, 26C, and 26R)

Fixed your fix to that for you.
 
flyingron said:
The FAA disagrees with you. ATC is required to get holding clearances. Everything else is pretty much optional.

After the Comair 5191 flight when the plane took off on a wrong (too short and unlit) runway there was a call for changes. I suggested that they paint the runway numbers in big digits on the end of the runway, put in signs with the runway numbers on the edge of the taxiway, and put a dial in the cockpit that told the pilot which way the aircraft was pointed so he could compare that with what runway he thought he was no.
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:idea:

:rofl:
 
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