Cleared for take off

flyingron said:
The FAA disagrees with you. ATC is required to get holding clearances. Everything else is pretty much optional.

After the Comair 5191 flight when the plane took off on a wrong (too short and unlit) runway there was a call for changes. I suggested that they paint the runway numbers in big digits on the end of the runway, put in signs with the runway numbers on the edge of the taxiway, and put a dial in the cockpit that told the pilot which way the aircraft was pointed so he could compare that with what runway he thought he was no.
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All that stuff doesn't always help. I was once cleared to taxi to 36, taxied to 35, reported my position at the end of 35, was cleared to take off on 36, and proceeded to take off on 36. Apparently, they'd renumbered the runway, but hadn't changed any of the signs.... Just a trick they play on transients to make them question their sanity and hearing. :rolleyes:
 
Also, I don't mean to be a d*ck, and this is not directed at the OP, but these guys landed an airliner in a river, with both engines out, 155 on board with zero serious injuries. Is it really relevant at all if they read back the runway number to the controller before takeoff?
 
TRocket said:
Also, I don't mean to be a d*ck, and this is not directed at the OP, but these guys landed an airliner in a river, with both engines out, 155 on board with zero serious injuries. Is it really relevant at all if they read back the runway number to the controller before takeoff?
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Nope, it's not relevant at all. They did an amazing job and are to be commended for saving all of those lives. This is just the one place I could come to talk about something that I thought was quirky. It caught my attention because it was the first words spoken in the movie, and I am pretty sure I have heard the tower controllers get after pilots multiple times for not reading back the runway number when they acknowledge their takeoff clearance. I tried to talk to my wife about it, but she rolled her eyes at me just like she does whenever I try to talk about airplane stuff.

I was expecting one or two comments, but as typically happens here, we are on comment 44 of people arguing over the correct procedure of how to do something in an airplane.
 
bobmrg said:
There is no such requirement. You have to read back "hold short" instructions and LAHSO clearances (AIM 4-3-11) and those portions of inflight clearances containing headings or altitudes, but it is perfectly legal for a pilot to acknowledge a takeoff clearance by beginning the takeoff roll.

Bob Gardner
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I can always count on you to know the exact details of what the requirements. Thank you Bob. :)
 
azpilot said:
Nope, it's not relevant at all. They did an amazing job and are to be commended for saving all of those lives. This is just the one place I could come to talk about something that I thought was quirky. It caught my attention because it was the first words spoken in the movie, and I am pretty sure I have heard the tower controllers get after pilots multiple times for not reading back the runway number when they acknowledge their takeoff clearance. I tried to talk to my wife about it, but she rolled her eyes at me just like she does whenever I try to talk about airplane stuff.

I was expecting one or two comments, but as typically happens here, we are on comment 44 of people arguing over the correct procedure of how to do something in an airplane.
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Reading Sully's book right now and he quotes the ATC talk as exactly as it was in the movie - with no runway # read back. So, it wasn't an oops in the film, just the way it actually happened.
 
azpilot said:
Nope, it's not relevant at all. They did an amazing job and are to be commended for saving all of those lives. This is just the one place I could come to talk about something that I thought was quirky. It caught my attention because it was the first words spoken in the movie, and I am pretty sure I have heard the tower controllers get after pilots multiple times for not reading back the runway number when they acknowledge their takeoff clearance. I tried to talk to my wife about it, but she rolled her eyes at me just like she does whenever I try to talk about airplane stuff.

I was expecting one or two comments, but as typically happens here, we are on comment 44 of people arguing over the correct procedure of how to do something in an airplane.
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Just because a controller wants a read back on a runway takeoff, doesn't mean it's required in writing. There are AIM recommendations, ATC requirements (runway hold short / LAHSO), and then any local letters the facility has. For instance, where my brother works, they require a minimum read back of an IFR clearance on the ground to include the altitude read back. Not sure if that letter still exists or not.

So basically, there isn't much standardized and leaves a lot to pilot / controller preference. The only things not read back in the above vid, that ATC requires, is the use of aircraft ID with the freq change acknowledgment. He also didn't use the ID of the ATC unit (departure) but ATC isn't going to care about that stuff.
 
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Cajun_Flyer said:
I can see the runway # in big white letters in front of me as I roll out.
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Even at night? The DG check doesn't work for parallel runways.

You will eventually find the need for an intersection takeoff, and then you might read back the intersection as well. Tower doesn't always look at the right aircraft or use the right tail number, and that's an additional opportunity to correct.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
I don't fly at night.
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I know you're a new pilot, but you will in winter, or you're going to get stuck due to darkness.

Also, runway numbers are not always easy to see as you turn on, especially in the context of a long displaced threshold. I've seen a few as long as 3000 feet.
 
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I already said I'm gonna start repeating the runway # since it's apparently the norm. I still don't really get the point of the quadruple + redundancy, but apparently I'm alone on that.
 
That's why I have landing lights (double as taxi lights). Does a great job of lighting up those runway numbers either from the ground or the air. Those signs are all internally lit at most places that have them.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
I already said I'm gonna start repeating the runway # since it's apparently the norm. I still don't really get the point of the quadruple + redundancy, but apparently I'm alone on that.
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It's a technique, not a requirement, but some on here like to push their techniques on others. It's good to hear different points of view, but decide for yourself whether you want to do it or not.
 
Everskyward said:
It's a technique, not a requirement, but some on here like to push their techniques on others. It's good to hear different points of view, but decide for yourself whether you want to do it or not.
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One time, I heard an old SP arguing with an IP about his technique- "don't try and make your technique become my standard." I've tried to apply that advice in my own instruction. I might teach technique but if it isn't required by regulation or any SOP, I don't try to enforce my own technique on anyone.
 
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