Choosing a "public benefit" flying organization

Jim K

Jim K

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Richard Digits
Looking for my next "mission"...
I see there's three organizations offering patient flights in the midwest:
https://palservices.org/
https://lifelinepilots.org/
https://angelflightcentral.org/

I can't figure out why there's three, or what recommends one over the others. Lifeline has the lowest experience requirements at 250 PIC, 400 for AFC, and 500 for PALS. PALS mentions having a fuel reimbursement waiver for empty legs; no mention of that from the others. While that's not a deal breaker, it certainly would make it easier to pick up more missions.

I only know two people doing it, one of whom is @NealRomeoGolf , both fly for Lifeline. Neal, care to cheerlead for your organization?

Anyone flying for or know anything about the others?
 
A few guys out of FGU do Angel Flights a lot. It seems like a pretty good organization from what I understand.
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
Do they pay for fuel? I thought the whole thing was a charitable contribution.

Do all require IR?
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PALS has a waiver to allow fuel reimbursement at .30c/mile on positioning legs. Requires IR and 2nd class medical. The others don't mention it in their guidelines that I could find.

I think Lifeline is the only one who will accept VFR pilots.
 
I've been flying for Lifeline since 2005. Being where you are you are going to have no shortage of flights to pick up.
 
EdFred said:
I've been flying for Lifeline since 2005. Being where you are you are going to have no shortage of flights to pick up.
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Well that makes three. What made you choose them?
 
I am a pilot for PALS Skyhope and they are a great organization ( I am also a board member) - The fuel reimbursement is done via an exemption letter from the FAA so there are no issues with private pilots receiving reimbursement, but there are some requirements that need to be met both in terms of pilot experience as well as how missions are planned. But they aren't onerous in any way. I am happy to talk offline more about the organization. Regardless of which organization you choose, volunteer flying is some of the most rewarding flying you can do. The patients are wonderful and the are genuinely appreciative of all of us taking time out of our busy lives to help them get to the treatment they need. Even if you are able to donate one flight a year, it really makes a big difference in peoples' lives.
 
What are people being treated for that there’s a need for all of this patient transportation? If you live east of the Mississippi River, there’s a 90+% chance that there’s a major medical center within 3 hours’ drive of your house.

My experience with these things — pardon my hardened cynicism — is that pilots are looking for a way to fly for less and patients are looking for a free ride to see some quack who claims to know something about, say, Lyme disease that “the medical establishment doesn’t want you to know.”
 
I’ve done some Angel Flight (AFC) stuff. Frankly, it’s been a mixed experience. For some people in fairly remote parts of TX with unusual illnesses and not a lot of resources, I’ve felt like I was doing a lot of good. For one or two others, where they could have driven from the Austin area to Houston for their appointment and they clearly had the means to do so, I felt like I was a “free air Uber” - and often sorta taken for granted. I suspect that’s true for all such organizations. I must admit to screening who I’ll consider flying because of that - and my screening process (location, diagnosis) is not scientific.

The one group I always try to help with are CASA (Court-Appointed Special Advocates) volunteers. They need to visit their kid clients who have moved and they do it on their own dime. My wife is a CASA, so there’s that connection.
 

Just watch this video….

also, the majority of pilots are 100% out of pocket and take time from work and other pursuits to help others.
 
crashton said:

Just watch this video….

also, the majority of pilots are 100% out of pocket and take time from work and other pursuits to help others.
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They’re out of pocket, but they get tax write-offs.

As for this woman, it’s a great story. But it doesn’t answer my question. She left Jacksonville, FL, home of a major medical center, to fly to somewhere in New York. Along the way, she passed by Emory, USC, UNC, Duke, UVA, MCV, Johns Hopkins, Drexel, Penn, and others. Was there really a good reason to leave Jacksonville at all, much less skip over all of those other places on the way?

And even if she had something rare that only some group in New York treats, how many such cases can there be, that there’s all of this call for “public benefit flying?”
 
@OneCharlieTango sounds like this just isn’t for you. Still, there are a lot of people who see value in doing this and @Jim K i hope you find an Organziation like PALS that you want to work with….again, I’m available if you have any questions and can hook you up with our pilot support team.
 
Being from the Chicago area I was curious about something like this. But like @OneCharlieTango didn't think there would be a need with all of the facilities local to me.
 
crashton said:
@OneCharlieTango sounds like this just isn’t for you. Still, there are a lot of people who see value in doing this and @Jim K i hope you find an Organziation like PALS that you want to work with….again, I’m available if you have any questions and can hook you up with our pilot support team.
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I am interested in the answer to his question. Why pass all of those medical facilities?
 
I agree it seems odd for patients to fly over several other very reputable places to get where they want for treatment, although there are some pretty rare conditions with sub-sub-subspecialists at only certain places - but that seems like the exception rather than the rule.

What really has me scratching my head is moving pets. If it was uniting an owner with one lost through Katrina or something, that makes sense. But to spend avgas moving mutts to a new owner who’s never met them except on line just seems more like rationalizing the flying than Angel Flight ever could.

Yep - I know I’ll be flamed…
 
Llewtrah381 said:
I agree it seems odd for patients to fly over several other very reputable places to get where they want for treatment, although there are some pretty rare conditions with sub-sub-subspecialists at only certain places - but that seems like the exception rather than the rule.

What really has me scratching my head is moving pets. If it was uniting an owner with one lost through Katrina or something, that makes sense. But to spend avgas moving mutts to a new owner who’s never met them except on line just seems more like rationalizing the flying than Angel Flight ever could.

Yep - I know I’ll be flamed…
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I guess don't really understand the dog flights either, but if you're going flying anyway, there's certainly no harm in it. I'm much more interested in helping people. I don't claim to know all the ins and outs, but I do know that traveling long distances for specialist treatment is not uncommon. I had a friend who had to go to Ohio several times to an eye specialist who probably saved his vision. Children's ailments seem to also be a common reason to travel, and those seem to me like they'd be the most gratifying to help with.

I honestly have some of the same questions about the necessity of some of these flights, but the people who do it seem to feel it's quite worthwhile. This video I thought was compelling; one thing they mention I hadn't considered is the difficulty of commercial air travel for people with weakened immune systems or medical devices.
 
I will give you an example - I flew a little girl a few times from Tampa to Miami for treatment. She had a very rare type of cancer that there were only a few specialists who were researching which was generally fatal by age 10. Of course Moffit is in Tampa, not far, but her best hope for survival was in Miami.

so instead of her father driving her over six hours each way, and having to endure an overnight in a hotel, because of pilots like all of you, her father could take her brother and sister to school in the morning, go to TMB for her treatment and consult, and she would be back in her bed that evening. her parents could provide the family some semblance of a normal life in spite of what was going on.

the vast majority of VPO flights from any organization are changing lives like this.

and no, she didn’t end up surviving.

there’s a reason why thousands of pilots are so passionate about doing this. If you doubt, sign up with a VPO and just do one.
 
We (LifeLine Pilots) do a lot of flights to Mayo and St. Jude. Would anyone care to counter that they are some of the best at what they do?

I have flown someone to the top brain specialist in the country that deals with Chiari and tethered cord. That doctor is in Rhode Island. I've flown someone to MD Anderson in Houston, which has some of the top cancer docs in the world. We get a lot of flights up to Cancer Treatment Centers of America in Chicago. We're talking people with stage 3 and 4. People that need treatment through medical trials. This isn't your run of the mill doctor in St. Louis or Milwaukee.

Jim, right now LifeLine Pilots is outpacing Angel Flight Central in flight requests. LifeLine is on a resurgence after kind of floundering in the 2010's. It's been around over 40 years and we're doing the most legs in history. The current staff is top notch and they really appreciate the pilots. I will probably be appointed to the Board soon since they keep asking.

If you want to come over and meet the staff I can arrange it for you. Great people. Great purpose. You won't regret it.
 
Jim K said:
I can't figure out why there's three,
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There are three for the same reason that you can donate clothes and other items to Goodwill, or the Salvation Army, or the city's homeless shelter, or a local Veteran's organization, etc. Perhaps due to different focuses, perhaps because more than one group of people want to help, and think they have a better way to do it than an existing organization. No reason to limit it to, say, one charity in a region.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
What are people being treated for that there’s a need for all of this patient transportation? If you live east of the Mississippi River, there’s a 90+% chance that there’s a major medical center within 3 hours’ drive of your house.

My experience with these things — pardon my hardened cynicism — is that pilots are looking for a way to fly for less and patients are looking for a free ride to see some quack who claims to know something about, say, Lyme disease that “the medical establishment doesn’t want you to know.”
Click to expand...

Llewtrah381 said:
I agree it seems odd for patients to fly over several other very reputable places to get where they want for treatment, although there are some pretty rare conditions with sub-sub-subspecialists at only certain places - but that seems like the exception rather than the rule.

What really has me scratching my head is moving pets. If it was uniting an owner with one lost through Katrina or something, that makes sense. But to spend avgas moving mutts to a new owner who’s never met them except on line just seems more like rationalizing the flying than Angel Flight ever could.

Yep - I know I’ll be flamed…
Click to expand...


If there was a human being who was in dire need of a flight for medical reasons, I’d fly that person long before animals. However, I have done plenty of pilots n paws flights, mainly because I like animals more than people for the most part. They literally don’t know their being helped and that makes me happy. However, there are a ton of flight requests that are completely bogus and I simply pass those up. There’s one org around here that has gone from an occasional request to using PnP as their business model. And for that they can go eff themselves. But on occasion I will see a legitimate request from them and in the end it’s all about the people (or animals) you’re helping, not about anything else. I actually do my best not to look too much into the situation itself…..if someone says “I need help” then if I can help I will. I won’t question it if I feel it’s an honest request. I’ve gone on PnP flights that people asked me about the situation and I said honestly I don’t know, they said they needed help and that’s all that mattered. Yes, there are stupid requests and yes some people take advantage of it. Welcome to the real world. If you think you can help, help. If not, move on.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
I agree it seems odd for patients to fly over several other very reputable places to get where they want for treatment, although there are some pretty rare conditions with sub-sub-subspecialists at only certain places - but that seems like the exception rather than the rule.

What really has me scratching my head is moving pets. If it was uniting an owner with one lost through Katrina or something, that makes sense. But to spend avgas moving mutts to a new owner who’s never met them except on line just seems more like rationalizing the flying than Angel Flight ever could.

Yep - I know I’ll be flamed…
Click to expand...

No flame here.

I haven't flown an Angel Flight in over 10 years, but did find the flights to be valuable and appreciated. It seemed like the transports were for good reason. Perhaps it has changed now and there is abuse in the system, I don't know.

The dogs though - I used to fly them too, again up until about 10 years ago. I loved it. It was valuable - most of the time, it was from puppy mills getting shut down and needing to get the dogs somewhere that there was a hope of them being adopted - so they'd have various flights to rescue organizations around the country. I'd carry as many dogs as could fit.

However, I gradually saw it change from that into missions that were decidedly more questionable, or even outright (perhaps unintentional) abuse of the volunteers. I literally saw requests to transport one cat across the country. Or one dog from Oklahoma to Seattle. Things like that. Some of these were very obviously (as in, clearly stated in the request) just moving a pet from one family member to another. No thanks, we shouldn't be volunteering our time and often literally a thousand dollars or more to move Fluffy to your parents. Or the other thing that made me go "hmm" - situations like "we have a rescue dog we need to get from Oklahoma to New York so that it can be adopted". Really? The person in New York couldn't find a closer dog to adopt?

Look, if I'm loading up the plane with as many dogs as will fit so that they can find foster homes, that's cool and being a good human. If I'm transporting one dog at a time, that's at best an inefficient use of time and money, and at worst an abuse of volunteer's big heartedness.
 
On flying dogs, I have 4 coordinators that I will fly for and that's about it. They are almost always getting abused or abandoned dogs out of Texas (major population control problem) to established rescues in Chicago, Milwaukee or the quad cities. I now prefer doing the people flights. I enjoy talking to them and don't miss the smell of dogs.
 
Many shelter dogs (most when we were looking) in the northeast are transported from kill shelters in the south. Our girl is from TN. Obviously most are transported by road, but still. If there are homes for these poor dogs and pilots willing to fly them, why not?
 
I don’t mean to be obtuse, but what are these “rare cancers” that people have, that can only be treated at the WFMC* or similar? If it isn’t for surgery, the doctors at WFMC can and will consult electronically. Such-and-such a medication works just as well in Rochester, New York as it does in Rochester, Minnesota.

It’s different if patients travel to participate in a study. That’s the sort of thing that makes one center different from another. But big studies for cancer treatments often involve multiple centers in order to get significant data.

I recently had major surgery. I understand the desire to scour the world for The Best. But it’s generally best to stay as close to home as possible.

I’ll also admit to a bias, partly owing to a good friend whose kid had a popular “disease” that doesn’t actually exist, and who traveled far and often to be treated by a doctor who was “literate.”




*World Famous Mayo Clinic.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
I don’t mean to be obtuse, but what are these “rare cancers” that people have, that can only be treated at the WFMC* or similar? If it isn’t for surgery, the doctors at WFMC can and will consult electronically. Such-and-such a medication works just as well in Rochester, New York as it does in Rochester, Minnesota.

It’s different if patients travel to participate in a study. That’s the sort of thing that makes one center different from another. But big studies for cancer treatments often involve multiple centers in order to get significant data.

I recently had major surgery. I understand the desire to scour the world for The Best. But it’s generally best to stay as close to home as possible.

I’ll also admit to a bias, partly owing to a good friend whose kid had a popular “disease” that doesn’t actually exist, and who traveled far and often to be treated by a doctor who was “literate.”




*World Famous Mayo Clinic.
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Ask @denverpilot all about why he chose to go all the way to Mayo.

There are just some cancers that Joe Schmo doctor is not going to handle as well as someone who does nothing but study them.

I'm not sure where your cynicism is coming from but sounds like you need a hug. People don't want to be sick. People don't want to be poked and prodded all day long 800 miles from home. My sister has cancer. She isn't flying all over to places. But there are people that need it to live. I can't make you understand it, but I witness it with each and every flight.
 
Why AngelFlight? Couple, she’s very ill, in rural Kansas, but the research facility is in Denver. 8 hr drive each way. 2-3 hr flight in my cherokee. On their schedule, no hassles at the airport, a Ground Angel to pick them up at the GA airport and drop them at the door of the hospital.

Every month or more often.

That’s why.

As for the pets, I fly for 2 rescue organizations in Colorado that are reputable and vet the transfers. Usually 2-4 dogs. Never had a problem with a dog, either.
 
I've flown 50+ Angel Flight missions over a number of years and have never felt the system was being abused. A couple of CASA flights, but 90% of the rest were cancer patients and most were going to MD Anderson in Houston. MDA is a world-renowned cancer center doing cutting edge treatments. I'm not going to question why a patient in some little West Texas, or East Texas, town needs to go to Houston rather than have their cancer treatment in, say, Abilene, or San Antonio, or anywhere else. Most patients live in smaller towns out in the boonies without convenient access to air transportation (or can't afford repeated airline trips to Houston) and often, because of their chemo, are simply not up to the 6-8 hour drive to treatment.

About the tax deduction: that went away with Trump's "tax cut" that limited deductions to $10k. That doesn't go far in a high property tax state like Texas.
 
DoubleD said:
About the tax deduction: that went away with Trump's "tax cut" that limited deductions to $10k. That doesn't go far in a high property tax state like Texas.
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That’s not true. I take multiple 10s of thousands in charitable contribution deductions each year.
 
@OneCharlieTango

In many cases, the patients being flown for cancer treatment already went through a local center, went through chemo, etc., and relapsed. They may have done this more than once. They don't have good local options. As was said, no one wants to have treatment far from home.

The clinical trials are often not that big and do need to be done in the very controlled setting of a single center, by a single treatment team, to be certain the results of the trial are valid.

In some cases the patient could possibly drive or have ground transport, but that can be extremely physically draining for someone who is in the middle of a chemo treatment (8 to 10 hrs each way in a car vs. 3-4 hrs in a plane). In fact, that is often the patient's back up plan in case the planned flight has to cancel for weather or a mechanical issue.

I've flown several missions for Angel Flight West and it was absolutely the most rewarding flying I've done. I hope to get back to it in the next year or two.
 
DoubleD said:
I've flown 50+ Angel Flight missions over a number of years and have never felt the system was being abused. A couple of CASA flights, but 90% of the rest were cancer patients and most were going to MD Anderson in Houston. MDA is a world-renowned cancer center doing cutting edge treatments. I'm not going to question why a patient in some little West Texas, or East Texas, town needs to go to Houston rather than have their cancer treatment in, say, Abilene, or San Antonio, or anywhere else. Most patients live in smaller towns out in the boonies without convenient access to air transportation (or can't afford repeated airline trips to Houston) and often, because of their chemo, are simply not up to the 6-8 hour drive to treatment.

About the tax deduction: that went away with Trump's "tax cut" that limited deductions to $10k. That doesn't go far in a high property tax state like Texas.
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I'm pretty sure that limted the deduction of state income tax to 10k, not the total deductions. Hell the standard deduction is more than 10k.
 
EdFred said:
The worst flights are the final flights. At least with all the other flights its like "OK they are going somewhere to get better." But when you know it's a final flight, its rough.
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I've only been a member a year and have already had two patients pass away since I've flown them. It's very sobering.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
I don’t mean to be obtuse, but what are these “rare cancers” that people have, that can only be treated at the WFMC* or similar?
*World Famous Mayo Clinic.
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I flew a LifeLine flight FROM Mayo toward Ohio. Dad was a doc there, mom was a nurse, and little kid already had had 18 surgeries. These are edge cases where you bring the patient to the experts. Believe me, they certainly didn’t want to fly the little guy if they didn’t have to, and they knew where the best of the best were located.

Kid was awesome, BTW. Probably the toughest human I’ll ever meet.


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My very cynical $0.02

I don't really trust anyone. Period.

if you, or god forbid your child, has cancer or a similar potentially terminal illness and (1) you think that treatment far away is better or your last / only hope (2) and I have the means to help . . .

I don't really care what's available locally or closer to you than the request.

If they think that's their best (or maybe only?) option . . . Who am I to second guess.

I hope to never face that situation. People get very desperate facing an end of life event and I hope someone would help me pursue my last shot. I'd help if I could. I wouldn't second guess whether I had been taken.

If it was a strain on me to help - I wouldn't help.
 
Does anyone here have experience with “Veterans Airlift Command?”
https://www.veteransairlift.org/

On their home page they state, “The VAC provides free air transportation to post 9/11 combat wounded and their families for medical and other compassionate purposes through a national network of volunteer aircraft owners and pilots.”
 
Llewtrah381 said:
What really has me scratching my head is moving pets. If it was uniting an owner with one lost through Katrina or something, that makes sense. But to spend avgas moving mutts to a new owner who’s never met them except on line just seems more like rationalizing the flying than Angel Flight ever could.

Yep - I know I’ll be flamed…
Click to expand...

In most cases, the animals are being moved from kill shelters to non-kill rescue organizations or directly to their forever home.

Not moving them for convenience. You are literally saving their lives.
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
My very cynical $0.02

I don't really trust anyone. Period.

if you, or god forbid your child, has cancer or a similar potentially terminal illness and (1) you think that treatment far away is better or your last / only hope (2) and I have the means to help . . .

I don't really care what's available locally or closer to you than the request.

If they think that's their best (or maybe only?) option . . . Who am I to second guess.

I hope to never face that situation. People get very desperate facing an end of life event and I hope someone would help me pursue my last shot. I'd help if I could. I wouldn't second guess whether I had been taken.
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You don’t sound very cynical to me. I can understand what you’re saying and admire you for it.

I’m a doctor. People lie to me and talk down to me about their health all day long. Friends tell me they’re traveling far away in order to be treated for some malady like chronic Lyme disease or autistic enterocolitis, when such things don’t really exist. If I question them about it, I’m dismissed as being part of the “medical establishment.” The techniques of quacks haven’t changed in centuries.

I understand the desire for far-away cancer treatment and sympathize in a cautious way (though I’m not especially a fan of the incredibly well marketed MD Anderson). But everyone I know here has done Angel Flights for nonexistent diseases, validating the diseases rather than the sufferers.
 
@OneCharlieTango I hear what you are saying. I'm sure the situations you describe exist.

I haven't had any experience with these organizations (I don't own a plane and haven't flown enough) but I do have a soft spot for (1) people with cancer and (2) limited resources.

Several in my dad's family (2nd youngest of 8) have died of cancer. Two didn't have insurance and went through the VA for treatment which seemed, in hindsight, not great treatment (I was a kid but listening to the adults there were opportunities to extend life that weren't offered by the VA).

I'd help someone like that or a child chase a dream of remission.

And I am a skeptic. Just saying if I can help in those situations chase hope I'd give them a shot.

Treatment for Lyme disease . . . Outside of Chicago (Northwestern, Rush, University of Chicago, Loyola etc are right here . . . ) I agree seems a stretch.
 
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