Can't use Experimentals in some places??

455 Bravo Uniform

455 Bravo Uniform

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455 Bravo Uniform
Looking at 91.319 (c), are ALL Experimental (i.e., homebuilds for the purpose of my question) prohibited from operating in "densely populated areas" and "congested airways" (whatever that means?)?

(d) Also, does this mean an Experimental can never be an IFR aircraft?

Thanks.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Looking at 91.319 (c), are ALL Experimental (i.e., homebuilds for the purpose of my question) prohibited from operating in "densely populated areas" and "congested airways" (whatever that means?)?

(d) Also, does this mean an Experimental can never be an IFR aircraft?

Thanks.
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It all comes down to the operating limitations issued with a particular aircraft and the category where the Experimental is registered (Racing, Exhibition, Amateur Built, etc). But the "gross" answer to your question is that homebuilt Experimentals can go anywhere a certified aircraft can, as long as they are appropriately equipped.
 
Flymeariver said:
This is what I failed to understand until last year. A friend had recommended a Fuji to me to buy...but I was under the impression a "experimental" can't be flown IFR so i was not interested..but like you state--its all how they are equipped. If only I had known that and taken the deal...plane was a steal at 20k
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A Fuji (if it is the Japanese 4 seat T34) is probably Experimental Exhibition, not Experimental, Amateur Built. Experimental Exhibition has a more restrictive set of requirements.
 
kyleb said:
A Fuji (if it is the Japanese 4 seat T34) is probably Experimental Exhibition, not Experimental, Amateur Built. Experimental Exhibition has a more restrictive set of requirements.
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yes that makes sense. Apparently there are some IFR Fuji out there...but I just missed it. The one I have flown is bare bones but the one that was for sale was quite loaded and come to find out is IFR certified.

BTW: Im glad to hear someone else knows what a Fuji is :) There are very few flying out there these days.
 
the only restriction I can recall with experimental is commercial ops. Otherwise, I think they pretty much go anywhere certified planes can go.
 
rbridges said:
the only restriction I can recall with experimental is commercial ops. Otherwise, I think they pretty much go anywhere certified planes can go.
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Correct, but they apparently can be used for transition training.
 
My operating limitations prohibit operating over congested areas except for takeoff and landing or words to that effect. (There is a "standard" wording for operating limitations that changes every decade or so.)

In practice, there seems to be a tendency to not be to literal in the enforcement of that.

The limitations on IFR typically say that the aircraft has to be equipped with...
 
OkieAviator said:
Correct, but they apparently can be used for transition training.
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You can borrow any EAB for transition training. However, the FAA mandates that you cannot "rent" an experimental for transition training unless that particular airplane is registered for transition training. Not sure what that entails, but there are very, very few experimentals you can actually rent for transition training.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
My operating limitations prohibit operating over congested areas except for takeoff and landing or words to that effect. (There is a "standard" wording for operating limitations that changes every decade or so.)
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Curious...

Does it not go on to say "Unless at an altitude that, should an engine fail, permits a landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the ground"?

Or something similar?

Mine does, and really just brings the limitation into line with "Minimum Safe Altitude - Anywhere" from part 91.

See #9 below, which seems to modify the absolute language of #8 above it:

8421801462_5591a73265_c.jpg
 
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I've never heard any discretion of what a "congested airway" is. About the only "congested airway" I've ever been in runs from RIPON to OSH and it wouldn't be congested if it wasn't full of experimentals.
 
Look at your Phase II limitations. #2 thru #7 are not included, so once you've completed Phase I, you can disregard those.
 
no, limitation #3 in the phase 2 part states except for take off and landing.

I would get them updated, it is an easy process and makes you completely legal.

bob
 
OK here's the wording from my OPLIMs I received back in Apr 2015 which is verbatim out of 8130.2G (yes I know there's a 2H, but the Washington FSDO is still referencing the 2G verbiage):

(6) This aircraft is prohibited from operating in congested airways or over densely populated areas unless directed by air traffic control, or unless sufficient altitude is maintained to effect a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons or property on the ground.
Note: This limitation is applicable to the aircraft after it has satisfactorily completed all requirements for phase I flight testing, has the appropriate endorsement in the aircraft logbook and maintenance records, and is operating in phase II.
(7) This aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only.
(8) After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 14 CFR § 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only.
(9) Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used under 14 CFR § 91.205 must be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of 14 CFR part 91. Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the aircraft logbook and maintenance records

Basically what this says is if properly equipped and maintained you can operate an E-AB pretty much like you would any aircraft once you are in Phase II. Case in point, I just completed a 790nm IFR trip from Florida to Virginia this afternoon in my RV-10.

As far as training is concerned, if you own it you can train in it to include an initial rating (ie Private or Sport Pilot). With a LODA, a CFI can conduct training in their E-AB aircraft and charge for it.
 
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