Call briefer before every flight?

I use fltplan.com and print a trip kit off before any cross country, and then when I get my flight loaded into Garmin Pilot it automatically pulls a DUATS briefing to cover my tail as well. In flight? XM can tell me far more than a briefer ...

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Weathermeister is what I use. Records all your activity.:wink2:
 
That's got to require some dedication. I only live 5 minutes from the airport and I still fantasize about owning a grass strip.

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So what are the alternative "legal" ways to get a briefing?
Unless you are a part 135 operator or the like. There's no such thing as an "illegal" briefing.
 
FYI!!!!!

Before someone gets them self in trouble, fltplan is only QICP weather for REGISTERED users, once you are registered with your name, addy etc, click weather then you will see QICP on the top, click that and get your weather.

If you just go on without logging in its NOT QICP, the weather page should say "FAA Certified QICP Weather' on the top

Flt_Plan.jpg


Flt_Plan2.jpg
 
I check for NOTAMS and TFRs before any flight, unless it is just around the pattern. I just call, while driving to the airport.

I used to do that until I noticed that I sound uninformed. Now I gather my data online, file via Foreflight, skim through (still working on my technique) then call when I get to the airport, while I'm sitting down and comfortable (reasonably) where I can really understand what the breifer is telling me.

...and BTW- for those of you who shun the SFRA ---we get our own number to FSS and I routinely get the same set of people on the phone. I know who I can prod for more data and who will "just the facts".
 
Yes, In Foreflight you log into DUATS with your user name and password just like you do when you're on a PC

But they also tell you that a DUATS account isn't required. Somewhere in my upgrades it lost my DUATS login data, so I have no idea what it's using for me now.:dunno:
 
This. You may very well get routed to a briefer hundreds of miles from you that has no clue. Even worse for us in the DC area, the briefer may have no clue how to file an SFRA flight plan (VFR). I've had two times now where they had to transfer me to someone else (additional delay), and one time where they said "shouldn't you be calling the special number for Leesburg?" (that's only required for an FRZ flight plan).

Even worse, sometimes flight plans filed with FSS don't make it into the system. I was left holding at Brooke (BRV) one day headed back into the SFRA when the briefer either filed the wrong type of flight plan or it didn't make it into the system.



It is, but I've noted on any number of occasions that it either screws up the order of multi-part NOTAMS or drops some parts altogether. That appears to be an issue in the parsing of the briefing. Noted multiple times with the DC area TFR/SFRA NOTAMS. I've also recently started getting "Route not found (NULL)" errors when trying to bring up a route I just used - end up recreating the route. FF is good, but it's far from perfect.

Being in the SFRA, I do use briefers more often than some. Usually when I'm out at the hangar & decide to "go" but don't have/can't pull up an internet connection on the spot. I'll already have the briefing, just need the flight plan filed. Yeah, I can set up a hotspot with a cellphone, but sometimes have spotty signal meaning it can take longer than a call. A call saves some time on a final TFR check.

See my post where I mentioned the SFRA breifers. I don't have that experience at all.
 
My home airport is 100 mile drive. So, I do not mind calling and getting a standard briefing every time I drive. Helps me pass the time.

Dude, you need an airplane to get to your airplane:rofl:
 
See my post where I mentioned the SFRA breifers. I don't have that experience at all.

Technically the number directly to Leesburg is supposed to be reserved for FRZ flight plans - only. There are no "special" or direct SFRA numbers (other than the aforementioned Leesburg number). Yes, a lot of SFRA folks call that number, but one is really supposed to call the regular LM FSS number.

If you call the Leesburg number, yes, you will get the same briefers every time.
 
For anyone who uses DUATS to get the briefing, make sure that you actually read the 54 pages of idle verbiage before you just save away that email. I had the experience that a TFR (for blue angels practice) that was 2 miles past my destination became active around my arrival time. This information was hidden in a 2-liner between 'windsock dimly lit at Mc Neal, Kanbraska' and 'faded runway markings at Lake Millborg, someotherflatstate'. The fact that the duats briefing gets archived will work against you if you bust a tfr or land on a closed runway. Not obtaining 'all the relevant infomation' is one thing, obtaining it and ignoring it another.
 
I havent called a briefer in several years. There are much better and easier ways to get a legal briefing.
Such as?

Several individuals in this thread made this statement and not bothered to explain what they actually use for a legal briefing. Guys, please. Inquiring minds wish to know. Just type, "But I use this and that". The sentence would be even shorter, and actually carry information.

BTW, I should find that thread at PoA where a dude obtained DUATS briefing and then violated an invisible TFR. It went on for pages: suspicions and accusations that he did not read it right, that his computer was broken, testimonies of DUATS being wildly inaccurate (albeit not ending in TFR bust) etc. etc.
 
I call for TFRs if I'm going to go somewhere VFR. Just flew from KMVY to KTEB VFR yesterday and I called.

Otherwise it's fltplan.com only.
 
But they also tell you that a DUATS account isn't required. Somewhere in my upgrades it lost my DUATS login data, so I have no idea what it's using for me now.:dunno:

If you don't have it set in the configuration, it uses a bulk account from Foreflight.

The possible problem with that is proving you got a briefing, so hang on to those e-mails they send...

Or just enter your DUAT login info again under Settings.
 
I prefer calling the briefer and getting exactly what I want. I might not do it for a local flight on a CAVU day, but it never hurts to check up on unexpected TFRs. Phone is pretty easy to operate and very quick.
 
I prefer calling the briefer and getting exactly what I want. I might not do it for a local flight on a CAVU day, but it never hurts to check up on unexpected TFRs. Phone is pretty easy to operate and very quick.

Having pertinent NOTAMS omitted is what you wanted?
 
In my training I was taught/required to call the briefer before every flight. I've since become so comfortable with my routine of checking wx, tfr's and notams that it's just a repeat of what I already know when I call the briefer. So I a, wondering how many of you call the briefer before every flight, or some flights, or never?

For a local flight:

Start with Weatherbug (forcast and radar maps)

Go to ADDS digital aviaion weather next, prog charts, metars, TAF's, winds aloft, PIREPS, AIRMETS, SIGMETS, etc.

Foreflight/DUATS to have it on record I checked, to have NOTAMS and TFR's

Garmin 696 with XM WX for in-flight stuff and TFR's

For longer flights in areas I'm unfamilar with: I suck it up and call.

I'm surprised I didn't see anyone mention ADDS aviation weather.

Gene
 
I'm surprised I didn't see anyone mention ADDS aviation weather.

Gene
At your service! I rely mostly on ADDS for weather info. But I also get a "legal" CYA briefing whenever I'm going on a XC out of the immediate area. Usually NOT involving a briefer BTW. However there are times that I have to, such as when a flight plan filed through Foreflight fails to go through.

But thanks to DUATS on the iPad, it's a rarity now that I actually talk to FSS.
 
Such as?

Several individuals in this thread made this statement and not bothered to explain what they actually use for a legal briefing. Guys, please. Inquiring minds wish to know. Just type, "But I use this and that". The sentence would be even shorter, and actually carry information.

BTW, I should find that thread at PoA where a dude obtained DUATS briefing and then violated an invisible TFR. It went on for pages: suspicions and accusations that he did not read it right, that his computer was broken, testimonies of DUATS being wildly inaccurate (albeit not ending in TFR bust) etc. etc.

This is a long quote from Weathermeister and not sure if this is the answer you're looking for.

"Is getting a briefing on Weathermeister considered legal as far as the FAA is concerned?"
Simply stated: Yes.
Believe it or not, Federal Aviation Regulations actually do not specify where or how you get your preflight weather briefings. Let's look at FAR 91.103, which is the sole regulation that provides guidance on this topic. It specifies what we as pilots are required to do before each flight:

§ 91.103 Preflight action.
Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight. This information must include—
(a) For a flight under IFR or a flight not in the vicinity of an airport, weather reports and forecasts, fuel requirements, alternatives available if the planned flight cannot be completed, and any known traffic delays of which the pilot in command has been advised by ATC;
(b) For any flight, runway lengths at airports of intended use, and the following takeoff and landing distance information:
(1) For civil aircraft for which an approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual containing takeoff and landing distance data is required, the takeoff and landing distance data contained therein; and
(2) For civil aircraft other than those specified in paragraph (b)(1) of this section, other reliable information appropriate to the aircraft, relating to aircraft performance under expected values of airport elevation and runway slope, aircraft gross weight, and wind and temperature.

Ironically, 91.103 doesn't even mention the word "briefing" per se, or Flight Service, or anything of that nature. That sure leaves an awful lot to interpretation, doesn't it?
We as pilots have been led to believe that a phone call to FSS for a standard briefing is the only true way to be "legal," yet there is not a single regulation in the FARs that mentions anything about this! The regs don't help to prove this common assumption true...or false.
As you might imagine, this question of legality comes up all the time. We have spent quite a bit of time discussing this with the FSDO. To be specific, Mr. Matt Galica at the FSDO in Louisville, KY has been the resource we have found most helpful. After a long and very informative conversation with Matt, this is what we have learned...
The fact that 91.103 is ambiguous or open-ended is intentional. The FAA does not want to prescribe exactly where or how you obtain your weather information...merely that you do need to obtain it. Mr. Galica discussed the intention of the regulation being what's important, rather than the specifics. The FAA's intention is obviously to make sure pilots are well-informed in order to make safe decisions. We don't want any surprises or unintended challenges when flying. We do our best to eliminate as many unknowns as we possibly can.
Despite the FAA not spelling out how you get your weather info, there needs to be accountability. In the case of an accident or incident, we as pilots may need to prove that we actually did obtain the "weather reports and forecasts" per 91.103. Should the need arise, how can we prove this?
Mr. Galica pointed out FSS and DUATS as examples of services that log your briefing. After the fact, there are records maintained for some period of time that serve as proof that you did (or didn't) in fact get a preflight weather briefing. There are numerous sites out there that don't log your briefing...and if you rely on them solely, you'll have no way of proving that you complied with 91.103. By using a site that logs your briefing, you can prove compliance.
All of your Weathermeister briefings are logged and archived for a period of at least 30 days (briefing requests are logged for at least 90 days). Should you ever need to prove compliance with 91.103, we here at Weathermeister can provide proof that you did in fact get a briefing.
The FAA has a program for certifying online services that provide meteorological data via the internet, and it's called QICP (Qualified Internet Communications Provider). The criteria center around reliability, accessibility, and security. Weathermeister is in the process of applying for QICP certification, we have all the required pieces in place (we have for quite some time now), and we hope to have the certification in late 2012. For what it's worth, the QICP requirement for archival is merely 15 days, and as we mentioned, Weathermeister far exceeds that by maintaining a complete archive of all briefing transcripts for no less than 30 days (briefing requests are logged for at least 90 days).
To sum up, in essence the FAA leaves it up to you. If you as pilot in command believe you have obtained all the information you need to complete the flight safely and successfully, and you can prove that you did, then you are in compliance with 91.103.
 
As others have said, I get my weather from online sources. I call the FSS to check for TFR's and airport/runway closure notams.
 
I always call for a briefing. I like to talk to a human, it allows me to ask questions about the briefing before it's over. How many times have I heard a briefer tell me that the forecast weather is not shaping up to be as forecast. I've had the briefer tell me that his confidence in the dictated computer weather could be wrong. When I was looking for a good alternate, I just ask the briefer which direction from my destination is the best weather and then look in that direction.
 
So is fltplan.com a legal brief? It uses my DUATS info. So does garmin Pilot.

Yes its QICP with a logged in fltplan....if you filed it..the wx brief is on record...you cant go wrong with it (unless you dont read it )!....Garmin Pilot does it thru DUATS pretty much same thing.
 
LMAO!!! Awesome.



When I preflight, I get a Duats briefing. Then I call FSS and get the TFRs and Notams again. Then I call my destination airport manager and ask them whats going on. Then just in case the briefer and I are both incompetant or a TFR/Notam pops up after I depart, I call FSS every 15 minutes in flight. I also call every control tower on my route and solicit information from them, which is a back up since I already am using flight following. When I land, I file a NASA report stating if I violated any FARs it was accidental. This way I totally max out the expense for tax payer to protect my butt on every flight.
 
I always call for a briefing. I like to talk to a human, it allows me to ask questions about the briefing before it's over. How many times have I heard a briefer tell me that the forecast weather is not shaping up to be as forecast. I've had the briefer tell me that his confidence in the dictated computer weather could be wrong. When I was looking for a good alternate, I just ask the briefer which direction from my destination is the best weather and then look in that direction.

You forgot that you use a digital audio recorder of all your Comms in flight, and that you leave HIWAS VORs playing for the full three hours while you're not talking to ATC or AFSS. ;)
 
Yes its QICP with a logged in fltplan....if you filed it..the wx brief is on record...you cant go wrong with it (unless you dont read it )!....Garmin Pilot does it thru DUATS pretty much same thing.

Make sure you tell someone to get that information to the NTSB if you were to crash. They routinely only check with DUATS, DUAT and AFSS on whether you obtained a briefing. Only if they have an indication that the pilot obtained his weather from somewhere else (e.g. FBO personnel states that the pilot used the WSI terminal in the lobby prior to departing, flight department director tells them that they use ACME briefings), they go to the respective vendor to obtain a trace of what information was given.

You may well have obtained all the relevant information prior to your flight, unless the FAA/NTSB receives information to the contrary, they will list 'no evidence of the pilot receiving a weather briefing could be found'. Of course, this only matters if you are dead, just one of those 'dont look dumb in the report' kind of things.
 
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So long as you can prove you checked, it's all good. I call, because I don't have a computer at my hangar and I want my tail number on those tapes. They usually don't tell me anything I don't already know, but it's official. Anything happens, at least I checked.

I can examine any number of on-line sources, but unless I can prove I examined them, I don't think they're legal in the FAA's eyes. If it's a piece of software that records your dial number or send you an E-mail, that may be sufficient, since you have some proof.

I tend to know ally he relevant facts about the weather before I ever call. The call is just about following regulations for me.
 
Make sure you tell someone to get that information to the NTSB if you were to crash. They routinely only check with DUATS, DUAT and AFSS on whether you obtained a briefing. Only if they have an indication that the pilot obtained his weather from somewhere else (e.g. FBO personnel states that the pilot used the WSI terminal in the lobby prior to departing, flight department director tells them that they use ACME briefings), they go to the respective vendor to obtain a trace of what information was given.

You may well have obtained all the relevant information prior to your flight, unless the FAA/NTSB receives information to the contrary, they will list 'no evidence of the pilot receiving a weather briefing could be found'. Of course, this only matters if you are dead, just one of those 'dont look dumb in the report' kind of things.

The briefing is saved until you delete it from your account....its about a 4 page document on average...all you have to do is tell the Feds you used fltplan.com if its an issue...I usually print them out for a cross country flight.
 
Make sure you tell someone to get that information to the NTSB if you were to crash. They routinely only check with DUATS, DUAT and AFSS on whether you obtained a briefing. Only if they have an indication that the pilot obtained his weather from somewhere else (e.g. FBO personnel states that the pilot used the WSI terminal in the lobby prior to departing, flight department director tells them that they use ACME briefings), they go to the respective vendor to obtain a trace of what information was given.

You may well have obtained all the relevant information prior to your flight, unless the FAA/NTSB receives information to the contrary, they will list 'no evidence of the pilot receiving a weather briefing could be found'. Of course, this only matters if you are dead, just one of those 'dont look dumb in the report' kind of things.

The briefing is saved until you delete it from your account....its about a 4 page document on average...all you have to do is tell the Feds you used fltplan.com if its an issue...I usually print them out for a cross country flight.

Can't do that if it was a really bad crash.
 
For anyone who uses DUATS to get the briefing, make sure that you actually read the 54 pages of idle verbiage before you just save away that email. I had the experience that a TFR (for blue angels practice) that was 2 miles past my destination became active around my arrival time. This information was hidden in a 2-liner between 'windsock dimly lit at Mc Neal, Kanbraska' and 'faded runway markings at Lake Millborg, someotherflatstate'. The fact that the duats briefing gets archived will work against you if you bust a tfr or land on a closed runway.

You would think that as important as TFR's are (at least to us pilots), the FAA could make it easier to find them.
 
You would think that as important as TFR's are (at least to us pilots), the FAA could make it easier to find them.

That is one of the things in Inhofes pilots bill of rights legislation to repair the broken notam system. I know there are icao conventions that prescribe what has to be notamed and how the notams have to be formatted, but there should be a way to order them by importance. The biggies like TFRs, aerodrome and runway closures should be in one group and 'personnel with blue hats working on the xyz ramp mo-fri 1000h CDT to 1015h CDT' together with 'light sock frangible pole inop' in a different group.
 
When I preflight, I get a Duats briefing. Then I call FSS and get the TFRs and Notams again. Then I call my destination airport manager and ask them whats going on. Then just in case the briefer and I are both incompetant or a TFR/Notam pops up after I depart, I call FSS every 15 minutes in flight. I also call every control tower on my route and solicit information from them, which is a back up since I already am using flight following. When I land, I file a NASA report stating if I violated any FARs it was accidental. This way I totally max out the expense for tax payer to protect my butt on every flight.

I literally laughed out loud at this. I guess all that communication would prevent you from becoming board on a long XC. ;)


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You forgot that you use a digital audio recorder of all your Comms in flight, and that you leave HIWAS VORs playing for the full three hours while you're not talking to ATC or AFSS. ;)

No, don't do any of that stuff!!
 
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