C172 versus Volvo SUV @ Northwest Regional

wabower said:
This rule isn't about dings and dents, it's about the security-theater mentality of an idiotic government agency that continually fails to grasp the problems and implements ineffective solutions.

If somebody intends to wreak havoc on a GA ramp, they don't wait at the little box for a gate code, they just drive through the chain-link gate.
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Well said, Wayne.

I really love KCGI. Security codes and/or badges are required to get in "the front door" but there's no fence whatsoever around the other 90% of the airport. Someone could drive their car off of southbound I-55 and right down runway 28 if they chose to do so.

It's a friggin' joke.

And the airport has commercial service.
 
Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

weilke said:
So because other airports dont do a good job in protecting their airside from 'unqualified' vehicles, it is excusable ?
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No, I wasn't saying that was a great idea. All I was saying is that even though I've only visited a couple dozen airports in my brief flying experience, I've been to at least one place that makes it easy for unfamiliar drivers to get on the ramp.

The comment I responded to was, "You can't just let people who are not familiar with airport operations drive on airport property." Um, apparently you can, 'cause I've seen it.
 
KDAL had such a case last year when some nut-case drove through a gate and led a police chase around the airport. Nothing was damaged, but the security ninnies were aghast. KADS where I'm based is partly city-owned and partly privately-owned property. To access my hangar, I must enter a code in a silly-ass chain-link gate, drive through and then stop and wait for the gate to close. Once inside the perimeter fence, I'm still on private property but the only barriers to the remainder of the airport are white lines on the taxiways defining airport property. I can be fined $500 for failing to wait for the gate to close, or a similar amount for driving on the city-owned portion of the ramps and taxiways, but there's nothing to prevent me from doing so but a strip of white paint.

Aha, some would say, but you're a hangar tenant an airplane owner and therefore somewhat less likely to do that, so this policy provides adequate security to the airport and justifies the need for the gate. Which is an idiotic conclusion, since a high percentage of the hangars in my complex are leased by people who store cars or other property in them, or use them as a location for construction and other non-aviation businesses. Most of them think all singles are Piper Cubs and all jets are Lears, and couldn't pick a 172 out of a line-up.

Further, every delivery service driver and who-knows-who-else in the area knows the gate codes because some of the aviation businesses are land-locked and the only way to their business is through one of the gates. I always get a warm and fuzzy feeling from the additional layer of safety when the gate closes behind me.

timwinters said:
Well said, Wayne.

I really love KCGI. Security codes and/or badges are required to get in "the front door" but there's no fence whatsoever around the other 90% of the airport. Someone could drive their car off of southbound I-55 and right down runway 28 if they chose to do so.

It's a friggin' joke.

And the airport has commercial service.
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timwinters said:
I really love KCGI. Security codes and/or badges are required to get in "the front door" but there's no fence whatsoever around the other 90% of the airport. Someone could drive their car off of southbound I-55 and right down runway 28 if they chose to do so.
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The fence is there because there was OPM available to erect it.

A fence without a road behind it, sensors/cameras and guards will only stop an attacker who forgot his wire-cutters.
 
Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

Jim_R said:
No, I wasn't saying that was a great idea. All I was saying is that even though I've only visited a couple dozen airports in my brief flying experience, I've been to at least one place that makes it easy for unfamiliar drivers to get on the ramp.

The comment I responded to was, "You can't just let people who are not familiar with airport operations drive on airport property." Um, apparently you can, 'cause I've seen it.
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Whoever posted 'you can't allow' should have said 'you shouldn't allow'.

And no, I dont want just anyone who feels like it to drive around in the movement area. The experience at my current base suggests that most people are smart enough to understand standard 'no entry', 'pilots and aircrew only' and 'aircraft have right of way' signs.
 
Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

Jim_R said:
Says who?

I recently flew into RBD and used the Ambassador FBO. When my ride came to pick me up, they pushed a button at the gate, which rang the line guy's cell phone. He pushed a button and the gate opened, and my buddy (who knows nothing about planes or airports) drove through the gate which empties directly onto the ramp area. He had to navigate around a number of parked planes (without any guidance from a line guy or anyone else) to pull up in front of the hangar where I was waiting for him. (He wasn't even sure which direction to head until I happened to see his car in the distance, and called his cell phone to give him directions!)
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That's CRAZY! How in the world did he know to not run into those parked airplanes? :rolleyes:
 
hummm....student pilot in left seat, setting up for landing....pilot never saw SUV approaching from right. Probably never knew what happened til after the incident. Good thing it wasn't a delivery truck, UPS truck, etc.
 
Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

Jim_R said:
No, I wasn't saying that was a great idea. All I was saying is that even though I've only visited a couple dozen airports in my brief flying experience, I've been to at least one place that makes it easy for unfamiliar drivers to get on the ramp.

The comment I responded to was, "You can't just let people who are not familiar with airport operations drive on airport property." Um, apparently you can, 'cause I've seen it.
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:confused: Why should they make it difficult? If they have a reason to be there you give them the pertinent safety briefing of where to go and what to watch for and let them in. No need to make it difficult, that's one of the beauties of GA, we don't have to over react to security theater everywhere.
 
Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

weilke said:
Whoever posted 'you can't allow' should have said 'you shouldn't allow'.

And no, I dont want just anyone who feels like it to drive around in the movement area. The experience at my current base suggests that most people are smart enough to understand standard 'no entry', 'pilots and aircrew only' and 'aircraft have right of way' signs.
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Often escort is provided for those unfamiliar or incompetent, but one of the privileges that should come with the pilots license is the one to be able to drive or walk onto any GA ramp unescorted. Used to be fun to go to airports and walk hangars, tough to do these days unless you fly in.
 
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Henning said:
Often escort is provided for those unfamiliar or incompetent, but one of the privileges that should come with the pilots license is the one to be able to drive or walk onto any GA ramp unescorted. Used to be fun to go to airports and walk hangars, tough to do these days unless you fly in.
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Agreed, it should. To that extent, I would gladly accept paying more than $2 for my ticket and to get a photo, biometric data and a chip on it. Any airport that takes federal money AND has an access control system would have to give unescorted access to the GA ramp to a holder of such a credential.
 
I've read about half of this thread (yes AFD reference). Is there any NOTAM of this runway?

from AirNAv:
Airport Operational Statistics
... Aircraft operations: avg 454/day[SIZE=-1] *[/SIZE]66% local general aviation33% transient general aviation<1% air taxi[SIZE=-1]* for 12-month period ending 05 March 2009[/SIZE]
 
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Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

weilke said:
Agreed, it should. To that extent, I would gladly accept paying more than $2 for my ticket and to get a photo, biometric data and a chip on it. Any airport that takes federal money AND has an access control system would have to give unescorted access to the GA ramp to a holder of such a credential.
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That would definitely be nice. Although, I take strolls around lots of GA airports, and never an issue. I just tell them I'm a pilot and am just looking at the scenery. Normally end up shooting the **** with a local for a couple of hours, and a few times got a ride in their plane. Only once have I been asked for my pilot's license.
 
Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

HighFlyingA380 said:
That would definitely be nice. Although, I take strolls around lots of GA airports, and never an issue. I just tell them I'm a pilot and am just looking at the scenery. Normally end up shooting the **** with a local for a couple of hours, and a few times got a ride in their plane. Only once have I been asked for my pilot's license.
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Those would be the airports that dont have an access control system.

I was at the Winter Haven, FL airport yesterday. No airline service, yet the place is surrounded by a 10ft fence with barbed wire on top. WHYYYY ?
 
Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

Part of their strategy. If they can't have user fees, they will do whatever is necessary to eliminate the users, starting with inaccessibility.

weilke said:
Those would be the airports that dont have an access control system.

I was at the Winter Haven, FL airport yesterday. No airline service, yet the place is surrounded by a 10ft fence with barbed wire on top. WHYYYY ?
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Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

weilke said:
Agreed, it should. To that extent, I would gladly accept paying more than $2 for my ticket and to get a photo, biometric data and a chip on it. Any airport that takes federal money AND has an access control system would have to give unescorted access to the GA ramp to a holder of such a credential.
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Dude, don't get me started on that. I already have the physical card with a clearance and issue from TSA, my TWIC card. Why not load my airman , seaman, & CDL credentials on there as well? Why do I have to carry a wallet full of ID when it can all load on one card that is my Transport Workers Identity Card? This is the kind of stuff government needs to do to save money, streamline process. Most of the excess cost of government is waste and fraud which cost much more than honest benefit.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
OK. I had to shut it off when the "pilot" started talking about "life is short and you have to realize what is important..."

Effing morons in the car, effing moron in the cockpit. You can't fix stupid.
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+1 on both accounts. Perfect summation. Nothing more to say.

lr60plt said:
Making me wonder how that landing would of even gone without that suv there.....
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Oh, and another addition to the 'Words' thread. ;)
 
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Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

Henning said:
Dude, don't get me started on that. I already have the physical card with a clearance and issue from TSA, my TWIC card. Why not load my airman , seaman, & CDL credentials on there as well? Why do I have to carry a wallet full of ID when it can all load on one card that is my Transport Workers Identity Card? This is the kind of stuff government needs to do to save money, streamline process. Most of the excess cost of government is waste and fraud which cost much more than honest benefit.
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You mean like a colleague of mine who has a USN CAC card that the USCG won't accept at their bases? He had to go through the process to get a separate CG CAC.
 
I don't think the guy in the cockpit is a moron, he just wasn't quite competent yet. He decided that aviation was not a safe sport for him to be exploring at his level of natural ability and decided to quit. That's smart enough.
 
Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

wsuffa said:
You mean like a colleague of mine who has a USN CAC card that the USCG won't accept at their bases? He had to go through the process to get a separate CG CAC.
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Yes, someone forgot the "common" part of the Common Access Card.:D
 
Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

I don't care who's responsible. I just stay away from ijdits.
 
Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

How is is possible for an AME to do so and continue to practice?:rofl:

bbchien said:
I don't care who's responsible. I just stay away from ijdits.
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Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

ROTFLMAO....

Rephrase: "I don't care who is responsible. When in the air, I just stay away from idjits"
 
Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

wsuffa said:
Yep. And the TSA won't accept them as Federal ID if you're taking a commercial flight.
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That's news to me. I always use my CAC card when checking in through security, and have never had any problems.
 
Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

35 AoA said:
That's news to me. I always use my CAC card when checking in through security, and have never had any problems.
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I haven't had any trouble either. In some airports, it even gets you through the "crew" line.

Now, logging onto unclassified Navy weather websites is another story, since NASA and USN don't have compatible root certificates. Go figure.
 
Re: Dramatic footage shows plane hitting car

MAKG1 said:
I haven't had any trouble either. In some airports, it even gets you through the "crew" line.

Now, logging onto unclassified Navy weather websites is another story, since NASA and USN don't have compatible root certificates. Go figure.
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If you are trying to use the navy wx website (FWB ) good luck my friend. It doesn't even work for us most of the time. As soon as you open your -1, which is typically not ready when you need it, you can no longer access it again if you close the pop up. Fantastic feature
 
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We work with FNMOC, but not with the GIF files on that website. We need 4D global data on winds, temperatures and (importantly) water vapor, into the stratosphere. The civilian models fall short on that last item.

There is quite a lot of stuff underneath the top page, that you can't get at without authentication.
 
Here's our airport. I always look up final just in case .. although the threshold is supposed to be displaced.

RT
 

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denverpilot said:
That hangar on the left must make things entertaining with a stiff left X-wind.
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The runway is listed as 4800ft, in a crosswind, landing a couple of 100 feet past the displaced threshold will be an option in most light aircraft.
 
Thing is if I'm coming in smoking hot, I'll aim for the physical threshold and bleed off speed on the way to the displaced as I transition to ground effect. I do watch for traffic though.
 
If you're so heavily iced that an approach like that is necessary, wouldn't it be a good idea to find a 10,000 foot runway to try it on?
 
MAKG1 said:
If you're so heavily iced that an approach like that is necessary, wouldn't it be a good idea to find a 10,000 foot runway to try it on?
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Actually the time I was iced I chose a 7500 some foot runway, yes, actually it was the one selected for the No Gyro approach which stepped me into severe icing over the mountains. You have no idea how much I would have appreciated SVT that evening. But there are times where I'll keep my speed up just for practice or to convenience the general flow of traffic if requested.
 
Yeah, that airport appears to be traffic-intensive and subject to ATC's "maintain 170 'til the marker."

Henning said:
Actually the time I was iced I chose a 7500 some foot runway, yes, actually it was the one selected for the No Gyro approach which stepped me into severe icing over the mountains. You have no idea how much I would have appreciated SVT that evening. But there are times where I'll keep my speed up just for practice or to convenience the general flow of traffic if requested.
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kinda looks like he stalled just before hitting the Volvo, the plane just falls into the car
 
Slight thread creep...

Some of us are meeting for breakfast at the Blue Hangar at 52F, this Saturday at 8:30am (might be 8:00, will advise).

All are welcome. Just let us know to expect you.
 
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