C172 versus Volvo SUV @ Northwest Regional

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
A student pilot clipped a Volvo SUV while landing at 52F this afternoon.

Fourth incident on 2 months from this field.

Video here: http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/denton/Plane-hits-car-on-landing-at-Roanoke-airport-177113201.html

Additional photos from a pilot based there at this link: http://www.dfwpilots.com/board/index.php?showtopic=8001&st=0&gopid=72526&#entry72526

From WFAA site:


WFAA
Posted on November 3, 2012 at 5:32 PM
Updated today at 8:48 PM

ROANOKE — The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating after a sport utility vehicle had a hole punched in its roof by a small plane Saturday morning.
No one was seriously hurt.

The accident happened at Northwest Regional Airport in Roanoke, which is linked to three other incidents in the past six weeks, including two fatal crashes that killed a total of six people.

Department of Public Safety spokesman Trooper Lonny Haschel said the 2005 Cessna Skyhawk was coming in for a landing when its landing gear struck a 2008 Volvo SUV that was traveling on an perimeter road at the airport around 10:50 a.m.

The plane skidded off the runway and into a grassy area about 75 yards from the point of impact. Pilot William Davis of Flower Mound was not hurt, but the aircraft was damaged.

The occupants of the SUV, Frank and Heather Laudo of Flower Mound, were taken to a hospital for treatment of non-life threatening injuries, Haschel said.
Four people died on October 7 when their plane crashed in Van Zandt County after taking off from Northwest Regional Airport.

On September 11, two people were killed after their small plane crashed in a wooded area shortly after takeoff from Northwest Regional Airport.

And on October 11, a small plane landed upside-down after its engine cut out shortly after takeoff. The pilot was able to walk away.
 
I know Frank. That's all I have to say about that.
 
So who had the right of way? The Volvo was at a lower altitude and was less maneuverable, but then, the plane was landing. ;)
 
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This is my home base, and one of my FBO's rentals. At this uncontrolled GA airport there is a service road at the very threshold of runway 17, to gain access to the east side of the airport from the west side. The only entrance to the airport from the main street is on the west side. Signs on either side of the threshold crossing road clearly tell cars to stop and look before proceeding.

That said, the plane was lower than it needed to be if he hit the car... And, we don't know if the car was past the stop signs. He may well have stopped and waited, but the pilot lost control.

Too early to tell.
 
If he was following the rules, how did he get hit? I'm impressed that he managed to keep control of his Volvo and got it pulled over.:rolleyes:
 
Jeeze, this is ridiculous. Hey people, stop crashing airplanes! And we wonder why the general public looks down on GA.

Sounds like either the SUV was actually too far forward, or the plane was off-center. Either way, that's one heck of a displaced threshold, not sure why anyone would need to be that low prior to the runway.
 
SCCutler said:
Here you go. Road crosses just north of runway. Lots of signs and stuff warning to look for aircraft.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=52f+...457,52.646484&t=h&ui=maps&hq=52f+airport&z=17
Click to expand...


Interesting. 2 different vehicles at the threshold from alternate directions at 2 different zooms. Must be a busy place.

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The SUV occupants say they knew how to follow the protocol.

Either they didn't do it right, or the 172 was way off centerline (not to mention a wee bit low.)

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/denton/Plane-hits-car-Wow-hes-a-little-low-177129811.html
The Laudos are aviation enthusiasts, and they visit the airport a lot. The road to get there is adjacent to the runway.

"We go out there a lot," Frank said. "We're used to the whole protocol of how to wait for the runway and everything like that."

But on Saturday, even following the rules wasn't enough. They were hit.
"I knew it was a plane immediately, because when I looked to the left, I saw him and he couldn't have been more than 10 feet away," Frank said. "I thought, 'Wow, he's a little low.'"
Click to expand...

I love this visual sequence. You can almost hear them talking. :lol:

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SCCutler said:
It.
Is.
A.
Runway.

The airplane.
Has.
The
Right.
Of.
Way.
Click to expand...

I know, I was being facetious. My point was to remind the gallery that no matter how drug in the pilot may have been, he's still got the priority. Ground vehicles need to stay out of the way, by whatever means necessary. The folks in the clip struck me as the "yep, i just pulled into traffic, tough. Don't hit me, Im driving here in my tank, obliviously" variety we've all come to defensively drive against as a matter of daily routine.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I know, I was being facetious. My point was to remind the gallery that no matter how drug in the pilot may have been, he's still got the priority. Ground vehicles need to stay out of the way, by whatever means necessary. The folks in the clip struck me as the "yep, i just pulled into traffic, tough. Don't hit me, Im driving here in my tank, obliviously" variety we've all come to defensively drive against as a matter of daily routine.
Click to expand...

He's only got the right of way if he's lined up for the runway.

Has that been established?

Student on solo cross country per the report.
 
Just realized, I know the tow truck driver that retrieved the SUV.

From the look of how the aircraft wound up, I think the student was lined up with the runway, but at least 50-75 feet lower than he should have been. There is also a slight hill on the north side of the fence.

At that runway, my aim point has me crossing that road about 60-75 ft AGL and touching down about 50-75 feet beyond the threshold.
 
SCCutler said:
It.
Is.
A.
Runway.

The airplane.
Has.
The
Right.
Of.
Way.
Click to expand...

What am I missing? It appears as if the ROAD is wall North of the runway and the runway has a displaced threshold.

Thus a plane should never be low enough to strike a car on the ROAD. :dunno:
 
hindsight2020 said:
The folks in the clip struck me as the "yep, i just pulled into traffic, tough. Don't hit me, Im driving here in my tank, obliviously" variety we've all come to defensively drive against as a matter of daily routine.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat: Got that same impression.

In the interview the couple did contradict each other, which in the eyes of a court, could prove guilt. The man said, "I looked to the left and saw him. He couldn't have been more than 10 feet away, and I thought, wow, he's a little low" Then the lady said, "We couldn't see anything, at all. then all of a sudden equipment was falling into the car." (This was confirmed by my lawyer who just watched it. He said that contradiction alone could cinch it.)

"There was blood everywhere!" From a few little cuts and scrapes? Stop being so dramatic.
 
timwinters said:
What am I missing? It appears as if the ROAD is wall North of the runway and the runway has a displaced threshold.
Click to expand...

Actually, Tim, the southern edge of the road is within 10-15 feet of the start of the runway surface.

Within 5-10 feet of the northern edge of the road is a white fence that marks the north edge of the airport property.
 
timwinters said:
Thus a plane should never be low enough to strike a car on the ROAD. :dunno:
Click to expand...

Yep, I would agree.

Also....did anyone else notice that the plane kind of "dropped in" to the suv? Making me wonder how that landing would of even gone without that suv there.....

And the windsock did not seem to be favoring that runway....
 
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AggieMike88 said:
Actually, Tim, the southern edge of the road is within 10-15 feet of the start of the runway surface.

Within 5-10 feet of the northern edge of the road is a white fence that marks the north edge of the airport property.
Click to expand...
But according to AirNav, runway 17 has a 400' displaced threshold. Apparently the car shouldn't have been there according to airport procedures but the airplane shouldn't have been there either. From the pictures of the car the wheels couldn't have been more than about 5-6 feet above the ground when the airplane was crossing the road.
 
Out of curiosity, what are the possible actions the FAA might take?
 
Wowsers.... Blew right through the stop line.

Check out the video at 0:06. The SUV isn't even in the frame. Another car is headed the opposite direction and also didn't stop.

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Another telling shot from the video. Check out the height above ground, the aircraft's shadow, the windsock, and that the pilot has about 500 feet to go to the threshold.

Sock shows neglible wind, but the way it is facing...

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Finally, striking the car. Note the change in windsock.

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Looking at that last image, the passenger is very lucky to not get a face full of propeller.
 
Yeah I mentioned that windsock earlier. Seems like a little breeze from the airplane's right at about 0:24.

Also....not using full flaps.

And again...watch the vid in normal speed....you can see it "drop" into the suv. I can't see it well enough to call it a "stall" or anything...but there was some definite sinking going on there.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Out of curiosity, what are the possible actions the FAA might take?
Click to expand...


After watching the video, I would imagine a discussion with the CFI who signed him off for solo would probably be high on the list, to determine what was taught around displaced thresholds ...
 
lr60plt said:
Also....not using full flaps.
Click to expand...

The school who owns the plane does teach no flap landings at that field as a method to ingraine good energy management and build some confidence if all goes bad in the pattern.

But after that, they teach normal "with flaps" procedures.

My check out with them expected "with flap" landings once the CFI was satisfied I understood the basics of working the pattern at that field.
 
Putting myself in the left seat, I would have never noticed a vehicle coming from that direction. Bad angle to start, plus my focus would be a bit tunneled down the runway.
 
That road has traffic control. Displaced threshold- who know where he was actually going to touch.

Pilot would be unable to see the car below and to the right.
 
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