Bird Encounter

abqtj

abqtj

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jul 29, 2016
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Albuquerque, NM
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abqtj
Had more excitement that I cared for during my lesson yesterday.

Climbing out of KABQ heading down to T or C (KTCS) was at about 7600' when my CFI said "BIRDS!".

Saw a huge flock of ducks/geese (unsure, kinda busy trying not to hit them at the time) directly off the nose, at my altitude, and coming right at me! Yikes.

Dodged to the right and within about 18 seconds they were just off my left wing. Easily 100 or so birds.

Here's a short clip from the GoPro I had. You can just make them out coming by the side window.

 
If you fly a little further west, and away from the Rio Grande river, you'll reduce your chance of an encounter (you're in their migratory lane - they like water, and New Mexico is dry this year). Don't "dodge right" only, climb, as their first instinct will be dive or remain level if they don't see you. Is this your pre-solo long XC flight?
 
danhagan said:
If you fly a little further west, and away from the Rio Grande river, you'll reduce your chance of an encounter (you're in their migratory lane - they like water, and New Mexico is dry this year). Don't "dodge right" only, climb, as their first instinct will be dive or remain level if they don't see you. Is this your pre-solo long XC flight?
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It was a secondary pre-solo XC to do some more VOR/nav work.

And yeah, we discussed about not flying over the Rio Grande this time of year for sure. I was climbing still, too. (climbing to 10,500)
 
abqtj said:
It was a secondary pre-solo XC to do some more VOR/nav work.

And yeah, we discussed about not flying over the Rio Grande this time of year for sure.
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Perfect. The north side of T or C airport will be generally bird free as there's a shooting range there (not that they get shot) just before the approach to RWY 13.
 
Hi.
For the next couple of months all birds, Gees, Ducks etc. will be going loco. Keep your eyes out, mid / upper left, but chances are that if they do not take evasive action you will not be able to outmaneuver them.
SeagulCUP.jpg
 
bluesideup said:
Hi.
For the next couple of months all birds, Gees, Ducks etc. will be going loco. Keep your eyes out, mid / upper left, but chances are that if they do not take evasive action you will not be able to outmaneuver them.
View attachment 60151
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Is that Chino by chance?

Nice photo!
 
Hi.
That is what I use, as a rule, pull up, slow down, get more time to avoid, but this nasty thing broke all the rules, it went above the left wing.
 
ECC4D143-88B0-4A34-903F-DFF74168C912.jpeg
I just plow into them. Otherwise I might run into a tree trying to avoid them.
 
steingar said:
Birds dive when they see an oncoming collision. You should climb.
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I had a CFI state on more than one occasion that bird of prey prefer to climb when they are threatened and large migratory birds (geese) don't move at all.
 
steingar said:
Birds dive when they see an oncoming collision. You should climb.
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That’s not true from my experience. Eagles, hawks and buzzards will initially try to climb when they sense a conflict. If they are flapping to climb and then you see them tuck their wings and dive, then it’s going to be close.
 
labbadabba said:
I had a CFI state on more than one occasion that bird of prey prefer to climb when they are threatened and large migratory birds (geese) don't move at all.
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Buzzards climb too. Geese and ducks seem to want to move left or right instead of up or down.
 
I can't find anything about it on the web now, but around 5 years ago we had a student (I think on her first solo) take a turkey buzzard through the front windscreen on base. She not only kept her head and FLEW THE AIRPLANE, she landed and taxied back to parking without assistance. Yes, she did go on and get her certificate. A turkey buzzard is roughly the size of a canadian goose.
 
F53AE69A-37F2-431E-ADE6-47DF05FBEF0A.jpeg

Whack!
 
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On the way to Oshkosh in 2016, I stopped for gas in Mexico, MO and ran on to a chopper pilot on the ramp who had taken a bird through the windshield. There was blood and guts all over the cockpit, and he was hosing it out. I tried to talk to him about it, but he was still too angry to talk much.
 
Geese will fly at night - hit one on the left strut. I went to a lake the next Saturday, fed the geese and ducks two loaves of bread; bad karma to ice another aviator and not make amends. . .
 
Geese should be banned from flying in controlled airspace. I mean this goose doesn't even have respect for the police....

 
Cooter said:
Buzzards climb too. Geese and ducks seem to want to move left or right instead of up or down.
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I have yet to see any type of bird climb enough to matter in this type of scenario. I have, however, seen them fold in the wings and change altitude very quickly, quite frequently.

I haven't seen birds climbing fast enough to be material to the conversation. YMMV, maybe they get lazy when they make it to Florida.

That said, I personally haven't changed attitude to avoid a bird. I haven't come across a flock yet, that's a different situation. IMO, a single bird is at least as likely to correct right into my correction if I tried to avoid them as I am in avoiding them. It probably is a good idea to climb, but what if it's above you already and didn't dive. You could climb right into a problem that wouldn't have existed.
 
Flew into a murder of crows a couple of years ago.
No damage, except for the crows, and my nerves.
 
Cooter said:
That’s not true from my experience. Eagles, hawks and buzzards will initially try to climb when they sense a conflict. If they are flapping to climb and then you see them tuck their wings and dive, then it’s going to be close.
Click to expand...

Cooter said:
Buzzards climb too. Geese and ducks seem to want to move left or right instead of up or down.
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Go with that then, but I don't think they can climb anywhere near what you can do. All of my turkey vultures encounters (dozens living in Texas) resulted in them folding their wings in and diving faster than I'd ever be able to ... had one circling and come down at me when I was on short approach to Llano (he was above and dove down). I've heard they get aggressive and territorial at certain times of year.

Ran though some white wing dove on takeoff just after rotating similar to what Sheppard had above with the crows.
 
I was just pointing out what I’ve seen. Pilots just need to move the airplane in the way that makes the most sense for the situation. I have most often just kept flying straight and let them get out of the way. Birds that were trying to climb have resulted in the closest passes for me. I only saw one of the four that I’ve hit.
 
bflynn said:
I can't find anything about it on the web now, but around 5 years ago we had a student (I think on her first solo) take a turkey buzzard through the front windscreen on base. She not only kept her head and FLEW THE AIRPLANE, she landed and taxied back to parking without assistance. Yes, she did go on and get her certificate. A turkey buzzard is roughly the size of a canadian goose.
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I hope she's the one in the cockpit of the next airliner I am on. We need pilots like that. That is pretty amazing how she handled it.
 
Cooter said:
I was just pointing out what I’ve seen. Pilots just need to move the airplane in the way that makes the most sense for the situation. I have most often just kept flying straight and let them get out of the way. Birds that were trying to climb have resulted in the closest passes for me. I only saw one of the four that I’ve hit.
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Yeah I generally fly straight and let them move as well. Seems like anytime I try to avoid them, they get confused and fly right at me.

The 6 or 7 I’ve hit, never even had time to take action anyway. Oddly, all were in helos and never any in airplanes. I suppose the lower altitude has a bit to do with it.
 
Margy's first flight with me ended up with us punching a big hole in the right wing of the 172 with a turkey buzzard. We ended up doing a precautionary landing in Luray, where my brother was the program director of the local radio station. Margy thought before that if something bad happened in flight, you died. Then she found out that when something bad happened, you had to have Ron's brother drive you home (after he put his girlfriend on the air in his stead).
 
Cooter said:
I was just pointing out what I’ve seen. Pilots just need to move the airplane in the way that makes the most sense for the situation. I have most often just kept flying straight and let them get out of the way. Birds that were trying to climb have resulted in the closest passes for me. I only saw one of the four that I’ve hit.
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I read somewhere about that "usually birds avoid by diving" and filed it away in my memory.
Then saw it here, followed by others experiences. Tried to google, and found an AOPA vague advice to me effect of "they usually (or often) dive but there are exceptions" which didn't help a lot.

So this thread is about the best advice as far as I can see. You pilots that have encountered birds, and it kinda makes sense to me that larger birds of prey may go high to feel safe, where others dive.

You've hit birds four times? How long a span of flying was this in? Was there damage all times?

Anyway, it seems like a gamble, either climbing, staying the course, or descending. Some part of me thinks if it is that uncertain, at least maintaining gives the bird a chance to avoid you, since you are not changing? Then again, maybe it's the "chicken" in me...I know I would feel a lot worse if I actively changed course and hit a bird that if I hadn't changed I would have avoided.

Thanks for the thread. It's definitely interesting to me.
 
LongRoadBob said:
I read somewhere about that "usually birds avoid by diving" and filed it away in my memory.
Then saw it here, followed by others experiences. Tried to google, and found an AOPA vague advice to me effect of "they usually (or often) dive but there are exceptions" which didn't help a lot.

So this thread is about the best advice as far as I can see. You pilots that have encountered birds, and it kinda makes sense to me that larger birds of prey may go high to feel safe, where others dive.

You've hit birds four times? How long a span of flying was this in? Was there damage all times?

Anyway, it seems like a gamble, either climbing, staying the course, or descending. Some part of me thinks if it is that uncertain, at least maintaining gives the bird a chance to avoid you, since you are not changing? Then again, maybe it's the "chicken" in me...I know I would feel a lot worse if I actively changed course and hit a bird that if I hadn't changed I would have avoided.

Thanks for the thread. It's definitely interesting to me.
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There’s no single answer for how to miss them. They are really good at getting out of the way and I’ve probably missed 30 or 40 for every one that I’ve hit. If I see them early, I’ll just make a slight right or left turn to avoid. If I see them late, I just keep going and hope to miss them.

One time there was no damage. It got wedged between the intake and fuselage, but didn’t hurt anything. The other times, they went down the engine and destroyed them. Birds stink when they’ve been splattered around and cooked in a jet engine. But, that’s better than being splattered around in the cockpit. I’ve known several guys to take them through the windscreen right in the face, that’s nasty stuff.
 
Cooter said:
There’s no single answer for how to miss them. They are really good at getting out of the way and I’ve probably missed 30 or 40 for every one that I’ve hit. If I see them early, I’ll just make a slight right or left turn to avoid. If I see them late, I just keep going and hope to miss them.

One time there was no damage. It got wedged between the intake and fuselage, but didn’t hurt anything. The other times, they went down the engine and destroyed them. Birds stink when they’ve been splattered around and cooked in a jet engine. But, that’s better than being splattered around in the cockpit. I’ve known several guys to take them through the windscreen right in the face, that’s nasty stuff.
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DAFEE504-D1AF-4B21-8125-A864E039CBD6.jpeg

BDE CDR was in the seat on this one. A “full bird” almost took a bird to the face! :D

I’ve taken one to the center screen, cracked it and then the remains hit the ALQ above. The ALQ fried the remains and failed it. Had a student take one to his pitot tube. Stuck to the pitot tube and the 0 airspeed failed the stab below 80 kts. Overall been pretty lucky when it comes to hitting birds though.
 
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Come close a few times. Most of the time I turn left of right if there is still some distance. The 4 or so that we’re very close, two of them dived and the other two stayed the course. Missed them not by much. The only actual bird strike I’ve had happened at night just after taking off from Ocala (KOCF) at about 1000 feet, pitch black. Heard a loud bang and felt an impact in the engine (Mooney) and then my windscreen got covered with stuff. Not knowing what had happened my initial though was that I had a catastrophic engine failure and had oil all over the windscreen . So this is how I die, I thought . But the engine keep running strong and all the gages were in the green and that’s when I realize the stuff in the windscreen was actually blood and guts. The bird hit the top of the cowling with about half going inside the engine compartment and the other on the windscreen. Scared the crap out of me until I figured out what had happened


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All pilots should probably know the definition of a perfect goose - one that is no more than a 1/2 inch off center.

Sorry, Couldn’t resist.
 
In gliders I often get pretty close to soaring birds here in SC. I think they’re buzzards. They’re really good at soaring and are usually in the dead center of a thermal.

They dive away when they hear the glider.
 
My advice is never fly under them. I was flying south from Dallas at about 3500’ when I saw a flock of black birds in a ragged V-formation above my altitude but on my flight path. I tried to go around to the side but every time I changed direction they did. In the end I thought that they were 1000’ or more above me so I decided to just go under. That seemed like a good plan right up until the entire flock folded their wings and dropped like rocks.

I had birds passing all around me. They had yellow eyes. I distinctly remember the yellows eyes. One hit right at the rivet line just above the windshield on the right side. I heard the Big Bang and saw guts and blood out the right rear window. I immediately turned toward Mexia since I’d just passed it. Things seemed stable so I slowed and did some turns, then slowed some more until the stall horn went off and I could feel the buffet. Everything seemed normal so I went ahead and landed.

I was pleasantly surprised not to find any dents. There was a big oily smelly streak and guts along the top of the cabin, and then guts draped down the right side, but it missed the vertical stabilizer. After I calmed down I flew home. It took the better part of a day and a lot of soap and solvent to get the plane clean.

I’ve never liked flying anywhere near birds since then. I will go as far to the side as I have to to stay away from them. A few inches lower and it would have come through the windshield. I could swear another went through the prop and down the pilot side under the wing but it didn’t hit anything so it was probably further away then it looked.

Gary
 
I was thinking of this thread as I was returning to base this afternoon. I caught sight of a group of birds headed roughly SE as I was flying North. They were maybe 50' above me and must have gotten a good look because they turned and headed SW bound.
 
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