Best career choice in the long run

jordane93 said:
I'm a Senior at Queens College studying Economics and flying on the side. I'm pretty much getting all the ratings a "flight student" at ERAU or UND will get except I'm not going to be $100K in debt (I'm finishing up my CFI and will start instructing part time while I finish up my last semester). If you put the effort in, your can get all the same ratings a student at a flight college can get. So it's not impossible. Flying on the side worked for me. Also I took a year off from flying and still got it done.
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Well done!!
Now, you may want to think about updating your signature...
 
All the advice here is good, I wish I'd read this thread back in 1970.

If you want to be a professional pilot, you should be a professional pilot.

If you want to be a pilot AND your family can afford to pay up front for it, then the professional pilot programs at Riddle or UND combined with a major in some technical subject, like engineering or economics, are the way to go.

BUT BUT BUT: Only if you and/or your family can pay the ~$200K that track costs. Do NOT take on huge student loans!! Just don't!

And don't get a degree with the word 'aviation' in it. A professional pilot is only one failed medical away unemployment, you want some kind of marketable skill as a back up. If you continue with college look at a real degree in hard science, engineering, economics, etc.

If you want to work with your hands then consider the 'dirty jobs' approach mentioned by James331. There will always be an aviation related job for mechanics, avionics technicians, aerospace welders, etc.

I just helped a young collegue apply to Air Force and Navy OTS, the Air Force offered to put him in the back of an AWACS or JSTARS, but the Navy offered a pilot slot. He left for Navy OCS three weeks ago. He was a CS major with a 3.2 GPA who was working as programmer.

The Air Force or Army National Guard is probably the number one best place to learn to fly. A Guard pilot gets military flight training, and then gets to pick any two of Guard/Family/Airlines.

If you don't have $200K available or Riddle and don't join the military then your plan of community college and local training sounds good. If you can find another guy with similar interests you two could split the cost of a Cessna 150, fly the heck out it, and build hours pretty quickly.

Good luck and keep us posted as you go along.
 
why in gods green earth would someone spend $$$ to go to Embry Riddle
 
I would think that a degree in engineering would go far in the field of aviation.
Like mabe electrical, structural, or similar. There are companies out there looking for those with engineering degrees. Gulfstream, and Lockheed come to mind just to name a couple.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Besides, this forum is primarily hobby pilots who get their feathers ruffled at the mention of being a professional pilot.
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Well I don't know about your specific experiences on this forum, in my case as a hobby pilot I'm always interested in hearing from professional pilots. My experience has been that the majority of the professional pilots that I have met don't seem happy with what they're doing. The majority seem dissatisfied with their work conditions and/or their level of pay. In my circle/neighborhood let's say in the last five years I've met three major airline pilots who seem very happy. They live in nice houses and are obviously doing well. In contrast though over the same time period I've meet probably a dozen charter/contract pilots working for various Part 135 operations who don't seem happy at all. One of my past CFI's is a lady in her late 20's who is married to a musician who is a great guy but doesn't really have a job that brings in any decent money. She is incredibly frustrated in what she does as a contract pilot flying King Airs and Citations, she is never home, doesn't earn much money and doesn't see a way forward that also supports her wish to start a family with her husband. She keeps hoping to land a job working for a private company flying the corporate jet but that hasn't happened yet. There are many others that I get a similar feel for. So my impression is that a relatively small percentage of professional pilots "make it" in the sense of not only doing what they want to do (flying professionally) but also bringing home the bacon. So when I come across a young person who talks about flying professionally, and if I care about that person I will suggest some other alternatives because looking from the outside in it doesn't look that great. For those of you who enjoy what you're doing and are truly happy, I applaud you and congratulations. So I don't think we get our feather ruffled speaking as a hobby pilot we just come across too many professional pilots who seem jaded.
 
Well count me as a VERY happy 135 pilot, who is home everynight and makes good money.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Honest question. Are you employed in any of the fields you recommended? If not, are you a professional pilot? If so, how do you reconcile that disparity?

For full disclosure I'm a pro pilot. At any rate, I just hear that wisdom from a lot of professional pilots and it seems hollow. To quote Rounders: "He sees all the angles, but he doesn't have the balls to play one". Not picking on you personally, just highlighting the fallacy of the "backup value degree".

I have two degrees in aerospace engineering and at this juncture in my life, that and a buck twenty gets me a cup of coffee. Knowing what I know now, I would have not continued my studies in engineering. I'd never have the tolerance for the job and I did well academically mind you. It'd be incredibly dishonest of me to suggest those career paths when I've yet to display the willingness to do it myself. To be clear, engineering doesn't pay all that well, in my cursory affiliation with professional peers of my former formal training. Even mainline FOs blow them out the water every day and twice on sunday on the pay and retirement. That's terrible, considering how academically treacherous it is to become an AE/ME/EE for the median.

At any rate, just sayin'.
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There are many reasons to advise having a backup, one medical issue and your carrier as a pilot can be over. You can't deny that you have made sacrifices in life to be a pro pilot. Sudden new responsibilities can make those sacrifices unworkable anymore. It is a difficult industry to live a 'normal life' in.
 
B350ATP said:
why in gods green earth would someone spend $$$ to go to Embry Riddle
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For the same reason people pay $400000 to send their kids to Harvard or Yale to major in 'social justice studies'. Because those schools tie their grads into a powerful alumni network.

In the case of pilots, their students get the 750 hour ATP.

Let me revise and extend this post to brag on my nephew. He was a so-so student in high school and college, which he didn't finish. He did the local training thing up through CFI, instructed for about 18 months, and got hired by a regional airline.

He flew for the regional about two years, quit, went back to his home town of Houston and made a modest living instructing and co-piloting for private aircraft owners. He got a regular gig as the a contract PIC of that twin Cessna with the long skinny turboprop motors (Conquest?). That owner upgraded to a King Air, and paid for nephew to get King Air trained at Flight Safety (including an ATP ride).

He was just sent by another owner Flight Safety to obtain a Learjet type so he can fly SIC for that guy. He's finishing college online. It won't be long until he's well qualified for a legacy major airline.

He also looks the part, which never hurts.

I mention him because he wasn't from a rich family, and he wasn't a super student, and didn't have a degree. But he's climbing the ladder by being a good pilot and having great networking skills.

There is a way.
 
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Forget the degree. Go Army! :D
 

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JimNtexas said:
All the advice here is good, I wish I'd read this thread back in 1970.

If you want to be a professional pilot, you should be a professional pilot.

If you want to be a pilot AND your family can afford to pay up front for it, then the professional pilot programs at Riddle or UND combined with a major in some technical subject, like engineering or economics, are the way to go.

BUT BUT BUT: Only if you and/or your family can pay the ~$200K that track costs. Do NOT take on huge student loans!! Just don't!

And don't get a degree with the word 'aviation' in it. A professional pilot is only one failed medical away unemployment, you want some kind of marketable skill as a back up. If you continue with college look at a real degree in hard science, engineering, economics, etc.

If you want to work with your hands then consider the 'dirty jobs' approach mentioned by James331. There will always be an aviation related job for mechanics, avionics technicians, aerospace welders, etc.

I just helped a young collegue apply to Air Force and Navy OTS, the Air Force offered to put him in the back of an AWACS or JSTARS, but the Navy offered a pilot slot. He left for Navy OCS three weeks ago. He was a CS major with a 3.2 GPA who was working as programmer.

The Air Force or Army National Guard is probably the number one best place to learn to fly. A Guard pilot gets military flight training, and then gets to pick any two of Guard/Family/Airlines.

If you don't have $200K available or Riddle and don't join the military then your plan of community college and local training sounds good. If you can find another guy with similar interests you two could split the cost of a Cessna 150, fly the heck out it, and build hours pretty quickly.

Good luck and keep us posted as you go along.
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Far too sensible and sound advice.
 
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