Best career choice in the long run

[Checkout_my_Six]

Pimp or Drug Lord.

ya....we see how that worked out.

 

[overdrive148]

I currently work at an FBO part-time. I ended up graduating from ERAU last July and I've been constantly applying for aviation related jobs since a few months before. I have gotten two interviews, one for an internship in Aspen that I didn't get, and one for the job I have now. Fortunately, I'm debt free thanks to my family, but I'm still not quite 'off the ground' yet.

I did the same as you, actually insisted on doing the core classes at a community college because it wasn't worth $675/9 weeks to take english or speech or economics, etc. Now it's bumped up to over $1000 every 9 weeks without the books for each class...

Doing the same over again and without financial support, I probably wouldn't have gone to ERAU. There's no way I could've afforded it, and it hasn't quite opened the doors my family and I thought it would.

I tried AFROTC in college and after a year or so and decided it wasn't for me. If you are interested in giving it a shot, it's not a bad experience either way, and there's no obligation up to a certain point. My dad is ex-military (Royal Air Force) and flew interceptors in his day, and he pushed me to give it a shot to see if I'd like it.

I helped a lot in the last year of school with financing since I found a job through a friend I made in one of my classes. It was a sales position at a whopping $14 an hour full time, and I drove over an hour each way, each day to get there and back. In the end, after about 7 months, they decided to go in a different direction and terminate me (without notice). I was confident that I could find a new job with this experience at least, but just to be safe, I applied for unemployment. Turns out that I went all the way to the last week of 6 months of pay looking for even menial jobs.

I ran into OkieAviator on POA and he said his cousin ran the airport in Shawnee, and they had a job opening. The last day of the job posting, as it turns out. I got an interview, got the job, and I've been here since.

So far, from applying for jobs, I've gotten nothing but a fast food job so far. From knowing people, I've gotten 5-6 total. It sucks, but it's all about who you know. I applied for a job in OKC at Wiley Post for an Airport Operations Officer in December - I met the requirements they were looking for pretty well and it turned out that for that one job alone another 150 applicants were there with me. No way I could beat out that many people, even with a BS from ERAU in Professional Aeronautics, minors in management and safety, a pilots license, and hands on experience managing an airport.

I've been looking for lots of jobs where I live and in my desired career field and not much else. And one conversation a few weeks ago reminded me that you can sit around looking for the ideal job all day and year long, but to get somewhere you've got to look for jobs outside your comfort zone, outside your ideal job. I love the airport job - I wish it had more hours, but it's above min wage and I like dealing with planes and pilots all day. But it's only enough to keep myself afloat with rent and bills etc. To get the rest of my ratings to fly for a living (a dream of mine) I'll have to do something else. And I've been told having experience from lots of jobs won't exactly do you wrong down the road. Neither will the money!

I've been thinking about going into tech or at least doing some of the tutorials on coding and html and other things online because for all the careers out there, it doesn't seem to be a terrible one or one that I couldn't handle doing. I am pretty proficient at using computers and spend a good chunk of my spare time on them, so why not? One of the friends in my small online gaming community is giving one of my friends a job and walking him through the steps to apply and learn for the position (in html). Been playing together with both for years now. You never know where a good contact will come from

Hope this helps!

//edit
Also, considering a choice of a degree to follow, I met a Top Gun pilot in Fallon NV on a business trip with my dad. He flew F-18's, and I asked him what his degree was. Elementary Education, I kid you not. Something to consider, it may not matter what you get it in, and Professional Aeronautics hasn't been enough to get me in the door alone, so why not get it in something you can do well and fall back on, other than aviation

 

[James331]

Professional aeronautics isn't a real degree, at least not like a educational degree, law degree, medical degree, etc.

Ether way, degrees are becoming more and more worthless every day, just get any old degree as fast and as cheap as you can, the faster you get into your job market and gain EXPERIENCE and CONNECTIONS the faster you'll get where you want to go.

On a side note, I have a degree, it's on my resume, not one employer has ever asked about it, or checked up on it, tells you something about it's value. I'd wager you could BS having a BS and for 95% of interviews no one would ever know, or probably care.

 

[Gucci Pilot]

He flew F-18's, and I asked him what his degree was. Elementary Education, I kid you not. Something to consider, it may not matter what you get it in, and Professional Aeronautics hasn't been enough to get me in the door alone, so why not get it in something you can do well and fall back on, other than aviation

I have met pilots with degrees in every type of engineering, biology, every behavioral science degree, criminal justice, business, nursing, forestry, and even farm management. Just remember...for a pilot, it doesn't matter what your degree is in, but for a fallback job, that may be a different story.

 

[overdrive148]

Professional aeronautics isn't a real degree, at least not like a educational degree, law degree, medical degree, etc.

An education degree gives you the skills to teach.
A law degree gives you the skills to practice law.
A medical degree gives you the skills to practice medicine.
An engineering degree gives you the skills to be an engineer...

A degree that focuses on areas like human factors, security, aviation safety, occupational safety and health, air traffic control, aircraft maintenance, and aeronautical science...? I dunno, those all seem pretty relevant to the aviation industry and being a pilot especially. Even parts of those are valid in other industries

What is your degree in?

I have met pilots with degrees in every type of engineering, biology, every behavioral science degree, criminal justice, business, nursing, forestry, and even farm management. Just remember...for a pilot, it doesn't matter what your degree is in, but for a fallback job, that may be a different story.

Fair enough. Mentioned it mostly because I was under the impression when I started that to be in aviation, I had to have a degree in something aviation related. Now I know that isn't the case, so if you don't have to, why not have something that you can fall back on? Totally not encouraging him to get a degree in elementary education. Although if he wants to be a teacher...

 

[FlyingTiger]

I think you're putting all your eggs in one basket with an aviation degree because in a sense it's like going to a trade school. Get a Bachelors in an area that will make you the most money outside of aviation. You can still train and work your way towards an airline job if that's your ultimate goal however if you decide that isn't for you, you can still fly as a hobby or commercially on a part time basis while working in your profession and/or moving on to an advanced degree.

EDIT: One exception might be if you want to be a lawyer. As long as your grades and LSATs are decent, the law schools really don't care what your degree is in. If anything, it could make you stand out.

 

[James331]

An education degree gives you the skills to teach.
A law degree gives you the skills to practice law.
A medical degree gives you the skills to practice medicine.
An engineering degree gives you the skills to be an engineer...

A degree that focuses on areas like human factors, security, aviation safety, occupational safety and health, air traffic control, aircraft maintenance, and aeronautical science...? I dunno, those all seem pretty relevant to the aviation industry and being a pilot especially. Even parts of those are valid in other industries

What is your degree in?



Fair enough. Mentioned it mostly because I was under the impression when I started that to be in aviation, I had to have a degree in something aviation related. Now I know that isn't the case, so if you don't have to, why not have something that you can fall back on? Totally not encouraging him to get a degree in elementary education. Although if he wants to be a teacher...

A degree doesn't give you skills

Experience gives you skills, sitting through a "safety class" checks a box and MAYBE gives you some knowledge.

This is the reason many employers much rather have someone with X years in the industry compared to some kid with a degree

My degree is in absolutely nothing, I went to class, got the credits and got the paper, which is framed and now resides in storage.... somewhere.

I think you're putting all your eggs in one basket with an aviation degree because in a sense it's like going to a trade school. Get a Bachelors in an area that will make you the most money outside of aviation. You can still train and work your way towards an airline job if that's your ultimate goal however if you decide that isn't for you, you can still fly as a hobby or commercially on a part time basis while working in your profession and/or moving on to an advanced degree.

He would have been better off spending that ERU money going to a trade school for a fall back, becoming a certified welder or electrician will make far more ROI than most any BS degree, or learn roofing, dry wall and overall construction.

Add some business sense to that and start your own little company and now you're easily into the six figure range.

 

[RyanB]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I will explore all my possible options and go from there

 

[overdrive148]

A degree doesn't give you skills

Experience gives you skills, sitting through a "safety class" checks a box and MAYBE gives you some knowledge.

This the reason many employers much rather have someone with X years in the industry compared to some kid with a degree

My degree is in absolutely nothing, I went to class, got the credits and got the paper, which is framed and now resides in storage.... somewhere.

So getting a degree in, say, electrical engineering doesn't give you any skill with electrics whatsoever? Dunno about you, but I practice what I learned in college in the jobs I've had and the flying I've done.

And how can you talk about what degrees are "real" or not if you didn't use yours or aren't even comfortable talking about which you have?

There's no true scotsman.

 

[James331]

So getting a degree in, say, electrical engineering doesn't give you any skill with electrics whatsoever? Dunno about you, but I practice what I learned in college in the jobs I've had and the flying I've done.

And how can you talk about what degrees are "real" or not if you didn't use yours or aren't even comfortable talking about which you have?

There's no true scotsman.

Scotsman?

I just view the degree as a box that got check, just a generic arts degree, has no use other than it was cheap and checks the box.

Again, you get some knowledge, most of those degrees have very little real world skill built into them.

I have plenty of other certifications and licenses which I use often, everything from my ATP to my CFI, NREMT to USPA, blah blah blah.

Thing is, if you can do basic electrical work (as in commercial and res), are slightly smarter than the average bear, you can make some great money, this is stuff you can learn at your local community college for very little money.

Some RN programs at community colleges have GREAT ROI.

Learn roofing, speak half arse Spanish and you can do quite well, no formal schooling required.


This feminine society we live in which puts such a emphasis on getting a degree isn't helping young folks, out of the people I know, the ones who are making the most money don't even have a degree.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Scotsman?

I just view the degree as a box that got check, just a generic arts degree, has no use other than it was cheap and checks the box.

Again, you get some knowledge, most of those degrees have very little real world skill built into them.

I have plenty of other certifications and licenses which I use often, everything from my ATP to my CFI, NREMT to USPA, blah blah blah.

Thing is, if you can do basic electrical work (as in commercial and res), are slightly smarter than the average bear, you can make some great money, this is stuff you can learn at your local community college for very little money.

Some RN programs at community colleges have GREAT ROI.

Learn roofing, speak half arse Spanish and you can do quite well, no formal schooling required.


This feminine society we live in which puts such a emphasis on getting a degree isn't helping young folks, out of the people I know, the ones who are making the most money don't even have a degree.

Then you obviously do not know people like mike Bloomberg, or mitt Romney who I don't view as " feminine" nor the millions of others with good solid degrees who have done very very well. Bloomberg has given millions to John Hopkins where he arrived broke after high school. A college degree today is imparitive unless you don't desire or aspire to a real decent income. The Good job will always go to the applicant with a serious degree, math , science, etc. it isn't 1950 any longer.

 

[James331]

Then you obviously do not know people like mike Bloomberg, or mitt Romney who I don't view as " feminine" nor the millions of others with good solid degrees who have done very very well. Bloomberg has given millions to John Hopkins where he arrived broke after high school. A college degree today is imparitive unless you don't desire or aspire to a real decent income. The Good job will always go to the applicant with a serious degree, math , science, etc. it isn't 1950 any longer.

You're right,

Maybe since you have a degree, thus a "real decent income", you could donate some change to starving "uneducated" people like Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Michael Dell, etc.

And you're right, it's not the 50s, back then a degree meant a lot more.

 

[B350ATP]

So im facing that predicament of choosing what to do as far as college and a career. Im a senior in highschool with a PPL and trying to decide whats next. I feel like in the long run I wont be happy doing anything other than being in the aviation field. Like an office job or something like that...not something i want to do. My GPA is roughly a 3.2 so i feel like i should atleast qualify for most things. The medical field would be nice, especially the $$, but then again its not my top interest. I know money is not everything and you should choose a career that you enjoy. Even though that statement is true you have to choose something to make a living and give you enough cash to survive, and i feel like the aviation field is pretty grim in that category which drives me away, and do it only for a hobby. Also thought about the ROTC but i feel like getting a pilot slot is few and far between and my chances there are also slim, compared so say 20+ years ago. Im in a tough situation here because i need to figure this out.

You gotta pick something you will find employment in. "Follow your dreams" etc is nice but you gotta keep the lights on. A few years later, support a family, and send the kids to college. Chasing that airline job, I don't know about that.

The following fields will be BOOMING for a very long time, try to find an aviation application within them or think about aviation as a serious hobby, and volunteer at airshows, CAP, etc etc.

Medical Field, doctor, physician assistant. You can become an FAA AME in addition to your primary doctor practice

Mechanical/Electrical Engineering

Computer Science/IT Security

Finance/Accounting - in bad economy, people want to keep their money. In a good economy, people want to keep their money. In either economy, nobody wants to have tax exposure

Air Traffic Controller - very difficult to get into, but take a hard look at this also. Federal benefits, 100K+ a year, and you can speak at local pilot meetings, airshows, etc to your hearts content and stay involved.

Good Luck

 

[James331]

Move to India?

 

[B350ATP]

Move to India?

yeah if you want to work for Dell Computer or Citibank customer service line

CyberSecurity jobs are in big demand, and due to the "foreign angle" companies want US employees for those jobs, some of which require security clearances or a vetting process if dealing with US Govt contracts.

Rahm Patel in New Dehli is not the competition for those jobs.

 

[overdrive148]

Scotsman?

I just view the degree as a box that got check, just a generic arts degree, has no use other than it was cheap and checks the box.

Again, you get some knowledge, most of those degrees have very little real world skill built into them.

I have plenty of other certifications and licenses which I use often, everything from my ATP to my CFI, NREMT to USPA, blah blah blah.

Thing is, if you can do basic electrical work (as in commercial and res), are slightly smarter than the average bear, you can make some great money, this is stuff you can learn at your local community college for very little money.

Some RN programs at community colleges have GREAT ROI.

Learn roofing, speak half arse Spanish and you can do quite well, no formal schooling required.

This feminine society we live in which puts such a emphasis on getting a degree isn't helping young folks, out of the people I know, the ones who are making the most money don't even have a degree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
Logical fallacy based around calling things not "real" or "true".

If you used your arts degree to check a box and stored it away and you didn't use it, how is yours a "real degree" while mine is not? And by your measurement of if a degree is valid, did yours provide real world skill while you earned it?

Can't say anything about electrical work or a "feminine" society, but I am having a hard enough time finding a job with a 4 year degree. The only way I think you could make money without a degree would be going into debt to make yourself attractive enough to hire (one of the pilots here didn't go to college and got ratings instead, hasn't made enough yet to break even) or knowing someone to get into a job, at least to start.

Experience could be built in spades after that and you could make a lot of money that way, but breaking into a position where you could do that where it isn't entry level retail or fast food (at least here in OK) feels fairly unrealistic.

Also, not saying that having an ERAU degree automatically makes me a better pilot or anything or completely prepares me for any one job, but I think that the knowledge and experience and skills I gained from my education doesn't leave me in a terrible position for working in the industry.

You're right,

Maybe since you have a degree, thus a "real decent income", you could donate some change to starving "uneducated" people like Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Michael Dell, etc.

And you're right, it's not the 50s, back then a degree meant a lot more.

I agree that back then degrees meant a lot more. The driving force behind the reason I got mine was because of the professional level of work I aspired to do later in life. I refused to be a fast food worker or any other low level job for long because I was capable of more (not much aspiration in my graduating class from HS to do much of anything probably pushed that a bit more). To get anywhere, I was told I needed a 4 year degree.

So I decided I'd get one, my dad suggested ERAU, it looked great and I did well at it. He offered to pay as long as I kept my grades high. While you may not require a degree to get a job, at the entry level I'm at I can't find many positions that don't require a 2 or 4 year degree to even apply for unless its fast food or retail. And the ones I do qualify for wont call back. Everyone's got a BS and now you may even have to go to the Master's level to stand out.

That or just get experience somewhere, and lots of it. Which you have to get hired to do, which requires experience to get hired, which requires a job, which requires...

Or education, which requires money, which requires a job, which requires...

 

[James331]

With the feminine society remark, I'm talking how some folks look down on any profession that is outside of the soft shoed office types.


I don't think you're stuck in fast food if you don't have a degree, that's some college advertisement BS.

I know skydive instructors that make nearly 100k a year

Quite a few folks can get into construction with zero experience and work their way up quickly, starting their own companies and making very good money.

There are plenty of places to make great money without a degree, keep in mind colleges and universities are a business.

After I got my CPL my first job was just over 30k housing and utilities provided.

I spent something like 30-40k for all my training, I ended up with my own plane which I built hours in, I could have sold the plane and ended up out of pocket 10k or so.

Before flight training I had a higher end sales job, which didn't really care about my degree, I was making a little shy of 60k a year, which wasn't bad for a kid, I could have stayed there and made more, just wasn't what I wanted to spend my work days doing.

 

[overdrive148]

With the feminine society remark, I'm talking how some folks look down on any profession that is outside of the soft shoed office types.

I don't think you're stuck in fast food if you don't have a degree, that's some college advertisement BS.

I know skydive instructors that make nearly 100k a year

Quite a few folks can get into construction with zero experience and work their way up quickly, starting their own companies and making very good money.

There are plenty of places to make great money without a degree, keep in mind colleges and universities are a business.

After I got my CPL my first job was just over 30k housing and utilities provided.

I spent something like 30-40k for all my training, I ended up with my own plane which I built hours in, I could have sold the plane and ended up out of pocket 10k or so.

Before flight training I had a higher end sales job, which didn't really care about my degree, I was making a little shy of 60k a year, which wasn't bad for a kid, I could have stayed there and made more, just wasn't what I wanted to spend my work days doing.

How did you land the sales job like that with no experience? The only reason I got my sales job was knowing a guy from class, I was paid hourly and my boss didn't even make 60k a year and he was the only sales guy in the entire company.

Talking from experience on applying for jobs in OKC at least, not many companies are hiring without experience or a degree or both that isn't food service or retail. Even Fish and Wildlife pilots need to have degrees related to wildlife to get hired, I talked to a guy who was working for them a couple weeks ago.

 

[James331]

Found it in the paper, showed up and shook hands, came back for a few other interviews, got the job.

It was minumum wage or commissions, never really asked what minumum wage was at the time.

It's not that hard to land a job. Currently I work one week on, one week off, ice been thinking of getting my realestste license online and getting into realestste part time.

 

[Henning]

A degree doesn't give you skills

Experience gives you skills, sitting through a "safety class" checks a box and MAYBE gives you some knowledge.

This is the reason many employers much rather have someone with X years in the industry compared to some kid with a degree

My degree is in absolutely nothing, I went to class, got the credits and got the paper, which is framed and now resides in storage.... somewhere.



He would have been better off spending that ERU money going to a trade school for a fall back, becoming a certified welder or electrician will make far more ROI than most any BS degree, or learn roofing, dry wall and overall construction.

Add some business sense to that and start your own little company and now you're easily into the six figure range.

Welding and fabrication have always been good fall back jobs for me to pick up good money quick.

 

[James331]

Here's another thought from Mike Rowes FB, made be think of the comment about not being able to go anywhere without a degree.

Off The Wall

I sat down a few minutes ago to write something whimsical and amusing about Valentines Day, but got distracted by the rich tapestry of random musings filling my wall. This one jumped out. It’s not so much whimsical or amusing, but it made feel good about our efforts with mikeroweWORKS. On the one hand, it’s a short thank-you note from an Englishman who likes watching Dirty Jobs on the telly. On the other hand, it’s a story about real life, hard work, true love, alternative education, and skilled labor - in barely 400 words. In other words, a pithy valentine to the stuff that really matters, from a guy who came across the sea, looking for his piece of The American Dream.
Happy Valentines Day.

Matthew Stretton writes:

Hi Mike

I'm an English man living in America, El Paso Texas to be precise. Met my now wife 9 years ago playing video games online. That's its own story. My main reason for this post though is to thank you.

I grew up in a working class family. My dad was a mechanic, my Mom was just that, a stay at home mom. I wanted to be like my dad. My fascination with internal combustion was almost fanatical.

At 17, I crossed paths with the lady who would become my wife. At 21, I made the biggest decision of my life, I moved across the Atlantic to start a new life in the USA.

Once I acquired my green card, I began my pursuit of a four-year degree. Thinking that was what needed to be done. After getting my associates though, I hit a rut. I wasn't enjoying school. I thought my love of internal combustion would be perfect for mechanical engineering, but that was just not to be.

Then I discovered Dirty Jobs, and started following the work you were doing in regards to the skills gap. It struck a chord with me, but I felt anything less than a college degree would leave a sour taste in my wife's mouth. So I switched to a math major, and again, after a few semesters I was back in that same rut. I sat down with my wife and we talked about another direction. She was very supportive and pushed me to look deeper into skilled labor.

March 10th I will be starting a 4 year apprenticeship with the Electric Company to become an over head line worker. So in short Mike, thank you. Had it not been for dirty jobs and my introduction to the work you are doing, I would likely be in a classroom, depressed and dreading each day. Why? Because I wouldn't have known about the demand for skilled labor.

My message for people out there is this - don't let the pressure of society drag you into a four-year degree. It's not the only option. Companies out there are willing to pay you to learn a useful skill - rather than you paying an institution a fortune to learn from them. All it takes is looking, and right now you won't be looking long.

Keep up the good work Mike. Again thank you for igniting the spark in me. I'm much happier now than when I was in school. All the best from El Paso.

Matthew

Another job not requiring a degree, actually quite a few jobs, look at working for Boeing.

 

[overdrive148]

Found it in the paper, showed up and shook hands, came back for a few other interviews, got the job.

It was minumum wage or commissions, never really asked what minumum wage was at the time.

It's not that hard to land a job. Currently I work one week on, one week off, ice been thinking of getting my realestste license online and getting into realestste part time.

Sales Trainee - Sysco Oklahoma (Lawton, OK)
www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=1d2abf34859a5a75

Qualifications: Basic Requirements:

• High school diploma or general education degree or 5 yrs foodservice distribution sales experience
• 6 months of sales, and/or chef/restaurant management experience, and/or related (Business, Sales, Marketing, Hospitality; or Culinary Arts) degree

Preferred Requirements:

• Bachelor's Degree in Business, Sales, Marketing, Hospitality or Culinary Arts
• 1 year of outside foodservice sales experience
• Restaurant Management/chef experience

Entry-Level Outside Sales Representative
www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=21e46d31a7311d51

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE

• Minimum of a Bachelor's Degree from an accredited University, preferably in Sales, Marketing or Risk Management, or a combination of education and experience equivalent to a Bachelor's Degree.

Sales Representative - Uniform
www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=1c96f1c1f03db836

Qualifications:

• High School Diploma or GED Required, Bachelor's Degree preferred
• Minimum of 1 year outside sales experience or successful completion of a Cintas sales training program required
• New business to business [B2B] sales experience preferred

That's just off the first page of Indeed that shows up for me, I searched "entry level sales" in OKC. Entry level my. Not nearly as easy to find a good job and actually get into it here in OKC. I've been advised to actually take my 4 year degree off my resume to be able to compete with people for lower level jobs because they won't hire people who are educated or likely to move to a better job. How asinine is that?

Hell, even Hobby Lobby's secretary position is asking for 1-2 years of experience with entry-level in the title of the job.

//edit
I get a list of jobs every few weeks from ERAU (specifically from Boeing among others) showing jobs for alumni to work for them. Almost all of them are engineering or maintenance or pilot III/IV which is way, way outside my skill range. The engineering requires a degree, the maintenance requires an A&P.

 

[denverpilot]

Quite a few folks can get into construction with zero experience and work their way up quickly, starting their own companies and making very good money.

Cousin doing this. He spent a few years apprenticing under a guy who did high end remodeling as a carpenter and now has his own business specializing in fixing homeowner's screwups. He's making real money doing it too.

Husband screws up home project. Calls him when wife loses her mind that he messed up "her" house.

 

[James331]

Never been a fan of indeed.

Honestly go meet and greet, if you dress well and have a good personality you'll probably get hired. SELL yourself.

Look into selling something you know about.

News papers and craigslist, word of mouth, local papers etc.

Go sell cars, get a realestate license online and get on with someone, ain't rocket surgery.

https://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/sls/4888861836.html

https://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/sls/4889382520.html

Cousin doing this. He spent a few years apprenticing under a guy who did high end remodeling as a carpenter and now has his own business specializing in fixing homeowner's screwups. He's making real money doing it too.

Husband screws up home project. Calls him when wife loses her mind that he messed up "her" house.

Bingo

Guessing he was also getting paid while he was learning the trade too

 

[denverpilot]

Never been a fan of indeed.



Honestly go meet and greet, if you dress well and have a good personality you'll probably get hired. SELL yourself.



Look into selling something you know about.



News papers and craigslist, word of mouth, local papers etc.



Go sell cars, get a realestate license online and get on with someone, ain't rocket surgery.



https://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/sls/4888861836.html



https://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/sls/4889382520.html







Bingo



Guessing he was also getting paid while he was learning the trade too

Yup. He's a bit of a "bad boy", has had some minor touches with law enforcement, etc. He doesn't balk at making a little fun of his customers (but he does understand not to drive them off with it) as he gets the story and then gets to work. He even has sweatshirts that make fun of people trying to fix things before they call a pro carpenter.

We've seen some of his work. If he didn't live so far away I'd have him work on some stuff at our place. And happily pay whatever he's charging. He's good. He also has a really good eye for seeing stuff wrong that most folks don't see. The time spent apprenticing in high end houses owned by really anal owners sharpened that skill. He doesn't miss much.

 

[Henning]

I sometimes get a hundred resumes a day, usually the ones that get hired are the ones that walk the docks.

 

[ktup-flyer]

Do what you are passionate about. I tried the college thing and hated every minute of it. Working on my PPL/CPL now.

 

[dispatcher]

One thing you might also consider, if you want to be home every night, is an Aircraft Dispatcher. As a dispatcher at an FAR 121 air carrier, you share operational control with the captain of the flight, you create the flight plan (fuel, route, alternates, etc), and once they are airborne, you perform flight watch and let the crew know if the changing wx/notams will create a problem with the safe continuation of the flight.

At my little carrier, I also train our dispatchers so I am a staff dispatcher - I dont work a desk regularly, but I do every now and then to maintain currency. I teach international, aircraft systems, and ETOPS. I'm also a member of a couple of industry liaison groups with the FAA.

And did I mention jumpseating? Not only are you required to jumpseat annually to maintain currency, but by being enrolled in CASS, I can walkup and catch a ride in nearly any 121 flight deck, subject to Captain's discretion of course. Also, since I am international at work, I have to jumpseat internationally to maintain my qualification (this year's trip will be to India and Malaysia, just cuz). I've been around the world three times for work, and all on the company dime, and all from the JS on a B777 or an MD11. I have 875 flight hours in my JS logbook, all from the Flight Deck Jumpseat.

The only piece of paper (plastic actually) I am required to hold is my Aircraft Dispatcher certificate, and a passport for overseas jumpseating.

So, if staying home seems nice, especially if you have or want a family, consider Dispatching. Once you have your ticket, Regional Airlines are always hiring off the street, and are a good place to get a couple of years experience before you are eligible to work at the National, Worldwide Charter or Major carriers. I also highly recommend a year or two at a scumbag nonscheduled/charter airline working charter flights all over the world. That experience cant be beat.

 

[AggieMike88]

My biggest bit of advice is to try out college and ROTC as soon as you can after graduation.

Building on this... Texas A&M and the Fightin' Texas Aggie Corps of Cadets is an excellent option for this route... Lots of positives here.... Great college with lots of top degree options. Great ROTC (all major branches) with lots of opportunity to network and get connected with the right folks for future advancement.... Lots of extra curricular activities that have a military benefit (Fish Drill Team, Ross Volunteers) to help get you noticed once commissioned... and each year A&M commissions nearly as many officers as the major academy's such as West Point, Annapolis, and Colorado Springs.

Aviation wise, Easterwood Field (KCLL) is close to campus and might provide lots of opportunity to connect with an FBO for employment. And there is a student flying club that has aircraft for rent at a very competitive rate.

So if you want to go the collegiate ROTC route, take a good look at Texas A&M.

 

[narchee]

I also wouldn't waste time with a generic arts degree. Getting a degree to check a box sounds like an enormous waste of time. In fact going into a career that accepts you checking a box with a generic arts degree sounds scary to me because that means you're going to have a lot of competition as countless others go that easy route as well.

 

[James331]

I also wouldn't waste time with a generic arts degree. Getting a degree to check a box sounds like an enormous waste of time. In fact going into a career that accepts you checking a box with a generic arts degree sounds scary to me because that means you're going to have a lot of competition as countless others go that easy route as well.

No.

That's not why I got hired, I was hired based off my experience, my hours, and my licenses.

The company did a full background check, verified all my past employers, criminal check, drug test, PRIA check, and so on, didn't ask about my degree though.

I probably could have said I have a BS in math for all they cared.

Once you are a grown up less and less people care about where you went to school and what classes you sat through. The emphasis moves to what you've done.

 

[RotorAndWing]

I sometimes get a hundred resumes a day, usually the ones that get hired are the ones that walk the docks.

Must be high demand for people to spend all day pontificating on the Internet.

 

[Henning]

Must be high demand for people to spend all day pontificating on the Internet.

No, there's a high demand for jobs on luxury yachts.

 

[hindsight2020]

You gotta pick something you will find employment in. "Follow your dreams" etc is nice but you gotta keep the lights on. A few years later, support a family, and send the kids to college. Chasing that airline job, I don't know about that.

The following fields will be BOOMING for a very long time, try to find an aviation application within them or think about aviation as a serious hobby, and volunteer at airshows, CAP, etc etc.

Medical Field, doctor, physician assistant. You can become an FAA AME in addition to your primary doctor practice

Mechanical/Electrical Engineering

Computer Science/IT Security

Finance/Accounting - in bad economy, people want to keep their money. In a good economy, people want to keep their money. In either economy, nobody wants to have tax exposure

Air Traffic Controller - very difficult to get into, but take a hard look at this also. Federal benefits, 100K+ a year, and you can speak at local pilot meetings, airshows, etc to your hearts content and stay involved.

Good Luck

Honest question. Are you employed in any of the fields you recommended? If not, are you a professional pilot? If so, how do you reconcile that disparity?

For full disclosure I'm a pro pilot. At any rate, I just hear that wisdom from a lot of professional pilots and it seems hollow. To quote Rounders: "He sees all the angles, but he doesn't have the balls to play one". Not picking on you personally, just highlighting the fallacy of the "backup value degree".

I have two degrees in aerospace engineering and at this juncture in my life, that and a buck twenty gets me a cup of coffee. Knowing what I know now, I would have not continued my studies in engineering. I'd never have the tolerance for the job and I did well academically mind you. It'd be incredibly dishonest of me to suggest those career paths when I've yet to display the willingness to do it myself. To be clear, engineering doesn't pay all that well, in my cursory affiliation with professional peers of my former formal training. Even mainline FOs blow them out the water every day and twice on sunday on the pay and retirement. That's terrible, considering how academically treacherous it is to become an AE/ME/EE for the median.

At any rate, just sayin'.

 

[James331]

Must be high demand for people to spend all day pontificating on the Internet.

Rotor, as a professional pilot why don't you give some sage advice to the OP, instead of picking at the statements of others.








Henning has a point that is hard to argue, a point I agree with, face to face lands more jobs than bulk mailing CVs and playing on indeed.

 

[narchee]

No.

That's not why I got hired, I was hired based off my experience, my hours, and my licenses.

The company did a full background check, verified all my past employers, criminal check, drug test, PRIA check, and so on, didn't ask about my degree though.

I probably could have said I have a BS in math for all they cared.

Once you are a grown up less and less people care about where you went to school and what classes you sat through. The emphasis moves to what you've done.

It depends what your career is. I understand you're talking about aviation and the OP as well. However, in case the aviation thing doesn't work out like it has for you, then the OP should, in my opinion, consider doing a degree in something useful. You wouldn't want a surgeon to operate on you if they hadn't gone to a good school at some point as an extreme example. If the surgeon says "Hey, I barely survived high school but I'm real smart and have done this a bunch of times before so don't worry", would you go ahead with the surgery? Of course not. Experience is essential, yes, but you have to build it on a good base for some careers.

 

[Blueangel]

Get a business degree from an aviation focused university like Embrey Riddle then you have options and the first 2 years of college are general classes anyways so you have time to determine the best path. The business side of aviation pays well such as sales, insurance and financing and you still get to fly cool stuff.

 

[narchee]

I have two degrees in aerospace engineering and at this juncture in my life, that and a buck twenty gets me a cup of coffee. Knowing what I know now, I would have not continued my studies in engineering.

Well that's not really a backup degree. A backup degree would be in something different. I don't think there are a lot of opportunities for aerospace engineers. In my business we hire electrical, mechanical, optical and software engineers because we develop hardware devices with a large software component. Optical engineering is pretty specialized with not a lot of jobs so I wouldn't recommend that. Mechanical and electrical engineers enjoy large salaries if they are any good and we feel that pain every time we hire because we have to pay those salaries. Someone with a degree from a good college and lets say 5 years of experience is into six figures if they are good at what they do. On the software side we look for developers with lots of 3D experience which requires a decent level of math and knowledge of advanced algorithms that you can't just get easily self teaching. They are in high demand and earn even more. You want a good backup degree? In my opinion mechanical or electrical engineering. You can always move into software later if you like and you make yourself a lot more marketable by having a solid EE or ME engineering background because it helps connect you to the real world (which is a big problem with some software developers). A bit of thread drift but hopefully will help someone reading this and starting out. A good job with a good salary lets you buy some cool toys for your hobbies.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Rotor, as a professional pilot why don't you give some sage advice to the OP, instead of picking at the statements of others.

I've offered advice about my career on this forum. Anyone smart enough to use the search function can find tons of information. Besides, this forum is primarily hobby pilots who get their feathers ruffled at the mention of being a professional pilot.

Henning has a point that is hard to argue, a point I agree with, face to face lands more jobs than bulk mailing CVs and playing on indeed.

I find it laughable that henning claims to receive 100 resumes a day. It fits right in with the "exploding barge" story.....

 

[James331]

I've offered advice about my career on this forum. Anyone smart enough to use the search function can find tons of information. Besides, this forum is primarily hobby pilots who get their feathers ruffled at the mention of being a professional pilot.




I find it laughable that henning claims to receive 100 resumes a day. It fits right in with the "exploding barge" story.....

Fare enough