background checks for EAA Young Eagles pilots?

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lukezimmerman

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Just received this letter (see attachment) from EAA:

"Dear Young Eagles volunteers:
...
Beginning this month, EAA is introducing a Youth Protection Policy and Program that will involve all volunteers ... It will include online training and ... background check."

Is this a solution in search of a problem? It will be interesting to see what effect these "additional hoops to jump through" have on the enthusiasm of the Young Eagle pilot population. I hope it doesn't become a deterrent for many.
 
Looks like CYA for the EAA to me. Probably something the lawyers dreamed up.
 
Far too common these days. Can't even work with a church group these days without a background check. Too much invasion of privacy of the volunteers. I'll pass on helping. Too bad these kids are suffering because of parental paranoia.
 
It is the way things are today. Background checks for nearly anything. For what it's worth they told us this was coming last year at Air Venture. We've chosen to have all of members that have contact with young folks go through this process. That would include our ground volunteers and our mentors in our youth program. No one has yet balked at doing it. My entire BOD has gone through the process.
 
dell30rb said:
soon you will need an associate's degree in volunteering just to volunteer
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It's getting really bad in the Boy Scouts. You can hardly take the kids camping with out filling out mounds of paperwork. Plus god forbid if you don't have the correct adult to kid ratio. The safety rules are also getting really bad.
 
We are trying to increase the number of pilots,who fly the young Eagles. Just another hoop to jump through. I will reserve my opinion of the program,when they publish what will be required. I understand we have to protect the children.
 
When our church instituted background checks a few years ago, the message from doing so was counter to the values that a church should promote. The response that I received from church leadership was that the church's insurance carrier was insisting on the background checks, and the church didn't want to be dropped. The problem that the Catholic Church and other churches have had with abusers has generally been one of accountability, not a failure to detect.

Since that time, may states (including my home state) have tightened laws requiring background checks for workers and volunteers in certain activities involving children.

What irritates me more than the background checks are the number of adults who "feel better" because the church, school, or other organization puts folks through background checks. Background checks do nothing and mean nothing if a criminal hasn't been caught. They also do nothing to address failures of accountability within the organization. The list of pedophiles and other child abusers who haven't been caught, or have been caught after repeatedly clearing background checks for years, is endless and continues despite all of the effort put into background checks. Background checks aren't going to change that situation.


JKG
 
frfly172 said:
We are trying to increase the number of pilots,who fly the young Eagles. Just another hoop to jump through. I will reserve my opinion of the program,when they publish what will be required. I understand we have to protect the children.
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A few web pages with questions to answer and then you fill out the page for the background check.
 
EppyGA said:
A few web pages with questions to answer and then you fill out the page for the background check.
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And the EAA will have to convince me their office and contracted background check organization can be trusted with the personal information that short form asks me for. We've been through the identity theft thing here already and we're not going to do it again just so we can volunteer.
 
A friend has done YEFs, so I asked him a couple of years ago if I could do it as well, if the opportunity arose. He said "Sure!" My next inquiry was about any special training or other hoops to jump through. "Nope!" was his answer. In other words, I was quite surprised some sort of red tape wasn't required already. And now it is.
 
So a question - when does anyone think YE volunteers are going to have sufficient contact with children to be a problem? Certainly not a pilot in an airplane or volunteers on the ground.

This is beyond stupid. It's not like BSA or CAP where you have adults working extended time periods with children on a recurring basis. The only time an adult is alone with a child is in an airplane and that is hardly an environment that promotes any kind of hanky panky...hard enough between consenting adults.
 
ETres said:
A friend has done YEFs, so I asked him a couple of years ago if I could do it as well, if the opportunity arose. He said "Sure!" My next inquiry was about any special training or other hoops to jump through. "Nope!" was his answer. In other words, I was quite surprised some sort of red tape wasn't required already. And now it is.
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I was surprised too. The local guys seemed more concerned with whether you were an EAA member than your background or if the airplane was legal and airworthy.

Looks like that is about to change.
 
flyingron said:
And the EAA will have to convince me their office and contracted background check organization can be trusted with the personal information that short form asks me for. We've been through the identity theft thing here already and we're not going to do it again just so we can volunteer.
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:yeahthat:

I'm on the fence for the moment as I consider it....

And I don't think the YE management has thought this through.

1) It's going to demotivate many volunteers, thus killing the effort

2) How do they expect to enforce any of this? Deny the kid the YE benefits if he is chauffeured by a pilot who hasn't submitted his info?

3) What about the folks who show up to assist with landside ops and people herding and do so spontaneously because they like to help and didn't have anything else to do that day?
 
Could have been because of these people who were flying Young Eagles.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...harges-against-escondido-molestation-suspect/

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/08/molestation_charges_against_bo.html

http://www.twincities.com/crime/ci_24979448/ramsey-man-faces-more-charges-sexual-abuse-case

http://www.startribune.com/anoka-co...of-boys-kills-self-on-eve-of-trial/301548231/

Also, it might not be so much about what could happen in the airplane, but what might happen if the Young Eagle and the pilot develop some kind of mentoring relationship resulting from the flight.

I'm also on the fence about this. I don't fly Young Eagles, but I would not be opposed to a background check before working with young people. But then I get a background check anyway, due to my job.

On the other hand, as someone else said, most people who do this kind of thing get away with it because others don't report it or it's hard to prove, since it's the word of the victim vs. the perpetrator.
 
Everskyward said:
Could have been because of these people who were flying Young Eagles.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...harges-against-escondido-molestation-suspect/

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/08/molestation_charges_against_bo.html

http://www.twincities.com/crime/ci_24979448/ramsey-man-faces-more-charges-sexual-abuse-case

http://www.startribune.com/anoka-co...of-boys-kills-self-on-eve-of-trial/301548231/

Also, it might not be so much about what could happen in the airplane, but what might happen if the Young Eagle and the pilot develop some kind of mentoring relationship resulting from the flight.

I'm also on the fence about this. I don't fly Young Eagles, but I would not be opposed to a background check before working with young people. But then I get a background check anyway, due to my job.

On the other hand, as someone else said, most people who do this kind of thing get away with it because others don't report it or it's hard to prove, since it's the word of the victim vs. the perpetrator.
Click to expand...


Wow. Pretty much explains why the need for a change in policy...

The abuse is alleged to have taken place at Geyen's home, his cabin, a YMCA, the Blaine airport and in Geyen's Cessna 177 Cardinal airplane.

The father of two has a private pilot's license and volunteers with the Experimental Aircraft Association's Young Eagles program, which coordinates flights with volunteer pilots for young people interested in flying.

Geyen has flown with more than 100 Young Eagles.
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Looks like a needed policy change.
 
None of these particularly had anything to do with the YE program. The first took place in the person's home. The second didn't even involve the YE or children at all (the guy was just an EAA member). The last two are in fact, the same case.

I fill out a rather extensive background check (old' SF-86 and it's newer electronic equivalent which seem to be written by the same idiots who did medexpress, it smells the same), but that's the government and now isn't even seen by my local security officer. That's a far cry from giving it to some local person whose not even an EAA employee for transmittal. WHose background checking those people to find out that I am not being harmed by them?

Nope, as far as I am concerned, my participation with the YE program is over. I'll stick with volunteering with the EAA in the flight line where it is ILLEGAL for them to allow those under 18 to be by Wisconsin law. If they ever decide to stop that, I may give up on 24 years of consecutive Oshkosh shows.
 
I guess I won't be flying Young Eagles. I am too much of a Libertarian to put up with that sort of thing. I can't even go on a Sierra Club walk along the local paved river path without signing a release form.

:(
 
flyingron said:
None of these particularly had anything to do with the YE program. The first took place in the person's home. The second didn't even involve the YE or children at all (the guy was just an EAA member). The last two are in fact, the same case.
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Oops, you're right that the last two are the same case but he's the one who allegedly committed the abuse in his airplane. For the others, I don't think it makes a difference whether or not anything took place during a YE flight. The EAA has a legitimate concern about people with histories like this working with children under their auspices.
 
A sex offender could use the YE as a way to find and groom potential victims. Find one with a big interest in aviation, gain the trust of the parents, offer to take the kid flying and to the airport, and the kid becomes a victim. While probably very, very rare with YE flights, it's something to be concerned about. I've been involved in enough sex offender cases to know these sickos do whatever they can to find victims. And not all pilots are fine, upstanding citizens.
 
JB1842 said:
A sex offender could use the YE as a way to find and groom potential victims. Find one with a big interest in aviation, gain the trust of the parents, offer to take the kid flying and to the airport, and the kid becomes a victim. While probably very, very rare with YE flights, it's something to be concerned about. I've been involved in enough sex offender cases to know these sickos do whatever they can to find victims. And not all pilots are fine, upstanding citizens.
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And this is only going to help if the person was previously convicted. None of the private background companies are legally going to be able to disclose other information (such as pending arrests, previous investigations, etc... ). The EAA is not the government.

None of the cases posted above would have appeared to been caught with a preemptive invasion of privacy.

What's particularly disturbing is that the EAA background check sends you to some unidentified site with an anonymous domainsbyproxy registration. Who knows where your information is going, probably China. Even if it goes to the corporation that it claims to be (though that is not verifiable) it seems to be a shady tribal-gambling related operation in Oklahoma.
 
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flyingron said:
And this is only going to help if the person was previously convicted. None of the private background companies are legally going to be able to disclose other information (such as pending arrests, previous investigations, etc... ). The EAA is not the government.

None of the cases posted above would have appeared to been caught with a preemptive invasion of privacy.

What's particularly disturbing is that the EAA background check sends you to some unidentified site with an anonymous domainsbyproxy registration. Who knows where your information is going, probably China.
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True.
I work as a police detective, 23 years now. I've seen thousands of people's criminal records vs police records (there's a HUGE difference). If you think the background checks are for kid safety, I have some bad news for you: it's 100% for litigation purposes.
 
Can't we just make AMEs ask you if you are a pedo as a part of the medical certification process? Then everyone who gets a medical will have already been cleared as good to go.
 
PPC1052 said:
Can't we just make AMEs ask you if you are a pedo as a part of the medical certification process? Then everyone who gets a medical will have already been cleared as good to go.
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The TSA or their sock puppet the FAA certainly could do that with the IACRA or Medexpress filings now. I've already given them more personal information than they deserve.
 
Background checks only identify past activity, they do nothing to predict future activity.

Is it any wonder that it's harder and harder to get volunteers? Without volunteers, some politician decides to make it a government service.

Let me find my fiddle & Nero costume.
 
I have to do it to assistant coach my son's baseball team or volunteer at his school. It isn't that predators are more common nowadays, it's just that people are more cognizant of it and more aware of the need to protect kids. It's not just a good idea. These organizations that put kids in close contact with strangers have a tremendous responsibility to make sure those kids are safe. I certainly wouldn't leave my kids alone with a stranger who had a problem with this.

Don't want to submit to the background check? Simple solution, go find your own strange kids to take on discovery flights. I'm sure it will work out well. Just introduce yourself to random folks at the FBO, "Hi, I'm a pilot who used to fly Young Eagles, but they started doing background checks, so I don't fly for them anymore. Can I take your kids for a ride?" :yikes:
 
Civil Air Patrol has been doing background checks for a very long time due to the cadet program, which includes orientation flights. They also have adult:kid ratio rules.

The CAP had me go to the local sheriff to get a fingerprint card filled out and then they submit it for a government background check.

I didn't have a problem with it.
 
wsuffa said:
Background checks only identify past activity, they do nothing to predict future activity.
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So it won't catch all of the scumbags looking to prey on kids, only some of them. If there was a 100% solution, I'm sure they would deploy that instead. But there isn't.
 
You can count me out of all future Young Eagle Flights. It is not what they want to do, it is how they do it.

If I could just get one background check and then carry a card in my wallet that would be OK. It could be as secure as my drivers license with a picture.

I used to volunteer at a local high school, giving a seminar each year about what it is like to run a real business. One day I got a phone call requesting I meet with the teacher the day before. We met and when I got home I realized that I had been on school property with a gun in my truck. I was a felon, not caught but still I had committed a felony. So that was the end of that.

The Boy Scouts have good policies in place, on airplane flights they must depart and land at the same airport. On the ground always "double deep" leadership.

The parents need to just take a little interest in their kids.

Life is a barrel of fun.

Ken
 
We have an airport here in Georgia that has a very active youth program with youth learning building skills working on restorations. They recently started background checks on their mentor group and had to ask someone to leave based on those checks.

We have a similar program and have a group of youth that meet on Saturdays and other youth programs and have made it clear that one adult cannot be with the youth, there always have to be at least two.

I know most of us have four or more place airplanes, but we have some YE pilots that do not which places them in the airplane alone with a young person.

I participate in a mentoring program in the local school system and went through a check to be a part of that. Everyone will certainly make up their own minds on this. To my knowledge i've not had a YE pilot balk at this yet.
 
So, the fear of litigation obviates the need for the EAA to be responsible to protecting the privacy of the volunteers. I guess the risk of being sued in the remote case of a child molestation is a lot bigger concern than the risk of them being sued when someone steals my identity from their fly-by-night, unidentified background check site.
 
I've done the CAP background check as well, submitting fingerprints at local police. No problem with that.

This one from EAA is odd though, the requirement for SSN is not needed for a check. I do them whenever I interview prospective employees and contractors, and I never needed their SSN to gather pertinent information.

Then you read the new policies. The one about no photography without parent permission gets me. Now we're supposed to police people on the ramp with cell phone cameras?

This was not thought out well at all.
 
Everskyward said:
Could have been because of these people who were flying Young Eagles.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...harges-against-escondido-molestation-suspect/

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/08/molestation_charges_against_bo.html

http://www.twincities.com/crime/ci_24979448/ramsey-man-faces-more-charges-sexual-abuse-case

http://www.startribune.com/anoka-co...of-boys-kills-self-on-eve-of-trial/301548231/

Also, it might not be so much about what could happen in the airplane, but what might happen if the Young Eagle and the pilot develop some kind of mentoring relationship resulting from the flight.

I'm also on the fence about this. I don't fly Young Eagles, but I would not be opposed to a background check before working with young people. But then I get a background check anyway, due to my job.

On the other hand, as someone else said, most people who do this kind of thing get away with it because others don't report it or it's hard to prove, since it's the word of the victim vs. the perpetrator.
Click to expand...

I dont see how any of these cases could have been prevented with a background check. They were all first arrests.
 
weilke said:
I dont see how any of these cases could have been prevented with a background check. They were all first arrests.
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They could theoretically fly YEs again though, except the guy who committed suicide.
 
I have been vetted by the boy scouts, girl scouts, CAP, the ND attorney general, the FAA, TSA, CBP, IA dept of health and the MN dept of health. One more wont make a difference.
 
flyingron said:
And this is only going to help if the person was previously convicted. None of the private background companies are legally going to be able to disclose other information (such as pending arrests, previous investigations, etc... ). The EAA is not the government.

None of the cases posted above would have appeared to been caught with a preemptive invasion of privacy.

What's particularly disturbing is that the EAA background check sends you to some unidentified site with an anonymous domainsbyproxy registration. Who knows where your information is going, probably China. Even if it goes to the corporation that it claims to be (though that is not verifiable) it seems to be a shady tribal-gambling related operation in Oklahoma.
Click to expand...

It could scare off the sex offenders from YE if they know they are under more scrutiny. I would like to know what EAA means by background check, though. Is it a 5 minutes criminal record search, or is it more involved.
 
Everskyward said:
They could theoretically fly YEs again though, except the guy who committed suicide.
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Not really because their EAA chapters canned them after their very public arrests. Background checks help if someone floats around and manages to hide a history of bad behavior in the past. Didn't apply to any of these.
 
weilke said:
Not really because their EAA chapters canned them after their very public arrests. Background checks help if someone floats around and manages to hide a history of bad behavior in the past. Didn't apply to any of these.
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They could always move to another part of the country where they would be unknown to the local chapter. Besides, we are only talking about these arrests which were tied to people who had flown YEs. There are plenty of other offenders who might have not had the publicity.
 
Everskyward said:
They could always move to another part of the country where they would be unknown to the local chapter. Besides, we are only talking about these arrests which were tied to people who had flown YEs. There are plenty of other offenders who might have not had the publicity.
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Right, but those are 'could' scenarios, not actual events.

EAA provides insurance foe the YE program. I bet this is insurance lawyer driven. They think in 'could' scenarios a lot.
 
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