Avionics advice?

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Brandon Wyant

Filing Flight Plan
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Brandon12313
Hi All. I am looking at buying a Baron 55 or Piper Seminole. I will be using it for X-country from Omaha to Cleveland every week as well as using it for time building, multi-engine, and ifr training. I am new to aviation and am having a hard time coming up with a list of avionics/other equipment (ie de-icing boots) that I am needing/wanting. Does anyone know of good resources to get an idea? What would you feel is necessary to have?
 
You need to define a budget for a more accurate recommendations
 
How new to aviation are you? I ask because the twin engine discussion is one of those things that can be you don't know what you don't know. Maintenance and insurance are the 2 big ones.
 
You’re starting your investigation and assessment. Part of that will be flying in and behind various equipment. A really good resource would be flying a few cross countries using IFR with another pilot or with a CFI with various equipped rentals. Start your instrument rating.

Otherwise, read and watch vids, and ask on forums like you’re doing.

Minimum is a good autopilot (new is good, old may also be OK) and a newer GPS navigator (Garmin or Avidyne).

Don’t buy a project plane. You can buy an older functional one and take lessons and upgrade as needed, but you’ll be in the shop for a while and grounded for far too long. If you want to fly now, buy the best.
 
Thank you for your response! The flight school I am currently going to for my PPL only has 150s and 172s, do you think an IFR cross country would translate well in terms of the equipment?

I was first leaning towards buying a project plane but I soon realized that I would be going down a never ending rabbit hole of research, money and time.
 
Racerx said:
How new to aviation are you? I ask because the twin engine discussion is one of those things that can be you don't know what you don't know. Maintenance and insurance are the 2 big ones.
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I currently have 20 hours in a 172 so pretty green. If you have any advice for me, I’d be happy to hear it. I am hoping to turn it into a positive investment by renting it out.
 
If you don't even have your PPL then no insurance company will write you a policy for a multi. Go buy a cheap time builder to time build ("cheap" as in holds value, low mx, etc.) Then maybe once you have 250hrs think about buying a multi.
 
frfly172 said:
You need to define a budget for a more accurate recommendations
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I would like to stick around the 100k mark but that can certainly go up. I am mostly looking for decent/good IFR avionics and the ability to fly into as many flight conditions as possible (safely). I am not looking for a glass cockpit though.
 
wheaties said:
If you don't even have your PPL then no insurance company will write you a policy for a multi. Go buy a cheap time builder to time build ("cheap" as in holds value, low mx, etc.) Then maybe once you have 250hrs think about buying a multi.
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I have already spoken to the insurance company I use for everything as that was an initial concern of mine and they didn’t have a problem with insuring me on it.
 
Brandon Wyant said:
I have already spoken to the insurance company I use for everything as that was an initial concern of mine and they didn’t have a problem with insuring me on it.
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Yeah...but at a 10k premium?
 
Unless you have $$ coming out of your ears, I’d reconsider buying the twin. Any plane will cost $$, obviously.

If you want, buy a single, you can rent to get the handful of twin hours you may need. If going towards a piloting career, the usual path is to get a CFI then teach somewhere.
 
If your budget is 100k - or even a little more: be realistic what you can expect for your money in today‘s market. In this segment there is not a lot to choose from. It will not buy you the finest and most reliable avionics or low time engines. It will be some sort of project. Rule of thumb: ownership is in most case not significant cheaper than a rental. So if 300 or 400 $/h is a challenging number for your wallet - forget it.

I am under the impression that your current expectations will not match with reality. There is a reason why the majority of students train in C152 / 172 or PA28‘s for the PPL and IR. ATP, FIT, Embry-Riddle and all other pilot mills Imam aware of are walking this path. I strongly recommend to gain some experience first prior starting weekly XC trips to Cleveland under rough weather conditions.
 
Brandon Wyant said:
Hi All. I am looking at buying a Baron 55 or Piper Seminole. I will be using it for X-country from Omaha to Cleveland every week as well as using it for time building, multi-engine, and ifr training. I am new to aviation and am having a hard time coming up with a list of avionics/other equipment (ie de-icing boots) that I am needing/wanting. Does anyone know of good resources to get an idea? What would you feel is necessary to have?
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New to aviation and you are starting with a Baron 55. Why not a Learjet? MU2? F104 Starfighter? Take the airlines, you will live longer.
 
Brandon Wyant said:
…What would you feel is necessary to have?
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A TOMATO FLAMES FLAPS GRABCARD

I think that more than covers the minimum necessary but there may be some additional things on the TCDS too.
 
Brandon Wyant said:
Hi All. I am looking at buying a Baron 55 or Piper Seminole.
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Others are providing useful advice on all the other aspects of your question, but I have wonder about this - you've (apparently) narrowed it down to a Baron 55 or a Seminole? Those aren't even in the same class other than having four seats. A Baron is a fine traveling machine. A Seminole is a perfectly fine trainer (I used to operate one for that purpose) but I don't know of anybody who has actually bought one as their personal traveling airplane (I'm sure there are a few but that's got to be pretty rare). There are far better, faster, more efficient airplanes to travel in than a Seminole.

Perhaps you meant Seneca? Those are good traveling airplanes (depending on the exact model) in roughly the same class as the Baron.
 
Brandon Wyant said:
Hi All. I am looking at buying a Baron 55 or Piper Seminole. I will be using it for X-country from Omaha to Cleveland every week as well as using it for time building, multi-engine, and ifr training. I am new to aviation and am having a hard time coming up with a list of avionics/other equipment (ie de-icing boots) that I am needing/wanting. Does anyone know of good resources to get an idea? What would you feel is necessary to have?
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I'd say the experience needed to know what you need is necessary to know what you need. Sounds dumb, but what I mean is if you're asking this question, you're not ready yet.
 
Morgan3820 said:
New to aviation and you are starting with a Baron 55. Why not a Learjet? MU2? F104 Starfighter? Take the airlines, you will live longer.
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The airlines…And in the end, cheaper and safer. There are times that you cannot fly yourself, regardless of the aircraft, unless it’s a jet or turboprop.
 
My thoughts:
1) If this is to be used for your PPL, then invest in something to make the PPL easier to obtain. While doable, getting a PPL in a complex / high performance aircraft is not a way to do it quickly as you will be adding unneeded complexity to the task. I'd suggest buying a 172 or a Cherokee. Cheaper, simple to operate, will meet all requirements of getting you through the PPL and probably the Instrument Rating. Also, the reality is that as you learn you WILL make mistakes, you will make a few rough landings, etc. Things that are better done to a cheaper plane than an expensive one. You could learn to drive in a Ferrari, for example, but usually better to learn in a little Honda Civic. Not as glamorous, but more likely to lead to successfully getting a driver's license.

2) Also, you mentioned leasing it back to a flight school, or renting it out. If you're looking at a lease back, I am confident that you'll get more return from a simple aircraft than a more complex one. If you are thinking you'll rent it out as an individual, then I think you may want to do some more research on what is required to do this, both from an insurance and a maintenance point of view.

Anyway, good luck, let us know how you decide to proceed.
 
Hmmm,
All due respect here so don't get all upset but as a 20 hr student you don't need to be looking at buying a baron or a twin of any kind. You're just going to get yourself killed, especially IFR on a weekly "have to go" trip.
This has bad idea all over it, like very very bad idea. This is how FAA informational videos start. (hint: they end with a fireball)

Whoever you normally use for insurance doesn't insure planes most likely, there are specific aviation insurance companies and they are all very unlikely (impossible probably) to insure you in a twin, just too much liability.


Get your PPL, then get your IFR. Then when you know what you're doing (a little bit at least) you'll know what you want.
 
Brandon Wyant said:
I would like to stick around the 100k mark but that can certainly go up. I am mostly looking for decent/good IFR avionics and the ability to fly into as many flight conditions as possible (safely). I am not looking for a glass cockpit though.
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Assuming you can get a twin for that money (not likely in the current market), with your weekly trip between Omaha and Cleveland you should expect to spend north of $50K just operating that twin each year. Are you ready for that?

I don't mean to be a downer - I am happy for everyone who joins the aviation family and is excited to start flying. But your proposed approach is skipping a few steps which normally provide valuable learning experiences, and we all just want to make sure you understand what you are getting into.

It would also be wise to hire a professional pilot or CFI/MEI to fly with you for the first few months. The insurance company may require this, but it's a good idea even if they don't.

- Martin
 
The twin you buy for under $100K will EAT you alive in maintenance. You can buy some nice twins for under $200K. But think about it, why are twins available for under $200K, when people are paying much more for high performance singles.

Start with fuel. My Mooney 252 does 175 knots on 13.5 gallons per hour at 13,000 (faster if I go higher). A Baron has bigger engines, so higher fuel flow, TIMES TWO. So, 40 gallons per hour, at $7 per gallon, you are looking at close to $300 per hour for fuel alone. Engine overhauls are running over $60K, EACH, and a long wait. Factory reman or new are shorter wait, but also over $80K.

Did you ask your insurance company what the premium would be? Yes, they would be happy to insure you, as someone mentioned, at $10K per year.

At your budget, you will also not be getting a late model high performance single. But you can get one. Early Bonanza, early Mooney, middle Piper Arrow. But nothing with known icing systems.

But a high performance single would be insurable and maintainable.
 
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